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evo8
Virtual Wannabe



Registered: Aug 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by theterran
Welp, intro's done. Think the song's about 80-90% there...Ran outta creative gas, but I think the intro / breakdown / buildup ended up being "ok". Oh well. Tried for a story-like arrangement, with a lighter tone in the beginning, transitioning into the darker one after the first breakdown. Plenty of space to mix in with I guess. Friends who listened have said the second build-up / transition is a little too jarring @ 5:09'ish. Maybe a more pronounced build there is needed.

Still experimenting with sound FX and tweaking the mix here and there...My sfx library is pretty slim, so I ended up making some that I thought would compliment the vibe of the tune. I'd like to tie them into the song a little better though.

Spent a little more time on the low-end, should be a bit better now.

Still on the fence about the backing arps I made with Sylenth. They fit the overall mix, but sound a little anemic with less going on. Also not a fan of sylenth and its' squishy sounding resonance...but it's the one synth that produces that darker, techy trance-pluck I like.

Added a *little* variance to the hats. Any more is too distracting, I think.

Should be pretty easy to master this one too, plenty of headroom to work with.



this is really nice, the breakdown is a little empty for me, you could maybe have some background synth sweeps just to underpin the rest? nothing too dominating, just there
I think 9 minutes is too long also
nice!


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Old Post Dec-20-2017 17:23  Ireland
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theterran
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Texass

quote:
Originally posted by evo8
this is really nice, the breakdown is a little empty for me, you could maybe have some background synth sweeps just to underpin the rest? nothing too dominating, just there
I think 9 minutes is too long also
nice!


Thanks. 9-10 minutes is about standard for a full trance arrangement from the 2000's, so I'm not too bothered about length. It's also great for passive listening...and there's plenty of room to mix in and out of too.

Old Post Dec-20-2017 19:37  United States
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fuxzz
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2007
Location: Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by theterran
Glad you liked it fuxzz, and I appreciate the time you took to listen and provide feedback!

Could definitely progress the pads a little more towards the first minor build at 2:35. I did end up skimping on the first section a bit in favor of getting the arranging done. The pads do drop down at around 2:35'ish, so I can easily work towards that shift a little sooner.

Definitely needs some more going on in the middle of that first break to make the transition into 5:09 a little less contrasting/jarring. Getting pretty unanimous feedback on this from my friends who have listened. The tricky part is going to be getting the intensity right without having it sound rushed or forced.

If my usual approach to adding the finishing touches doesn't work, I'll end up taking a break yeah. No need to force it, like you said.

thanks again!


Youíre welcome!

Yeah, I agree about the length: 9-10 mins is just about right for this kind of track. Nothing to change there.

Great advice about the background sweep though! That is probably what is needed, drown it in reverb, lower the volume, and put it far away in the background to let the main synth stand more or less alone. As Evo said, nothing to much, itís enough only to have it there in the background without taking focus from the main sound, which, in the way I see it is building everything up just fine as it is. I think you already have the intensity needed, you just need something more to get the fullness.

What I meant about the pad in the beginning, and what I would do is this:

If Iím correct you start with C#, goes to D# and then down to a lower A#.
What I would do, is, that in one occasion, and only one, instead of going down to A#, go up to F#. It just feels right to me. Maybe you hear something different and better though. However, I donít think you should change to much, because it creates a good hypnotic intro with this repetitiveness.

I hope I donít come across as pretentious, what I say is said with all humility. Iím just putting my thoughts out there for you to consider. Obviously, what I say isnít necessary right. Just wanted to make that clear so I donít come across as someone ďall knowingĒ


I hope you will keep the space in the track!

Old Post Dec-20-2017 21:28  Sweden
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theterran
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Texass

quote:
Originally posted by fuxzz

What I meant about the pad in the beginning, and what I would do is this:

If Iím correct you start with C#, goes to D# and then down to a lower A#.
What I would do, is, that in one occasion, and only one, instead of going down to A#, go up to F#. It just feels right to me. Maybe you hear something different and better though. However, I donít think you should change to much, because it creates a good hypnotic intro with this repetitiveness.


3 Pad layers for the soft pad. (I also have a layered open saw pad that's a separate pad entirely and used later)

1st layer (Starts at 0:00) is F#5 + F#4 that's constant.

2nd layer (Starts at 0:44) is A#5, C#6 + D#6 back to A#

3rd Layer (Starts at 2:12) Is A#5 on the 2nd 1/2 note, then at 2:35 it's F#5, D#5, A#4

quote:


I hope I donít come across as pretentious, what I say is said with all humility. Iím just putting my thoughts out there for you to consider. Obviously, what I say isnít necessary right. Just wanted to make that clear so I donít come across as someone ďall knowingĒ


I hope you will keep the space in the track!


What you say is your opinion, and that opinion should be given freely. What I do with that opinion as the artist is also up to me. If I agree (and I may have been thinking the same thing anyway), I'll do it. Even if I don't, I might put it in anyway to see if I end up liking it. If I flat out disagree or tried it and don't like it, it won't happen.

Nothing pretentious about that at all. I appreciate it.

Old Post Dec-20-2017 21:58  United States
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fuxzz
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2007
Location: Sweden

Okay, I guess you will make it work somehow!

Good, we think the same way then.


The Terrans piece inspired me to upload this, which been lying on my computer for quite a while. There are some seriously talented people in this thread, so I would appreciate if you let me know what you think.


Last edited by fuxzz on Dec-20-2017 at 22:57

Old Post Dec-20-2017 22:43  Sweden
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theterran
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Texass

quote:
Originally posted by fuxzz
Okay, I guess you will make it work somehow!

Good, we think the same way then.


The Terrans piece inspired me to upload this, which been lying on my computer for quite a while. There are some seriously talented people in this thread, so I would appreciate if you let me know what you think.




Like the vibe overall, pretty energetic / atomospheric, and it's a nice kind of different. Sound selection is good, and everything works well together. Vocal snippets are placed well, and are interesting.

Kick seems to be lacking some punch / drive though. It sounds alright at first, but gets lost in the mix I think. Since this seems like more of a beat driven track, that might be worth looking into.

Might consider doing some more panning / filtering work with that whooshy noise, or duck it a few db, to blend it in with the drumkit a little more.

Will note that I was listening passively to the mix, and then actively when I felt pulled out or distracted.

I thought the track actually ended at 4:00, and was pulled out of the vibe there. Even tabbed back to hit pause so SC didn't continue on down the random playlist it typically does and realized it was only 1/2 done. Gotta be somethin' there, 10 seconds of silence is a bit much.

Personal preference : I was hoping for some sorta distinct melodic hook / theme, something light and passive, but still memorable. Could theme it off of the vocal sections that fade in around 5:15, or something to accent the ambience. Could use any variety of instruments for it in this mix too. I just don't think the bassline is interesting enough to hold the beat, supporting vocal snippets and atmosphere together for the entire 9 minutes. If nothing springs to mind, or is inspired, then I wouldn't worry about it.

If you're interested, I have the 133 bpm snippet of what my brain was trying to fill in the void with...it's a simple, drone-y, backdrop harmony but, it might spark some ideas if that's something you'd like to toy around with.

Like you said, it's not worth it to force things in a song though. I feel it's usually pretty apparent to the listener...and it tends to be a detriment to the song more often than not.

Good job overall though, I liked it.

Last edited by theterran on Dec-21-2017 at 01:14

Old Post Dec-21-2017 00:07  United States
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evo8
Virtual Wannabe



Registered: Aug 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by fuxzz
Okay, I guess you will make it work somehow!

Good, we think the same way then.


The Terrans piece inspired me to upload this, which been lying on my computer for quite a while. There are some seriously talented people in this thread, so I would appreciate if you let me know what you think.




really like this one!! love the drums great groove, the kick just seems to fit in perfectly, wouldnt change it! bassline is simple but just works

i think you can do better than those male vocal snippets in the breakdown though, easily enough to remedy

ive been trying and failing recently to get this kind of sound, i keep drifting back towards modern techno but im determined to succeed, thanks for the inspiration!


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Old Post Dec-21-2017 01:23  Ireland
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fuxzz
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2007
Location: Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by theterran
Like the vibe overall, pretty energetic / atomospheric, and it's a nice kind of different. Sound selection is good, and everything works well together. Vocal snippets are placed well, and are interesting.

Kick seems to be lacking some punch / drive though. It sounds alright at first, but gets lost in the mix I think. Since this seems like more of a beat driven track, that might be worth looking into.

Might consider doing some more panning / filtering work with that whooshy noise, or duck it a few db, to blend it in with the drumkit a little more.

Will note that I was listening passively to the mix, and then actively when I felt pulled out or distracted.

I thought the track actually ended at 4:00, and was pulled out of the vibe there. Even tabbed back to hit pause so SC didn't continue on down the random playlist it typically does and realized it was only 1/2 done. Gotta be somethin' there, 10 seconds of silence is a bit much.

Personal preference : I was hoping for some sorta distinct melodic hook / theme, something light and passive, but still memorable. Could theme it off of the vocal sections that fade in around 5:15, or something to accent the ambience. Could use any variety of instruments for it in this mix too. I just don't think the bassline is interesting enough to hold the beat, supporting vocal snippets and atmosphere together for the entire 9 minutes. If nothing springs to mind, or is inspired, then I wouldn't worry about it.

If you're interested, I have the 133 bpm snippet of what my brain was trying to fill in the void with...it's a simple, drone-y, backdrop harmony but, it might spark some ideas if that's something you'd like to toy around with.

Like you said, it's not worth it to force things in a song though. I feel it's usually pretty apparent to the listener...and it tends to be a detriment to the song more often than not.

Good job overall though, I liked it.


Thanks for listening! Glad you liked parts of it at least. I am aware of that this kind of track isnít for everyone.

Bass: I have had tremendous problems with making kick/bass work. And I am still not sure about it, but it will have to do, there are new compositions waiting to be made, so canít work on this forever =)

And Iím glad evo liked it. Thatís the danger with giving/receiving tips, you never know what kind of preferences the person giving itís input have, so something that is ok for one, need to be changed for another. This is of course obvious, but easy to forget when you put stuff up for criticism, and very important to bear in mind. I actually think it can be very dangerous to search criticism too early in the processÖ

Mark Twain wrote something in the lines as: Donít send me your stuff and ask me whether itís good or not. The risk is that I donít like it because of my personal preferences and turn it down, and something that would have been deeply appreciated by the public will never see the light of day. The artist must always, in one way, "stand alone".


About the silence in the break. I know that it is a little risky, but silence can actually be a really great effect under the right circumstances, and it serves a purpose for the continuation of the build up. I also look at it in a bigger context, like in a set, and in a ďliveĒ setting. I think that it could be really goodÖI hope so anyway. But thanks for helping out! Appreciated.

About melody. As you said this one is more about the beat and the atmosphere, so donít want any apparent melody in it. Sometimes I just like it when itís more driving, hypnotic, than obvious.


Btw, I was listening to your track again, and that piano melody at the end is beautiful. What kind of piano did you use?

Last edited by fuxzz on Dec-21-2017 at 11:19

Old Post Dec-21-2017 10:36  Sweden
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fuxzz
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2007
Location: Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by evo8
really like this one!! love the drums great groove, the kick just seems to fit in perfectly, wouldnt change it! bassline is simple but just works

i think you can do better than those male vocal snippets in the breakdown though, easily enough to remedy

ive been trying and failing recently to get this kind of sound, i keep drifting back towards modern techno but im determined to succeed, thanks for the inspiration!



Glad to hear that, especially from you. I always liked the sound of your drums and kick/bass in the WIPs you've been posting here.

The male vocals will stay though. Iím aware of that it is ugly in one way, but that is kind of what I like about it.

Iím not up to date with modern techno. The inspiration to this one comes from schranz techno intertwined with progressive houseÖat least I think so. It is not impossible that your snippets here have been part of the inspiration to actually.

So maybe I have inspired you with the inspiration I got from you. That is a interesting phenomenon.

Looking forward to hear what you come up with. One of the dangers I think is when you start to think to much, and ďwantĒ to much. If you want to make a track in a certain style, you will not really listen and hear where the track itself wants to go. Often I feel like putting a track together is like a invisible puzzle. When the first peace is laid down, the rest is more about listening, and finding the hidden peaces thatís missing, than creating something. That is at least one way to look at it.

A tip would be, start with the background ambiance and go from there, that is at least what I did with this one.

Old Post Dec-21-2017 11:16  Sweden
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theterran
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Texass

quote:
Originally posted by fuxzz
Btw, I was listening to your track again, and that piano melody at the end is beautiful. What kind of piano did you use?


Nexus 2 : Piano, "Arena Ambience". FX Bus was : FabFilter Pro-Q2 -> Ozone 5 Multiband compressor + Harmonic Exciter -> Valhalla Vintage Verb (Nexus 2 Reveerb is decent, but not always the best choice)

Nexus has pretty good pianos. Both the standard Nexus 2 Piano and the PS Total Piano expansion pack are quite good.

I understand the preference thing. A few of the people who commented on my wip definitely seemed more into house...so I understood that they'd prefer a stronger kick / bass.

I try to review with more of an objective mindset, disregarding personal preference, trying best to consider what the artist was going for. Still might throw in a preference based opinion or two though, but never aimed at the mix. I've had a few songs get a really nice addition from an idea someone else had.

The other thing with mixes is that people are listening on varied systems. Something might be one way through headphone monitors, might be different on reference monitors, different listening environments come into play etc...

Last edited by theterran on Dec-21-2017 at 13:24

Old Post Dec-21-2017 11:45  United States
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evo8
Virtual Wannabe



Registered: Aug 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by fuxzz
Glad to hear that, especially from you. I always liked the sound of your drums and kick/bass in the WIPs you've been posting here.

The male vocals will stay though. Iím aware of that it is ugly in one way, but that is kind of what I like about it.

Iím not up to date with modern techno. The inspiration to this one comes from schranz techno intertwined with progressive houseÖat least I think so. It is not impossible that your snippets here have been part of the inspiration to actually.

So maybe I have inspired you with the inspiration I got from you. That is a interesting phenomenon.

Looking forward to hear what you come up with. One of the dangers I think is when you start to think to much, and ďwantĒ to much. If you want to make a track in a certain style, you will not really listen and hear where the track itself wants to go. Often I feel like putting a track together is like a invisible puzzle. When the first peace is laid down, the rest is more about listening, and finding the hidden peaces thatís missing, than creating something. That is at least one way to look at it.

A tip would be, start with the background ambiance and go from there, that is at least what I did with this one.


thanks - i think i need to get the drums and bass right first but starting with background could be a good idea, I also need to listen to more music from late 90s/early 00s


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Old Post Dec-21-2017 13:42  Ireland
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fuxzz
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Apr 2007
Location: Sweden

quote:
Originally posted by theterran
Nexus 2 : Piano, "Arena Ambience". FX Bus was : FabFilter Pro-Q2 -> Ozone 5 Multiband compressor + Harmonic Exciter -> Valhalla Vintage Verb (Nexus 2 Reveerb is decent, but not always the best choice)

Nexus has pretty good pianos. Both the standard Nexus 2 Piano and the PS Total Piano expansion pack are quite good.

I understand the preference thing. A few of the people who commented on my wip definitely seemed more into house...so I understood that they'd prefer a stronger kick / bass.

I try to review with more of an objective mindset, disregarding personal preference, trying best to consider what the artist was going for. Still might throw in a preference based opinion or two though, but never aimed at the mix. I've had a few songs get a really nice addition from an idea someone else had.

The other thing with mixes is that people are listening on varied systems. Something might be one way through headphone monitors, might be different on reference monitors, different listening environments come into play etc...



Yeah the piano sounds very nice. You have found the perfect amount of reverb and compression too!

Yes it is much to take into consideration in the world of music making, and even listening. Not only when listening for reviewing, but actually the same kind of mindset can be good to have when listening to music in general. Some of my favourite songs I didnít even like the first time when I heard them, because I ďthoughtĒ I didnít like that kind of music. When I later heard them, and wasnít aware in the same way, I actually liked them, and later came to love them. Strange how that works. I think many people doesn't even know how to listen to music anymore.

And y, others input can be very valuable, itís only a matter of knowing when to listen and when to not listen, that can be a little tricky some times.

Old Post Dec-21-2017 18:09  Sweden
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