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-- The Dark Knight Rises
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Posted by WittyHandle on Jul-22-2011 06:08:

Derp, really? That's what I see him doing, just less dumbed down than any other major Hollywood projects.


Posted by Omar Little on Jul-22-2011 15:45:

7 pages about nolan and no ones mentioned memento


Posted by ReclusNdangrmnt on Jul-22-2011 15:51:

I know it was a few pages back but the thing about re-recording dialogue (It's called ADR) is true and not true. With some movies, it has to be done for one reason or another (unavoidably loud locations, special effects machinery, etc), but it is preferable to capture the dialogue on set because the performance is almost always better. Shotgun microphones (The ones they put on the ends of booms) are excellent at isolation from off-axis noise, and with big-budget projects, they are probably working on a sound stage anyways.

In this case, I'm not sure Christian Bale, who is a Method actor, would want to go back and ADR everything, but who knows

Source: I'm trying to do this shit for a living.


Posted by DJ RANN on Jul-22-2011 18:09:

quote:
Originally posted by Quazar
It's not common to re-record most or all of the dialog in a studio. If a movie has to do that, it's considered a very bad sign for the crew that made it.

I was in a recording studio once and I overheard the people that work there talking about how funny it was that the entire cast of "Skyline" had to come in and re-record dialogue for pretty much the entire movie. It sounded like it wasn't common for that to happen. And if reviews are to be believed, the people making that film had no idea what they were doing.


quote:
Originally posted by Tasty Onions
I dunno, just doesn't sound too plausible to me. I do know that almost all non-dialogue sound ("foley" work), even really tiny things like doors closing, papers being handled, people walking, etc., is dubbed in after the fact.

But I'd never heard the same about dialogue.


Fuck me, for the amount you guys talk about movies you know absolutely fuck all about production.

It's common for the majority and in many cases all of the dialogue to replaced via sound stage recording and mixed at the dub stage with the score and FX.

Only very low budget films have to rely on location recording and even
it's sometimes logistically impossible to get mics close enough to pickup dialogue without background noise (especially from crew) fucking it up.

If they just used recordings from location, why is foley used on every single film? Surely they can just use the sounds they recorded?

If anything, it's actually cheaper in the grand scheme of things to not have to worry about getting location dialogue recordings perfect and just do it all after the fact in a controlled environment (i.e. sound stage or studio).

I can tell you first hand that DR was done on all the films mentioned in this thread.

Source? I actually do this shit for a living (I'm a score engineer for hollywood composers).


Posted by srussell0018 on Jul-22-2011 18:21:







Posted by Quazar on Jul-22-2011 19:07:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
Fuck me, for the amount you guys talk about movies you know absolutely fuck all about production.

It's common for the majority and in many cases all of the dialogue to replaced via sound stage recording and mixed at the dub stage with the score and FX.

Only very low budget films have to rely on location recording and even
it's sometimes logistically impossible to get mics close enough to pickup dialogue without background noise (especially from crew) fucking it up.

If they just used recordings from location, why is foley used on every single film? Surely they can just use the sounds they recorded?

If anything, it's actually cheaper in the grand scheme of things to not have to worry about getting location dialogue recordings perfect and just do it all after the fact in a controlled environment (i.e. sound stage or studio).

I can tell you first hand that DR was done on all the films mentioned in this thread.

Source? I actually do this shit for a living (I'm a score engineer for hollywood composers).


Aren't you saying that for scenes shot on sound stages, a re-recording isn't necessary? And most of the film is shot on sound stages, right? I don't see why you're quoting me here.

Calling the actors into a recording studio to re-record all of their dialogue in a film, sound stage scenes included, is unprofessional.


Posted by srussell0018 on Jul-22-2011 19:31:

quote:
Originally posted by Quazar
Calling the actors into a recording studio to re-record all of their dialogue in a film, sound stage scenes included, is unprofessional.


No it's not. The audio of a movie is just as important as the visual aspect. Wanting the sound to be perfect in a controlled environment isn't unprofessional at all.


Posted by Quazar on Jul-22-2011 19:59:

quote:
Originally posted by srussell0018
No it's not. The audio of a movie is just as important as the visual aspect. Wanting the sound to be perfect in a controlled environment isn't unprofessional at all.

Something tells me method actors (like Bale and Ledger) would not take kindly to having to act out the entire interrogation scene, for instance, only to have to go into a recording studio 4 months later and re-do the whole thing with only their voices.


Posted by srussell0018 on Jul-22-2011 20:01:

Well it doesn't matter if that's just how things are done. Christian Bale is probably a prick about everything anyways.


Posted by DJ RANN on Jul-22-2011 20:47:

quote:
Originally posted by Quazar
Aren't you saying that for scenes shot on sound stages, a re-recording isn't necessary? And most of the film is shot on sound stages, right? I don't see why you're quoting me here.

I quoted as I'm calling out the bullshit:

quote:
Originally posted by Quazar
It's not common to re-record most or all of the dialog in a studio. If a movie has to do that, it's considered a very bad sign for the crew that made it.

Calling the actors into a recording studio to re-record all of their dialogue in a film, sound stage scenes included, is unprofessional.


It is common place, it's not "unprofessional" and it's "not a very bad sign".


Granted, if you get no usable audio from a completely soundstaged film (incredibly rare) then yes, it might be considered bad form for the crew, but that's the very rare exception, whereas doing ADR has been commonplace on films for decades, and it won't change anytime soon.

So what you said is actually bullshit, which seems mostly gleaned (according to you) from a conversation you overhead one time you were in a studio.

Think about it -

Do you have any idea how man people are on set for even a small scene? Now think about all the equipment, that all has fans to keep them cool. On a soundstage, they may keep some or all of the dialogue for certain scenes, but even then they may still do ADR just to keep continuity with the other scenes.

I'm not going to go in to detail but I've actually worked on a few Nolan films, and I can tell you he records on location just as much as some scenes warrant a soundstage.

A lot of actors actually like the fact they get to re-record their scenes (some demand it), and the rest just know it's part of the deal.

Yes, it would be great if you could record everything as you go along filming but that's not the reality or the most common moethod of working.


Posted by Quazar on Jul-22-2011 22:53:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
It is common place, it's not "unprofessional" and it's "not a very bad sign".

Granted, if you get no usable audio from a completely soundstaged film (incredibly rare) then yes, it might be considered bad form for the crew, but that's the very rare exception, whereas doing ADR has been commonplace on films for decades, and it won't change anytime soon.

So what you said is actually bullshit, which seems mostly gleaned (according to you) from a conversation you overhead one time you were in a studio.

And from what I know about television, which is admittedly different from film because of time constraints.

I'm well-aware that looping occurs, but I thought it was only on maybe 10-15% of dialogue.

You obviously know more than me on this, I'm just immensely surprised. I figured with the quality of boom mics and the rigs used on sets to capture the dialogue, that the dialogue would actually be used.

So anyway, I apologize for making "Skyline" sound like a cut-rate production because they had to re-record all of the dialogue.


Posted by DJ RANN on Jul-23-2011 02:14:

quote:
Originally posted by Quazar
And from what I know about television, which is admittedly different from film because of time constraints.

I'm well-aware that looping occurs, but I thought it was only on maybe 10-15% of dialogue.

You obviously know more than me on this, I'm just immensely surprised. I figured with the quality of boom mics and the rigs used on sets to capture the dialogue, that the dialogue would actually be used.

So anyway, I apologize for making "Skyline" sound like a cut-rate production because they had to re-record all of the dialogue.


In fairness, with TV you're right. I've worked on major weekly shows that do and do not use ADR. All the sitcoms don't really use it, but some of the thriller/dramas do at times. The lead times are way smaller (for one weekly show we mixed the score all night, deliver it in the morning at it goes live on air later that day) so that might be a reason why but also because the budgets are not as big, and they have smaller sets/soundstages to work on (often re-using the same set for whole seasons) so it's much easier to record decent dialogue with simple unobtrusive mic techniques.

Film is just a different scale altogether though.

Skyline was pretty crap though - I have no idea if the production was marred all the way through but I know the budgets were very tight on that one. I know the score composer for it - nice guy, certainly talented, but that was his first big film release.


Posted by Omar Little on Jul-23-2011 07:32:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
In fairness, with TV you're right. I've worked on major weekly shows that do and do not use ADR. All the sitcoms don't really use it, but some of the thriller/dramas do at times. The lead times are way smaller (for one weekly show we mixed the score all night, deliver it in the morning at it goes live on air later that day) so that might be a reason why but also because the budgets are not as big, and they have smaller sets/soundstages to work on (often re-using the same set for whole seasons) so it's much easier to record decent dialogue with simple unobtrusive mic techniques.

Film is just a different scale altogether though.

Skyline was pretty crap though - I have no idea if the production was marred all the way through but I know the budgets were very tight on that one. I know the score composer for it - nice guy, certainly talented, but that was his first big film release.


quote:
Originally posted by Quazar
And from what I know about television, which is admittedly different from film because of time constraints.

I'm well-aware that looping occurs, but I thought it was only on maybe 10-15% of dialogue.

You obviously know more than me on this, I'm just immensely surprised. I figured with the quality of boom mics and the rigs used on sets to capture the dialogue, that the dialogue would actually be used.

So anyway, I apologize for making "Skyline" sound like a cut-rate production because they had to re-record all of the dialogue.


quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
I quoted as I'm calling out the bullshit:



It is common place, it's not "unprofessional" and it's "not a very bad sign".


Granted, if you get no usable audio from a completely soundstaged film (incredibly rare) then yes, it might be considered bad form for the crew, but that's the very rare exception, whereas doing ADR has been commonplace on films for decades, and it won't change anytime soon.

So what you said is actually bullshit, which seems mostly gleaned (according to you) from a conversation you overhead one time you were in a studio.

Think about it -

Do you have any idea how man people are on set for even a small scene? Now think about all the equipment, that all has fans to keep them cool. On a soundstage, they may keep some or all of the dialogue for certain scenes, but even then they may still do ADR just to keep continuity with the other scenes.

I'm not going to go in to detail but I've actually worked on a few Nolan films, and I can tell you he records on location just as much as some scenes warrant a soundstage.

A lot of actors actually like the fact they get to re-record their scenes (some demand it), and the rest just know it's part of the deal.

Yes, it would be great if you could record everything as you go along filming but that's not the reality or the most common moethod of working.


quote:
Originally posted by srussell0018
Well it doesn't matter if that's just how things are done. Christian Bale is probably a prick about everything anyways.


quote:
Originally posted by Quazar
Something tells me method actors (like Bale and Ledger) would not take kindly to having to act out the entire interrogation scene, for instance, only to have to go into a recording studio 4 months later and re-do the whole thing with only their voices.


quote:
Originally posted by srussell0018
No it's not. The audio of a movie is just as important as the visual aspect. Wanting the sound to be perfect in a controlled environment isn't unprofessional at all.


quote:
Originally posted by Quazar
Aren't you saying that for scenes shot on sound stages, a re-recording isn't necessary? And most of the film is shot on sound stages, right? I don't see why you're quoting me here.

Calling the actors into a recording studio to re-record all of their dialogue in a film, sound stage scenes included, is unprofessional.



quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
Fuck me, for the amount you guys talk about movies you know absolutely fuck all about production.

It's common for the majority and in many cases all of the dialogue to replaced via sound stage recording and mixed at the dub stage with the score and FX.

Only very low budget films have to rely on location recording and even
it's sometimes logistically impossible to get mics close enough to pickup dialogue without background noise (especially from crew) fucking it up.

If they just used recordings from location, why is foley used on every single film? Surely they can just use the sounds they recorded?

If anything, it's actually cheaper in the grand scheme of things to not have to worry about getting location dialogue recordings perfect and just do it all after the fact in a controlled environment (i.e. sound stage or studio).

I can tell you first hand that DR was done on all the films mentioned in this thread.

Source? I actually do this shit for a living (I'm a score engineer for hollywood composers).


quote:
Originally posted by ReclusNdangrmnt
I know it was a few pages back but the thing about re-recording dialogue (It's called ADR) is true and not true. With some movies, it has to be done for one reason or another (unavoidably loud locations, special effects machinery, etc), but it is preferable to capture the dialogue on set because the performance is almost always better. Shotgun microphones (The ones they put on the ends of booms) are excellent at isolation from off-axis noise, and with big-budget projects, they are probably working on a sound stage anyways.

In this case, I'm not sure Christian Bale, who is a Method actor, would want to go back and ADR everything, but who knows

Source: I'm trying to do this shit for a living.















































































































































































































































































Posted by LeopoldStotch on Jul-23-2011 09:25:

i have enjoyed christopher nolan's latest movies, but i have to say 'Memento' is still his best movie, and every movie since has gone downhill on the stylistic and cinematic side. however, he knows how to produce a big budget film, so i give him credit for it.


Posted by jupiterone on Jul-23-2011 10:24:

nnnnaaaaahhhh nawwwwwwww nnaaaawhhhnnnn nhyayyyyyyyy nawwwwww bbrbrzbrbzrbbrzbbrbzbzbzrzrzrzzrrrr.......wsssshhhhhhbbrnnnnnszhhhshh. wbbbbshhhhhhhh


Posted by Blue Neptune on May-01-2012 07:09:

new trailer

im glad this is a trilogy. this seems like the perfect way to end it.


Posted by LAdazeNYnights on May-01-2012 09:35:

NOT WATCHING ANY OF THE TRAILERS

DON'T CARE BRO






BRING IT GOSPEEDGO!





I BRINGZ THE RUCKUS





TO THE LADIES

















such as the one who is asleep in my bed
while i post on TA
and listen to house music








wut




i was drinking gin and tonic before
now i am drunk
and want to be alonneeee again


Posted by itsamemario on May-01-2012 16:08:

quote:
Originally posted by Lews
Nolan usually tries too hard in his movies.


Posted by GoSpeedGo! on May-01-2012 18:55:

It's funny how quickly Nolan becomes a controversial subject whenever he gets brought up, even on TA.

I think he's great, personally, and can't wait to see TDKR. The last trailer is interesting in that it doesn't tell us anything new about the plot. Compare that with the new Prometheus trailer which seems to give away lots of important information (though I think there'll stil be surprises). I guess TDK was so successful that now they don't have to tease people with another extensive promo campaign.


Posted by srussell0018 on May-01-2012 18:58:

I see Christian Bale is still doing that absurdly awful voice.


Posted by WittyHandle on May-01-2012 19:37:

That's an EQ thing. I mean he's raspy, but they ramped it up in post-production for Dark Knight. They realized it was too much and I bet they scale it down for this one. Still, they should have just had Batman create some voice altering device. If he can turn every cell phone in the city into a monitoring device, it shouldn't be that hard.


Posted by chris1011 on May-01-2012 20:56:

This isn't a car, bitch.


Posted by DJ RANN on May-01-2012 21:49:

Please people just stop posting.

The more you lot post, the less I think you all have a clue about how films are made or the industry itself or film marketing, which again is pretty frightening considering how much you bang on about them.

Firstly, look at the original trailers for DK - virtually no major plot is given away in those eithers. Shit, you could have made a trailer solely for the first 20 min long heist opening sequence and you still have 80% of the film left over to explain.

Nolan purposefully does not do a Michael Bay and jizz the plot all over your pitifully expectant faces in a 30 second trailer months before the film comes out.

And yes, GSG is also right, when you're releasing the third film, after the first was a massive success and the second was one of the biggest grossing films of all time (and a multiple record holder), nolan could just flash the bat symbol with a date up on a screen for a couple of seconds and millions would still turn out to watch it.

The voice thing? Fuck, I don't know where to begin. It's part of the costume so he's not just Bruce wayne in rubber. And on the technical side of things, it's a little more complicated than "EQ". He's actually dubs the voice pretty close to that lower register and then they compress, eq and chorus it. It's a specific FX chain on a theatrical voice over performance.

Finally, it's not a trilogy


Posted by GoSpeedGo! on May-01-2012 22:38:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
Nolan purposefully does not do a Michael Bay and jizz the plot all over your pitifully expectant faces in a 30 second trailer months before the film comes out.



Yeah, my point was that this is still quite unusual in context of today's film marketing practice. It's not just Bay; most of the trailers for new movies cover at least 2 acts of the story - in some of them, like in the one for A Dangerous Method, you see almost the whole damn thing. I don't have to be an industry insider to notice this.

Since you're so knowledgeable about all this, isn't it true that directors often don't have any control over what gets shown in the trailers? From what I've read these things are decided by other people who don't even have to be involved in production of the actual film.


Posted by Halcyon+On+On on May-01-2012 22:46:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
dubs


Awwww, shit.


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