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TranceAddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > The Official TOTA Toronto Maple Leafs/Hockey Talk Thread
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srussell0018
Chaostician



Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Blumsberg

quote:
Originally posted by Zyklon_Jay
you should probably not get into this with one of the guys that actually went to serve in Afghanistan. You won't win this.

You have opinions.
He has first hand experience in the matter.


I wasn't trying to "get into" anything other than your mother I have numerous friends in the Army and Marines who have served multiple tours of duty in both Iraq and Afghanistan, so I've heard a lot of first hand experience from them.

I don't really care about the war, regardless. I made a joke and a bunch of people took it personally, that's not my problem.

Old Post Feb-21-2011 17:47  Ireland
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Spin Laden
Nick Vachon approved



Registered: Jan 2006
Location: 1211 Ambien City Blvd, Canada, K1A 0A9

Canada served one of the most dangerous missions in Afghanistan, get your selective googling facts straight.

you were doing so well in this thread too...


___________________
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a classic from the aria days:
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Old Post Feb-21-2011 22:02  Canada
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Yohan
Champion of Deep&Nu-disco



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Kitchener, Ont, Soviet Canuckistan

quote:
Originally posted by srussell0018
Are they not high-tailing it out of there by the end of this year? I believe Canadian forces didn't even play a significant role in the war until 5 years after it started in 2006, and still never had more than 3,000 troops stationed there. So they basically came in after the hard part, and are leaving before the next hard part.

If you're talking about the KPRT, the provincial reconstruction team was an idea started by the US as well.

I may not be up to date, as I tend to not follow news about the "war" all that closely, but even so, we don't get a whole lot of breaking news about Canada's military involvement on a daily basis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_APOLLO

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/land-t...e-eng.asp?id=72

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intern...ed_October_2004

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Medusa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadi..._in_Afghanistan

It was a distinct pleasure and honour to serve with members of 1/71 Cavalry Squadron, 10th Mountain Division, who have adopted me and my team as one of their own. I would gladly go to battle with those American soldiers again

It is not a distinct pleasure when I have to smack down ignorance. If you claim that you don't know much about Canadian involvement in Afghanistan, perhaps you should do some research.

Old Post Feb-21-2011 22:30  Canada
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srussell0018
Chaostician



Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Blumsberg

I'm not doubting the involvement of Canadian Forces in the war. I'm just saying their presence there is somewhat inconsequential in comparison, going on a numbers standpoint alone. I thought it was interesting that you posted the number of casualties of the Canadian Forces, when the US has suffered almost 10x more. Granted that would seem obvious due to the vastly larger number of US troops in Afghanistan, but all I was pointing out is that the US has had more casualties than all of the other coalition forces combined, and has more or less been the main force in the area.

Yes, Canadian forces were there in Jan-Feb of 2002, but they did not play a significant role until 2006, which I said. You also didn't address the fact that Canadian Forces are planned to have withdrawn the bulk of their troops by the end of 2011. I'm not saying I don't agree with the withdrawal of troops from the region, but if you're going to claim a greater involvement in the war, shouldn't your troops remain there until it is officially deemed to be over?

You also cited Operation APOLLO, but as far as I can tell, and forgive me if I read this correctly, but I believe it said it only involved a little over 2,000 troops? That's less than the number that died in the September 11th attacks.

Again, it was a joke, and I never meant for it to start any kind of argument, least of all with someone who actually served. Many of my friends tease my other friends who served in Iraq and Afghanistan because of the pointlessness of the war, and they never seem to be so butt-hurt by it. I apologize if you took what I said personally, as I didn't mean to offend anyone who actually served in the Canadian Forces. What you said about serving with the American soldiers was really good of you to say, and I'm sure they feel the same about serving with Canadian Forces.

So I apologize if I offended anyone, and Yohan, I do appreciate you serving alongside US Armed Forces in Afghanistan.

Old Post Feb-21-2011 23:44  Ireland
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srussell0018
Chaostician



Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Blumsberg

Now back to how much the Leafs suck.

Old Post Feb-21-2011 23:44  Ireland
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srussell0018
Chaostician



Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Blumsberg

quote:
Originally posted by Spin Laden
Canada served one of the most dangerous missions in Afghanistan, get your selective googling facts straight.

you were doing so well in this thread too...


Canada served one of the most dangerous missions? There's been "dangerous missions" going on in Afghanistan for the past 10 years, and you're citing one. What do you even mean by "served?" They led a NATO-organized offensive? They served along side American and other countries' troops?

Ireland has 7 troops stationed in Afghanistan right now. I'm sure they "served" in many dangerous missions too. That doesn't mean I'm going to argue that they served an integral part in operations in Afghanistan.

You bring up selective googling, yet you brought up one specific mission to support your argument (although it doesn't seem like you really have an argument to make).

Old Post Feb-21-2011 23:51  Ireland
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Yohan
Champion of Deep&Nu-disco



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Kitchener, Ont, Soviet Canuckistan

quote:
Originally posted by srussell0018
I'm not doubting the involvement of Canadian Forces in the war. I'm just saying their presence there is somewhat inconsequential in comparison, going on a numbers standpoint alone. I thought it was interesting that you posted the number of casualties of the Canadian Forces, when the US has suffered almost 10x more. Granted that would seem obvious due to the vastly larger number of US troops in Afghanistan, but all I was pointing out is that the US has had more casualties than all of the other coalition forces combined, and has more or less been the main force in the area.

Total number of CF is about 90000 serving members, all army, navy and air force. It's not a huge military.
quote:

Yes, Canadian forces were there in Jan-Feb of 2002, but they did not play a significant role until 2006, which I said. You also didn't address the fact that Canadian Forces are planned to have withdrawn the bulk of their troops by the end of 2011. I'm not saying I don't agree with the withdrawal of troops from the region, but if you're going to claim a greater involvement in the war, shouldn't your troops remain there until it is officially deemed to be over?

With only some gaps, from Dec 01 to today, Canada has soldiers on the ground. Some missions were more dangerous. Some are less. Put it this way, more troops other countries put into Afghanistan, more American soldiers are freed up to do whatever, so every contribution counts.

Canada is retooling their mission to provide trainers for Afghan National Army and Afghan National Police. (which frankly is just as important as fighting the Taliban)
quote:

You also cited Operation APOLLO, but as far as I can tell, and forgive me if I read this correctly, but I believe it said it only involved a little over 2,000 troops? That's less than the number that died in the September 11th attacks.

It takes a lot of effort to put even 2000 troops on ground for a mission. Since most of that comes from army, which is about 20,000 regular force augmented by reserves. Basically cycling 10% of army per rotation. I dunno about you, but that's pretty difficult thing to do.
quote:

Again, it was a joke, and I never meant for it to start any kind of argument, least of all with someone who actually served. Many of my friends tease my other friends who served in Iraq and Afghanistan because of the pointlessness of the war, and they never seem to be so butt-hurt by it. I apologize if you took what I said personally, as I didn't mean to offend anyone who actually served in the Canadian Forces. What you said about serving with the American soldiers was really good of you to say, and I'm sure they feel the same about serving with Canadian Forces.

So I apologize if I offended anyone, and Yohan, I do appreciate you serving alongside US Armed Forces in Afghanistan.

I appreciate the sentiment. But if you are going to make remarks that's going to annoy a lot of people, at least come prepared for an argument.

Old Post Feb-22-2011 04:34  Canada
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Yohan
Champion of Deep&Nu-disco



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Kitchener, Ont, Soviet Canuckistan

quote:
Originally posted by srussell0018
Canada served one of the most dangerous missions? There's been "dangerous missions" going on in Afghanistan for the past 10 years, and you're citing one. What do you even mean by "served?" They led a NATO-organized offensive? They served along side American and other countries' troops?

Ireland has 7 troops stationed in Afghanistan right now. I'm sure they "served" in many dangerous missions too. That doesn't mean I'm going to argue that they served an integral part in operations in Afghanistan.

You bring up selective googling, yet you brought up one specific mission to support your argument (although it doesn't seem like you really have an argument to make).
I don't think you fully appreciate the historical, and strategical implications of Kandahar province. Not saying other parts aren't dangerous at all, but Kandahar is pretty damn important

Old Post Feb-22-2011 04:35  Canada
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srussell0018
Chaostician



Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Blumsberg

quote:
Originally posted by Yohan
I don't think you fully appreciate the historical, and strategical implications of Kandahar province. Not saying other parts aren't dangerous at all, but Kandahar is pretty damn important


I realize this, but saying that they were merely involved in Kandahar doesn't necessitate that they played an integral part to the entire war. There were many countries' soldiers represented in Kandahar He didn't even point out that it was Canadian-led, but merely that they served in it.

As to the withdrawal of troops, the US is doing the same thing in providing trainers for Afghan Police, etc., and that's by no means a Canadian-led policy, if that's what you're implying.

Old Post Feb-22-2011 05:00  Ireland
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srussell0018
Chaostician



Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Blumsberg

On a side-note, Yohan, did your joining the Canadian military have anything to do with your being Korean? I only know because in college I had a group of friends who were all Korean, one of which joined the Marines right out of high school, and a couple others had already served in the Korean military before they came to the US.

Is military service mandatory in Korea? Or is it just more of a duty to ones country sentiment that's cultivated there?

(I'm writing this because I thought I saw someone mentioning you being Korean. I don't even know if you were born in Canada or Korea so I'm just going on the assumption that you were born in Canada because most of the Korean people I knew while in college were born in Korea and then came to the US for college.

Old Post Feb-22-2011 05:21  Ireland
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Yohan
Champion of Deep&Nu-disco



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Kitchener, Ont, Soviet Canuckistan

quote:
Originally posted by srussell0018
I realize this, but saying that they were merely involved in Kandahar doesn't necessitate that they played an integral part to the entire war. There were many countries' soldiers represented in Kandahar He didn't even point out that it was Canadian-led, but merely that they served in it.
probably semantics right now, but Canada does play an important role, esp considering Kandahar. I'm not just touting the Canadian horn here. Read about Op Medusa and it's implications if Canadian soldiers failed to hold Kandahar province.
Yes, there were other nations represented in Kandahar, but for the longest time, Kandahar was solely Canadian area of operation in terms of combat capable soldiers.
quote:

As to the withdrawal of troops, the US is doing the same thing in providing trainers for Afghan Police, etc., and that's by no means a Canadian-led policy, if that's what you're implying.

If the training mission is now led by two Canadian generals, does it make a Canadian led training mission?

Old Post Feb-22-2011 11:32  Canada
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Yohan
Champion of Deep&Nu-disco



Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Kitchener, Ont, Soviet Canuckistan

quote:
Originally posted by srussell0018
On a side-note, Yohan, did your joining the Canadian military have anything to do with your being Korean? I only know because in college I had a group of friends who were all Korean, one of which joined the Marines right out of high school, and a couple others had already served in the Korean military before they came to the US.

Is military service mandatory in Korea? Or is it just more of a duty to ones country sentiment that's cultivated there?

(I'm writing this because I thought I saw someone mentioning you being Korean. I don't even know if you were born in Canada or Korea so I'm just going on the assumption that you were born in Canada because most of the Korean people I knew while in college were born in Korea and then came to the US for college.
No to all of your questions.

If you have any personal questions, I might answer them through PM.

Now, back to the Maple Laughs...

Old Post Feb-22-2011 11:33  Canada
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