i have only read about half of the posts in this thread, but i have to say that i really respect markus for posting. he makes a good point. its music. he says that he and dave dresden argue about music, so do alot of people. they remain friends. you dont have to agree with everyone's taste in music to like them.

you could say that PvD sucks, but if you're in a club full of people that PvD is totally pwning, does he really suck? no. you just dont feel him. maybe he isnt your cup of tea.

if you are a bedroom dj, or a prof. dj, and you make a mix and somebody doesnt like it, does that me you suck, or they suck? neither, it is a difference of opinion.

you can have your own opinion but you should respect other peoples opinions and chill the f@ck out. you dont need to hate people because of the music that they make, or spin, or buy, or love...

there is alot of hate in TA, but there is alot of love as well, i feel that some people just need to chill out a bit and grow up. you dont need to kiss everyone's ass but treat people the way that you would like to be treated.

dartman

Markus Schulz is cool....no really.

___________________
[img]http://x11.putfile.com/12/34902035365.jpg[/mg]
Please see sig rules thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by dartman there is alot of hate in TA, but there is alot of love as well, i feel that some people just need to chill out a bit and grow up. you dont need to kiss everyone's ass but treat people the way that you would like to be treated.

Not everone would like to be treated like a little kid who can't handle someone "disrespecting" them on the internet.

quote:

Originally posted by biznology OH TTA, you got called out! hehe youre fucked!

how is TTA involved in this???

well i guess if he was, i wouldnt be suprised. Though, one should not pay attention to lonely, disturbed, arrogant jerks.



>JM<

ps. markus, you're a good producer. cheers, and good luck.

I read all the posts here and in the previous thread regarding an issue that'stied into this which was eventually closed.

Dave, I felt for you earlier, but it was really hard to read the pages afterwards with your comments...it got to be a bit childish and you let your "bad day" get the best of you when you needed to step up yourself to overcome what has happened. I think people woul have REALLY listened to you if you acted a little more....mature for lack of a better word.

Now seeing this post by Markus...I did a double take. Though I may not have agreed with your behavior earlier, Dave, I agree with what you are saying now. Respect to you Markus as a DJ/producer, but even though I am an outsider regarding the issue tying these two threads together, I was not swayed away from what Dave has been arguing and am a little concerned how quickly you decided to pop by and leave now that this issue has gotten big. Though I find validity in your post, I can't help but think that hidden behind your statement is a method to get people to turn away from the Dave incident and try to look at you as taking the high road and standing up for something that sounds good and looks as though we would need in this time where TA seems to be going downhill. Anyone can stand up and say flaming is bad. Anyone can stand up and say we should all respect each other, and it will all sound good. How can anyone say that's not right? It is right...everyone deserves respect and flaming can not only limit intellectual deliberation in a great public community, but can also unnecessarily hurt people.

However, it still strikes me odd that you posted this now, after a thread quickly grew regarding a situation involving you and Dave.
Again, I don't know the full story. My guess is that these "positive" comments are meant to stop people from perusing the issue regarding yourself. After all, if it is true that Dave was forced to stop critiquing you and your style, wouldn't it look bad for a big DJ to be concerned with 1 person's view? Maybe you fear his comments might yield others to begin seeing the same things. Just speculation.

Who knows. It might just be a coincidence that you posted here after all this talk. If so, respect to you for posting and sharing with this great community. But again, I'm here to say that I am not easily won by your comments until this is all resolved. I, as well, as others, have become interested in this mess, and I for one, am not gonna forget about it just like that. I agree Dave has the right to post his opinions (even if he comes off as a child...seriously Dave, don't let them win so easily) and that he shouldn't be silenced. I also believe that you, Mr. Shultz, are big enough to let whatever he says roll off your back. I don't know if this all goes back to you POSSIBLY being upset with Dave's remarks a while back, but your case hasn't won me over with one "positive outlook" post in a time like this where your name is being talked about a little more than usual.

I'm not exactly picking a side right now. All I'm saying is that just because Markus has posted something that everyone can agree with, and just because Dave went off a stupid rant earlier, it doesn't resolve the issue that was originally debated not too long ago...freedom of speech.

It'll be interesting to see where this ends up and what I eventually decide. If anyone thinks this whole thing is stupid, it's not. It really means a lot at this point. We got freedom of speech in the issue as well as how we view our DJ's and their actions. If Markus isn't involved in this whole mess, fine. Sorry it came to this. If he is and is upset with anti-Markus comments, it's not right for the DJ to take steps to make those comments "go away".

My word...may the discussion go on.

quote:

Originally posted by tribu Seriously Clovis, this is not Nam, this is TA...

I'm sorry treeboo...you were over the line thats a foul.

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

Look, the "issue" is really pretty simple. Either you value freedom of speech more than "everyone deserving respect" or you value "everyone deserving respect" more than freedom of speech.

Personally, I think freedom of speech is the only one of those positions which is even valuable. Maybe it's old fashioned, but I believe respect should be earned, not just automatically given to anyone with the manual dexterity to type out an application for membership on the forums.

The very reason a lot of people in the industry read this board is because users aren't afraid to voice their opinions - AND - mods don't censor things to cater to a certain DJ/label/whatever. The mods on here do a lot of work as it is - just because it isn't obvious to you doesn't mean threads aren't being closed/deleted or abusive users aren't being suspended.

Yes, there are lots of people on Tranceaddict that have a PASSION for EDM -- some are so extreme that they feel they have to trash other artists/DJs in order to make their point more valid. "DJ XYZ is garbage" / "You're a n00b because you like DJ ABC", etc.

I do not think the quality of the posts on here has gone down - what has happened though - is that those that like to voice their negativity do so more often - creating that illusion. Remember, if someone enjoys something they'll likely post about it once or twice - BUT - if they really disapprove of a track/artist then they'll make it their calling to go out of their way to make sure EVERYONE knows. They repeat their same opinions over and over again until they feel a point of saturation has been reached and enough people have seen their 'brilliant' thoughts.

How do you control this? Not easily. Sure, you could put up a whole ton of rules but where does it end? Eventually you have a bunch of restrictions and people are no longer comfortable voicing things for fear they may be in violation of one of them. I look at it the same as putting rules on little kids - they'll do whatever is in their power to bend them.

The roots of this are not TA specific - it is EDM specific. What I mean is, EDM 'fans' usually go through transitions - initially with people that were open-minded to this different sound -- a sound that could be heard at events not normally attended by the 'masses' -- thus contributing to the overall acceptance & tolerance that came along with being involved in the 'scene'. Somehow, as things grew & time passed, those that were around a while no longer felt like they were part of a small community -- causing them to feel like they were losing their 'identity' and had to branch out and funnel their tastes to a certain sub-genre or particular DJ(s)-- all the while dismissing what they once enjoyed - since it was now 'cheese' and loved by too many.

Dave, all the crap in this thread tonight was a little much, replying once or twice would have been sufficient - now you should take it to PM/email and resolve it - trust me - it can only get uglier if it stays in here. (in terms of flaming/comments/getting nothing accomplished)

The beauty of TA is that you can all say what you want, hell, you can tell me to fuck off, but, you have to list your reasons if you do.

___________________

"In a world of illusion you only see what you feel"

quote:

Originally posted by trance-ecj I read all the posts here and in the previous thread regarding an issue that'stied into this which was eventually closed. Dave, I felt for you earlier, but it was really hard to read the pages afterwards with your comments...it got to be a bit childish and you let your "bad day" get the best of you when you needed to step up yourself to overcome what has happened. I think people woul have REALLY listened to you if you acted a little more....mature for lack of a better word. Now seeing this post by Markus...I did a double take. Though I may not have agreed with your behavior earlier, Dave, I agree with what you are saying now. Respect to you Markus as a DJ/producer, but even though I am an outsider regarding the issue tying these two threads together, I was not swayed away from what Dave has been arguing and am a little concerned how quickly you decided to pop by and leave now that this issue has gotten big. Though I find validity in your post, I can't help but think that hidden behind your statement is a method to get people to turn away from the Dave incident and try to look at you as taking the high road and standing up for something that sounds good and looks as though we would need in this time where TA seems to be going downhill. Anyone can stand up and say flaming is bad. Anyone can stand up and say we should all respect each other, and it will all sound good. How can anyone say that's not right? It is right...everyone deserves respect and flaming can not only limit intellectual deliberation in a great public community, but can also unnecessarily hurt people. However, it still strikes me odd that you posted this now, after a thread quickly grew regarding a situation involving you and Dave. Again, I don't know the full story. My guess is that these "positive" comments are meant to stop people from perusing the issue regarding yourself. After all, if it is true that Dave was forced to stop critiquing you and your style, wouldn't it look bad for a big DJ to be concerned with 1 person's view? Maybe you fear his comments might yield others to begin seeing the same things. Just speculation. Who knows. It might just be a coincidence that you posted here after all this talk. If so, respect to you for posting and sharing with this great community. But again, I'm here to say that I am not easily won by your comments until this is all resolved. I, as well, as others, have become interested in this mess, and I for one, am not gonna forget about it just like that. I agree Dave has the right to post his opinions (even if he comes off as a child...seriously Dave, don't let them win so easily) and that he shouldn't be silenced. I also believe that you, Mr. Shultz, are big enough to let whatever he says roll off your back. I don't know if this all goes back to you POSSIBLY being upset with Dave's remarks a while back, but your case hasn't won me over with one "positive outlook" post in a time like this where your name is being talked about a little more than usual. I'm not exactly picking a side right now. All I'm saying is that just because Markus has posted something that everyone can agree with, and just because Dave went off a stupid rant earlier, it doesn't resolve the issue that was originally debated not too long ago...freedom of speech. It'll be interesting to see where this ends up and what I eventually decide. If anyone thinks this whole thing is stupid, it's not. It really means a lot at this point. We got freedom of speech in the issue as well as how we view our DJ's and their actions. If Markus isn't involved in this whole mess, fine. Sorry it came to this. If he is and is upset with anti-Markus comments, it's not right for the DJ to take steps to make those comments "go away". My word...may the discussion go on.

OMG this is beautiful ! This is what I have been trying to say for f#ckin 12 pages

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http://www.musicv2.com/artist/davepiazza

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper The very reason a lot of people in the industry read this board is because users aren't afraid to voice their opinions - AND - mods don't censor things to cater to a certain DJ/label/whatever. The mods on here do a lot of work as it is - just because it isn't obvious to you doesn't mean threads aren't being closed/deleted or abusive users aren't being suspended. Yes, there are lots of people on Tranceaddict that have a PASSION for EDM -- some are so extreme that they feel they have to trash other artists/DJs in order to make their point more valid. "DJ XYZ is garbage" / "You're a n00b because you like DJ ABC", etc. I do not think the quality of the posts on here has gone down - what has happened though - is that those that like to voice their negativity do so more often - creating that illusion. Remember, if someone enjoys something they'll likely post about it once or twice - BUT - if they really disapprove of a track/artist then they'll make it their calling to go out of their way to make sure EVERYONE knows. They repeat their same opinions over and over again until they feel a point of saturation has been reached and enough people have seen their 'brilliant' thoughts. How do you control this? Not easily. Sure, you could put up a whole ton of rules but where does it end? Eventually you have a bunch of restrictions and people are no longer comfortable voicing things for fear they may be in violation of one of them. I look at it the same as putting rules on little kids - they'll do whatever is in their power to bend them. The roots of this are not TA specific - it is EDM specific. What I mean is, EDM 'fans' usually go through transitions - initially with people that were open-minded to this different sound -- a sound that could be heard at events not normally attended by the 'masses' -- thus contributing to the overall acceptance & tolerance that came along with being involved in the 'scene'. Somehow, as things grew & time passed, those that were around a while no longer felt like they were part of a small community -- causing them to feel like they were losing their 'identity' and had to branch out and funnel their tastes to a certain sub-genre or particular DJ(s)-- all the while dismissing what they once enjoyed - since it was now 'cheese' and loved by too many. Dave, all the crap in this thread tonight was a little much, replying once or twice would have been sufficient - now you should take it to PM/email and resolve it - trust me - it can only get uglier if it stays in here. (in terms of flaming/comments/getting nothing accomplished) The beauty of TA is that you can all say what you want, hell, you can tell me to fuck off, but, you have to list your reasons if you do.

Your are intellegent !!! Thank you for wrting what I couldnt do in 12 pages

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http://www.musicv2.com/artist/davepiazza

i think that freedom speech is paramount and should always be respected but there is also a thing called tact. you can say whatever you want but if you want people to really hear what you're saying and respect it, you need to learn how to present it. there is a big difference between saying "i'm not feeling markus' music" and "markus fucking sucks, wish he would stop producing" .

you can say whatever you want but at some point you need to stop and think about what you are saying and how it is going it going to come across. i've seen people respond to really hacked up mixes posted in the amateur djs/ producers forums with 10X the respect that works by markus, g&d, avb, etc get. not that music made by these guys sould get totally applauded. it just seems like they have a huge bulls-eye on them because of their success.

btw, i really like markus s., d&g, enmass, filo & peri, ferry, armin...

quote:

Originally posted by dartman i think that freedom speech is paramount and should always be respected but there is also a thing called tact. you can say whatever you want but if you want people to really hear what you're saying and respect it, you need to learn how to present it. there is a big difference between saying "i'm not feeling markus' music" and "markus fucking sucks, wish he would stop producing" . you can say whatever you want but at some point you need to stop and think about what you are saying and how it is going it going to come across. i've seen people respond to really hacked up mixes posted in the amateur djs/ producers forums with 10X the respect that works by markus, g&d, avb, etc get. not that music made by these guys sould get totally applauded. it just seems like they have a huge bulls-eye on them because of their success. btw, i really like markus s., d&g, enmass, filo & peri, ferry, armin...

I totally agree...again, I wish for more intelligent deliberation on the boards as do many members. I don't know if Dave was doing this to Markus...have to look into it. But I totally agree that presentation is key. Anything not presented appropriately is just an attack rather than a stated opinion for others to work off of.