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Woony
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Berlin

quote:
Originally posted by SystematicX1
Thanks man, I guess I was using the Sat for just that little extra dirt on the mix. I didnt see any clipping so I felt it was ok. Guess not =O(
I'll have a play on that compressor and may even just dropit and go with the trusty ol sausage fatty


Lol, your saturator is barely even doing anything... you should see my master bus Console emulation, heavy saturation across the mix and tape emulation. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saturation on the master bus, loads of people do it, sending the mix bus through tape or analog preamps for saturation is an age old engineer trick. I mean, not everyone has to go as far as I do but a little master saturation almost never hurts. It helps to glue things and makes the track a bit more harmonically rich. However, unless you are "home mastering" to make a track loud enough to play out, I would shy away from corrective mix bus EQ, peak compression and limiting, they all come with side effects that are better to avoid unless you need to. Mastering always has a destructive side, hence why it requires years of experience and skill to get right. That said, a bit of gentle, analog modelled RMS compression can work nicely on the master to glue the mix and add a bit of character, just one or two db of gain reduction will probably be enough - it's basically just decoration rather than actual mix fixing.


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Old Post Aug-26-2017 15:10 
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evo8
Virtual Wannabe



Registered: Aug 2004
Location:

as always - if it sounds good then anything goes


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Old Post Aug-26-2017 18:36  Ireland
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evo8
Virtual Wannabe



Registered: Aug 2004
Location:

not sure if this is too boring or what


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Old Post Aug-26-2017 18:39  Ireland
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chris marsh
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2012
Location: london

quote:
Originally posted by Woony
Lol, your saturator is barely even doing anything... you should see my master bus Console emulation, heavy saturation across the mix and tape emulation. There's absolutely nothing wrong with saturation on the master bus, loads of people do it, sending the mix bus through tape or analog preamps for saturation is an age old engineer trick. I mean, not everyone has to go as far as I do but a little master saturation almost never hurts. It helps to glue things and makes the track a bit more harmonically rich. However, unless you are "home mastering" to make a track loud enough to play out, I would shy away from corrective mix bus EQ, peak compression and limiting, they all come with side effects that are better to avoid unless you need to. Mastering always has a destructive side, hence why it requires years of experience and skill to get right. That said, a bit of gentle, analog modelled RMS compression can work nicely on the master to glue the mix and add a bit of character, just one or two db of gain reduction will probably be enough - it's basically just decoration rather than actual mix fixing.


ive always shyed away from doing much on the master, typically mastering engineers have said "give it to me without the limiter on the master bus"

but... recently ive decided that i want to have a proper go at drum and bass, and the truth is a lot of, if not most, of the big guys in DNB mix into a limiter (or two) doing a quite a lot

ive come to understand that this is really for getting the most volume out of a track, then mixing and mastering go hand in hand to some extent - ie with heavy limiting on the master you may well actually have to go back and adjust your track - for example you may have the snare louder on a heavily limited track than you would have without it. Doing a bit of DIY mastering enables you to make adjustments that the mastering engineer wont be able to do

I did a session with a well known drum and bass producer a few years back (hes a friend of a friend and i paid him something)

first question I asked "how do you get such loud powerful mixes" - he pointed to the oxford native limiter on his mater bus. At that time i still didn't want to believe it as it seemed to go against conventional wisdom but im coming round to the idea and will try it in my next mix

agree nothing wrong with stuff on the master, in fact it may be the way forward. the more we understand about mastering the better our mixed will be afterall...


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Last edited by chris marsh on Aug-26-2017 at 20:41

Old Post Aug-26-2017 20:33  United Kingdom
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chris marsh
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2012
Location: london

quote:
Originally posted by MSZ
pfft im not very good chris, other people can provide better input than me here. Its nice to separate yourself away from the music emotionally but that takes a lot of time in the mean time this thread will do. I dont exactly have the most ideal listening reference equipment just FYI.

since I dont see any music to comment on, I guess ill post another one. I scrapped my older one and it turned into this, basically more overly happy music to combat my sadness. Dont know where to go with melodies and arrangement for now, its probably too saturated.



shush man your a joof producer. do you have a good set of cans? IMO really essential unless you have good monitors and a good room setup (i have good speaker but an untreated room right now)

akgk701 amazing IMO for detail and at the moment i trust them way more than my genelcs in my current room



damn i missed it, i had a listen yesterday and i was loving the vibe, but i noticed some crowding in the low mids/lows

ive seen a new plug in thats supposed to help mixing bass in a less than perfect environment, will post it up later - i find the idea intriguing

ps i dont think you should scrap your last idea, that was good and defo worth wprking on further IMO


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Old Post Aug-26-2017 20:39  United Kingdom
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TranceLover007
DariusX



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Seattle, USA

quote:
Originally posted by chris marsh
ive always shyed away from doing much on the master, typically mastering engineers have said "give it to me without the limiter on the master bus"

but... recently ive decided that i want to have a proper go at drum and bass, and the truth is a lot of, if not most, of the big guys in DNB mix into a limiter (or two) doing a quite a lot

ive come to understand that this is really for getting the most volume out of a track, then mixing and mastering go hand in hand to some extent - ie with heavy limiting on the master you may well actually have to go back and adjust your track - for example you may have the snare louder on a heavily limited track than you would have without it. Doing a bit of DIY mastering enables you to make adjustments that the mastering engineer wont be able to do

I did a session with a well known drum and bass producer a few years back (hes a friend of a friend and i paid him something)

first question I asked "how do you get such loud powerful mixes" - he pointed to the oxford native limiter on his mater bus. At that time i still didn't want to believe it as it seemed to go against conventional wisdom but im coming round to the idea and will try it in my next mix

agree nothing wrong with stuff on the master, in fact it may be the way forward. the more we understand about mastering the better our mixed will be afterall...


Sounds like reasonable approach Chris.

Darek


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Old Post Aug-26-2017 21:38  Poland
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chris marsh
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2012
Location: london

quote:
Originally posted by evo8
not sure if this is too boring or what



doesn't sound boring to me at all. really nice bass and groove imo. prob needs a little development


heres the plug in(s) i was talking about earlier, sounds interesting

http://www.soundways.com/products


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Old Post Aug-27-2017 00:49  United Kingdom
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evo8
Virtual Wannabe



Registered: Aug 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by chris marsh
doesn't sound boring to me at all. really nice bass and groove imo. prob needs a little development


heres the plug in(s) i was talking about earlier, sounds interesting

http://www.soundways.com/products


thanks Chris, yeah i need to work on the arrangement its too drawn out


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Old Post Aug-27-2017 12:40  Ireland
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Woony
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Berlin

quote:
Originally posted by chris marsh
ive always shyed away from doing much on the master, typically mastering engineers have said "give it to me without the limiter on the master bus"

but... recently ive decided that i want to have a proper go at drum and bass, and the truth is a lot of, if not most, of the big guys in DNB mix into a limiter (or two) doing a quite a lot


If you want SUPER DUPER loud mixes you probably need to mix into a limiter, I wouldn't personally do it though - IMO a lot of modern Dnb is waay too loud and dense, I much prefer the older stuff that still has dynamics.

Keep in mind though that saturation also increases the perceived loudness since it rolls of transients and adds harmonic density. Try demoing Brainworx Saturator v2. If you leave it on the first drive stage and crank the saturation, the amount of perceived loudness you can add without an increasing in peak volume or audible distortion is actually mind boggling (and no compression!).

Latest one from me - maybe I should upload a version with a clean master bus, it would sound like total crap


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Old Post Aug-27-2017 13:25 
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TranceLover007
DariusX



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Seattle, USA

quote:
Originally posted by evo8
not sure if this is too boring or what



Will coment in a few but I like it so far.

Darek


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Old Post Aug-27-2017 17:07  Poland
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evo8
Virtual Wannabe



Registered: Aug 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Woony
If you want SUPER DUPER loud mixes you probably need to mix into a limiter, I wouldn't personally do it though - IMO a lot of modern Dnb is waay too loud and dense, I much prefer the older stuff that still has dynamics.

Keep in mind though that saturation also increases the perceived loudness since it rolls of transients and adds harmonic density. Try demoing Brainworx Saturator v2. If you leave it on the first drive stage and crank the saturation, the amount of perceived loudness you can add without an increasing in peak volume or audible distortion is actually mind boggling (and no compression!).

Latest one from me - maybe I should upload a version with a clean master bus, it would sound like total crap



lovely stuff Woony, really good!


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Old Post Aug-27-2017 18:38  Ireland
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evo8
Virtual Wannabe



Registered: Aug 2004
Location:

1 more from me - went big on this one so mix may be out of balance as it stands


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Old Post Aug-27-2017 22:32  Ireland
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TranceAddict Forums > DJing / Production / Promotion > Production Studio > WIP thread (Banned Users: DJRYAN)
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