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-- Need new DVS Interface, suggestions please.
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Posted by SynthNinja on Aug-03-2018 18:49:

Need new DVS Interface, suggestions please.

I have a subscription to Cross DVS and still have the time code vinyl. I was thinking of getting an RME-RPM for timecode vinyl and I was wondering if those old chip sets are still better than whats inside lets say a traktor audiodj 6 for D/A conversion.



Or should I bit the bullet and get the traktor interface.


Posted by DJ RANN on Aug-05-2018 02:35:

Even old RME interfaces are going to sound better than anything that NI, Serato or Dennon will ever put out as an interface.

However, fuck all those options; Get the Phase controller system when it comes out. No reliance on timecode, just platter position and then you can use any DAC you want for output.


Posted by SynthNinja on Aug-05-2018 03:10:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
Even old RME interfaces are going to sound better than anything that NI, Serato or Dennon will ever put out as an interface.

However, fuck all those options; Get the Phase controller system when it comes out. No reliance on timecode, just platter position and then you can use any DAC you want for output.



When is the release date?


Posted by DJ RANN on Aug-06-2018 02:22:

September. One month to go.

As long as there isn't a fuckup with them (like the have problems holding locked pitch but they've assured me not), they are going to make the entire DVS market redundant.


Posted by miamitranceman on Aug-14-2018 03:20:

Youíve been tracking this for some time. Looking forward to your hands on impressions.

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
September. One month to go.

As long as there isn't a fuckup with them (like the have problems holding locked pitch but they've assured me not), they are going to make the entire DVS market redundant.


Posted by DJ RANN on Aug-14-2018 17:50:

Yeah, cannot wait. I really hope it does what they say and all the vids show. I'll finally have a solution for digital and vinyl in one small box.


Posted by DJ RANN on Sep-12-2018 20:27:

Oh for fucks sake, Phase have just pushed back the release until late November

https://www.facebook.com/notes/phas...ejourneyarticle

Apparently, it's for improvements which they've detailed but it's also closer to xmas. There's going to be a lot of pissed people out there who've had deposits down since june.....


Posted by SynthNinja on Sep-13-2018 01:23:

Dang it.


Posted by Freak on Sep-13-2018 17:56:

As interesting and intriguing as it is, I am struggling to see the advantages of phase.

You still have to connect stuff, on top of your existing DVS. More links in the chain = more potential for problems. It also costs $350 on top of your DVS software & hardware.


Battery life is a concern - will it last a full club night? - as is interference with the communication. I still don't quite trust a tablet communicating wirelessly to a midas, let alone something like this.
For all their faults, serato and traktor have come on leaps and bounds and are now pretty reliable. You can also have a back up in the form of switching to HID mode controlled by a CDJ should a turntable setup go wrong in some way.


The only thing it eliminates is the stylus and potential for feedback - which might be a good thing in some places which don't know how to set up turntables properly, but if the turntables pitch is borked anyway, then this won't eliminate that issue.

It also eliminates absolute mode, leaving you stuck with relative mode only, which might not work for some people. Skipping isn't an issue in relative mode with serato/traktor as it stands anyway - only in absolute mode.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Will reserve judgement until I have tried it out.


Posted by SynthNinja on Sep-13-2018 18:22:

I think im in the same boat as Freak, I do need a soundcard however I have an apogee element 24 with 2 ins 2 outs for recording. My cartridges are perfectly calibrated on my GR's so if I take them off and loose contact burn in than leaving them already on, but thats not my point, why use a turntable at all if your gonna use phase, maybe the analog pitch from an mk2 has better resolution then what digital has to offer, idk, with a souncard and laptop and choice midi 14 bit usb controller wouldn't you be fine?

anyhow I like this thingamajig, been trying to get one for awhile.

http://nylonrecordings.com/2012/07/...n-pitch-faders/





- Two faders (14-bit resolution), 2 rotary pots, 8 buttons.
- All faders/pots are studio grade Bourns, extreme high-quality.
- 2 port expansion powered/non-powered usb integrated hub.
- 12-gauge aluminum super durable construction.

Class compliant freely mappable to any software.

There are many more pics on the website: xfxaudio.com. Feel free to ask any questions, but those are the key points


Posted by DJ RANN on Sep-17-2018 22:03:

quote:
Originally posted by Freak
As interesting and intriguing as it is, I am struggling to see the advantages of phase.

You still have to connect stuff, on top of your existing DVS. More links in the chain = more potential for problems. It also costs $350 on top of your DVS software & hardware.


Battery life is a concern - will it last a full club night? - as is interference with the communication. I still don't quite trust a tablet communicating wirelessly to a midas, let alone something like this.
For all their faults, serato and traktor have come on leaps and bounds and are now pretty reliable. You can also have a back up in the form of switching to HID mode controlled by a CDJ should a turntable setup go wrong in some way.


The only thing it eliminates is the stylus and potential for feedback - which might be a good thing in some places which don't know how to set up turntables properly, but if the turntables pitch is borked anyway, then this won't eliminate that issue.

It also eliminates absolute mode, leaving you stuck with relative mode only, which might not work for some people. Skipping isn't an issue in relative mode with serato/traktor as it stands anyway - only in absolute mode.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Will reserve judgement until I have tried it out.


Here's the pros as I see them:

You don't need any other DVS stuff; You just plug the Phase box in to your laptop via usb and connect the outputs of the phase to the mixer.

That's it. No other hardware needed (unless you want to use your own dac for output in which case card that along too, set the outputs in software and plug that in to the ins on your mixer - it's entirely unnecessary though).

Is basically eliminates an entire set of cable plugging which is always a good thing (as you know )

Battery life - the box is USB powered so no issue there, but the with the deck sensors, they're saying 10 hours, but they sell a 4 pack so you can swap them out if needed. The box also doubles as the charging bay so I would suggest anyone using them all night, just swaps them out at say the 6 hour mark and pops those back in the charging bay. You can go on endlessly that way.

Another big thing for me is that it eliminates the fuzzy donut calibration. Gone. You just get a perfect circle - it's either there or it's off an it's not. No more fucking around with tonearm weight or needle angle etc. Switch the sensors on and that's it.

This is maybe more home DJ but one reason I hate timecode is that there's plenty of times I've wanted to mix at home and lower levels and the 1k tone (actually physically audible from the needle in the groove) drives me bonkers. It's never an issue in a club but on anything normal listening levels, it's unbearable.

Another: No needle skip. yes we all have setup methods that can avoid this but unless the deck physically gets flipped, phase can never skip.

There is the downside of no absolute mode, but honestly I'm willing to forgo that downside as I'd probably just set all cues in the silence before the first beat and drop it by hand like with vinyl. You just have to snap back to that cue if you want to drop it from the start again. Not a big deal for me.

Some have worried about interference with data transmission but apparently one of the big reasons they delayed it is that they figured out a more robust data transmission protocol with error correction so that even in harsh environments it will still perform accurately.

One thing that people were worried about was sticker drift and those that use the spindle to speed up but no phase are apparently adding magnetic stickers and a pinch mechanism to the sensors so you can still spin that way.

We'll see whether it actually performs, but for my needs, I'm a customer as just not having to use a shitty serato DAC or have a 1k tone has me already sold.


Posted by SynthNinja on Sep-18-2018 15:40:

Consider me old school but calling cartridge calibration tone arm meddling sounds like you have s some what complicated process attaching a new needle each time. Now to me needle calibration is in art in itself and choosing your dedicated tracking force after practice with all ranges in the manual including recommended is a gift that you can give yourself and will separate you from the rest. Imo this phase is like adding a CDJ on top of a 1200 with analogue pitch or if you m5g digital pitch.


Posted by DJ RANN on Sep-18-2018 22:26:

I've quite literally set up over 1000 technics and I can set up techs with a blindfold on (I've actually done it). It used to be my day job and I'm a Technics certified service engineer.

Setting up tonearm height, weight, skip, headshell angle needles really isn't difficult, that's not the issue but honestly, I've always found DVS fiddly. Sometimes you don't get a perfect signal donut, different needles give different outputs and then there's all the pluggin which takes it toll on connectors (and I really don't want to have to try to find and solder vintage vestax RCA sockets).

For me, I want to be able to play vinyl, and then seamlessly switch to digital.

Phase allegedly does that in the path of least resistance.

No donut calibration. Only have to make sure my needles are set up for best vinyl playback. Only one set of cable to plug in to my mixer.

It just simplifies the process a little better and I don't have to deal with 1k tone, needle jump or pay $600 for a $50 soundcard.


Posted by SynthNinja on Sep-18-2018 22:41:

Right, I see, you won't need to go back In the mixer and turntable during a live show and you can use the phase in a snap.

Can you tell point out where Is the dac in the phase system gear if your not rocking your own?

Also if the circle is really that accurate and equivalent or better than perfectly calibrated needle, I'd get this in a heart beat like crazy. I need to really try it.


Posted by DJ RANN on Sep-19-2018 01:35:

The phase plugs via USB in to your laptop/computer. You then just have two RCA pairs cables that go from the output of the phase box to the inputs of your two mixer channels (one pair for each deck).

That's it. The wireless sensors send the positional data to the box, the box sends that data to the laptop, the laptop sends the manipulated audio data to the box and the box coverts that to an outpus that goes to the mixer.



And this is the donut for calibration:


Posted by SynthNinja on Sep-19-2018 02:01:

Fucking ayy...

This is def the future no doubt.

Mine.


Posted by DJ RANN on Sep-20-2018 01:30:

I'm still holding my breath to actually see if they pull it off, but if they deliver, it'll be great.

I agree with Freak that the absolute mode exclusion might be a deal breaker. I'm still perplexed as to how it will accurately track minute changes in pitch but Phase assured me that's completely nailed down, so we'll see......


Posted by SynthNinja on Sep-20-2018 04:45:

Yes...absolute mode is the buster on this.


Posted by Freak on Oct-23-2018 18:05:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_...0&v=qK_ATzpPzKM


Posted by DJ RANN on Oct-23-2018 20:20:

quote:
Originally posted by Freak
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_...0&v=qK_ATzpPzKM


ha, I saw they had some post on their IG with Jazzy but I wasn't sure what was the outcome.

Seems he's impressed. I've said form the moment this was announced that if it does what the tin says, this will do for DJ'ing is what the CDJ was 20 years ago.

The other thing I want though is a no laptop option. Something like a screen that is a virtual recordbox, just has all my tracks and I touch the track to load it up. Could be a tiny box with an LCD screen for all I care. Just not a laptop.

I heard about PIdeck and if there's integration with phase, this'll be the way to go.


Posted by Freak on Oct-24-2018 04:10:

On a related note, I have been testing the 96 further, with traktor pro 3.

You don't need any external soundcard, or any rewiring, to use timecode with it.
Plug a single USB into one of the 96s soundcards, and it will take the timecode signal from vinyl or cd, send it to traktor, then back again as audio.


Posted by DJ RANN on Oct-25-2018 01:59:

quote:
Originally posted by Freak
On a related note, I have been testing the 96 further, with traktor pro 3.

You don't need any external soundcard, or any rewiring, to use timecode with it.
Plug a single USB into one of the 96s soundcards, and it will take the timecode signal from vinyl or cd, send it to traktor, then back again as audio.


Fack. That's nice. So built in NI interface essentially. Can you put the timecode on the USB


Posted by Freak on Oct-25-2018 02:52:

Yes


Posted by miamitranceman on Oct-26-2018 21:18:

Yeah, Traktor 3 is now essentially ďuntetheredĒ.

I want to upgrade to 3 but my MacBook Pro I use for djing is one gen too old to upgrade to the oldest MacOS that will run 3. Given I have an Ecler Evo 5 which required FireWire, Iím in a sort of upgrade pickle as any new laptop will need, if Iím reading correctly, a thunderbolt port., and those are not yet that cheap.

So Iíll be holding off on the upgrade for now I think.


Posted by DJ RANN on Nov-02-2018 00:40:

quote:
Originally posted by miamitranceman
Yeah, Traktor 3 is now essentially ďuntetheredĒ.

I want to upgrade to 3 but my MacBook Pro I use for djing is one gen too old to upgrade to the oldest MacOS that will run 3. Given I have an Ecler Evo 5 which required FireWire, Iím in a sort of upgrade pickle as any new laptop will need, if Iím reading correctly, a thunderbolt port., and those are not yet that cheap.

So Iíll be holding off on the upgrade for now I think.


yeah, this is basically NI deciding that the $400 dongle market is dead.

I had the Traktor crack (a particular version that had vulnerability bug) that allowed you to hack the hex file of Traktor to name your soundacrd as a certified device and essentially use it with any soundcard.

That was four years ago. They've seen the writing on the wall that they're never going to sell any more DVS boxes so pulled a Digidesign and made it native.

Everyone with a brain has known for years that there was nothing proprietary about the boxes from serato, NI or Stanton - it was just that these companies wanted to sell cheap soundcards for a giant markup under the guise of the being a DVS solution, rather than being a software company open to piracy, hence the dongle.

I think serato might well go under if they don't partner with Phase or get eaten by NI or something.


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