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Originally posted by gordan100 Thanks Yeah, drums. Do you always make your drums or using drumloops sometimes or combine? And if you use drumloops where do you get them? Sounds clean and balanced to me and it has enough power. Not among your best tracks though

Ah yes...to sample or not, that is the question.
Starting out, highly suggest it but you need quality samples and not just from anywhere. Loopmaster,Cymatics (highly recommend)Splice all have really good samples.
For me however, after awhile I started wanting to learn sound design.
Found out that a simple Square wave is how a kick can be created and started messing with that.
Now days, screw that..lol I want instant sounds and tones. I have mimicked and understood how to create a kick but I spent to much time fidgeting instead of creating a track.
The benefit behind doing some sound design earlier on, I managed to pull out some interesting kicks and used them in tracks.
However, Now I have also amassed a fairly large library of one shot kicks of all octave ranges that all I need to do is small tweaks as I recognize the tones now and how to tweak them to my liking.

On a side note, take notice that I mentioned one shots. This is vs Loops.
I used to use loops but once you start learning more you find out that really you are at the mercy of that mix.
It combines elements of snare,kick,cymbals and misc percussion that all have their own (or at least "should")EQ settings.
As well, you have little to no control over that loop. It may be a cool sounding 4 bar pattern but that is all you get,unless you start stacking loop over loop...then you just start sliding down hill.
With one shots, you can control everything about it.
Pop it into your DAW drum rack and start playing.

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Phil

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Last edited by SystematicX1 on Jun-26-2017 at 12:51

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Originally posted by SystematicX1 Ah yes...to sample or not, that is the question. Starting out, highly suggest it but you need quality samples and not just from anywhere. Loopmaster,Cymatics (highly recommend)Splice all have really good samples. For me however, after awhile I started wanting to learn sound design. Found out that a simple Square wave is how a kick can be created and started messing with that. Now days, screw that..lol I want instant sounds and tones. I have mimicked and understood how to create a kick but I spent to much time fidgeting instead of creating a track. The benefit behind doing some sound design earlier on, I managed to pull out some interesting kicks and used them in tracks. However, Now I have also amassed a fairly large library of one shot kicks of all octave ranges that all I need to do is small tweaks as I recognize the tones now and how to tweak them to my liking. On a side note, take notice that I mentioned one shots. This is vs Loops. I used to use loops but once you start learning more you find out that really you are at the mercy of that mix. It combines elements of snare,kick,cymbals and misc percussion that all have their own (or at least "should")EQ settings. As well, you have little to no control over that loop. It may be a cool sounding 4 bar pattern but that is all you get,unless you start stacking loop over loop...then you just start sliding down hill. With one shots, you can control everything about it. Pop it into your DAW drum rack and start playing.

Thanks. Percussions are not my bright side. I'm far better in synth melodies than drum tracks. Sure, you have better control with one shots than a loop - if you know what your'e doing . I have no formal musical education, and that does not bother me with melodies, it comes natural to me but drums are somehow different to me. I can feel them, but can't really produce interesting drums section. Some theory would help there for sure, if anyone knows a good book please recommend. Thanks for sample sources!

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Originally posted by gordan100 Thanks. Percussions are not my bright side. I'm far better in synth melodies than drum tracks. Sure, you have better control with one shots than a loop - if you know what your'e doing . I have no formal musical education, and that does not bother me with melodies, it comes natural to me but drums are somehow different to me. I can feel them, but can't really produce interesting drums section. Some theory would help there for sure, if anyone knows a good book please recommend. Thanks for sample sources!

Or, perhaps it is a matter of feeling comfortable with making beats.
But ask yourself this, what type of music are you mainly producing?
Granted, not all of your tracks are the same but a vast majority are straight House beats (Kick drum - boom boom boom boom or counting down 1-2-3-4). In other words, they are straight beat patterns. Some are in different tempo,sure..but that is just a slight adjust on timing which is easily done in your DAW (and majority house beats revolve around 120-130 bpm...generally and this may be subjective)
So, in essence you could start of making 4 Bar kick pattern, then you start adding your snare or clap on the second and fourth beat (Kick(1) Snare(2) Kick(3) Snare(4) )
Then, you just keep adding and building.
I have a couple of suggestions for you that I think may very well help you in this area but going to put up a WIP here that may be more self explanatory.
Be back in a few...

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Phil

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Ok Gordan.
I have been told that if you can build a solid percussive track the majority of time, THAT is your song. I agree with this in some ways and have always started my tracks off with building percussion...first
Now then...
This is a straight percussion Track that I previously had started developing. It is 128 bpm which fits in the mold of the tempos you have previously used in your tracks.
This is a total of 15 tracks used which are 95% one shots. Kick (3 are used in total but two kicks are at the same time to blend and add depth) Snare (2 are blended) Clap (2 blended with one channel being only used on the fourth beat and added delay and reverb) Cymbals (5 different cymbal layers or aka Shakers) Sub (which has tail drop that I used by taking one of my Square Wave kicks and detuned) Misc Blips (The 3 tracks that I used that were pre fab one shots that you hear at the beginning)
and SFX which include sweeps and white noise
If you listen through the entire piece, you will notice the layering of percussive elements. In essence you just keep adding and building. However, you need to also learn when to say..enough.




Another thing that could help is just how you are using one shots.
What DAW are you using as well, do you have any Pads on your midi controller (if you have one) as this program is GREAT for new users.
https://melodics.com and totally free

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Phil

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quote:

Originally posted by SystematicX1 Ok Gordan. I have been told that if you can build a solid percussive track the majority of time, THAT is your song. I agree with this in some ways and have always started my tracks off with building percussion...first Now then... This is a straight percussion Track that I previously had started developing. It is 128 bpm which fits in the mold of the tempos you have previously used in your tracks. This is a total of 15 tracks used which are 95% one shots. Kick (3 are used in total but two kicks are at the same time to blend and add depth) Snare (2 are blended) Clap (2 blended with one channel being only used on the fourth beat and added delay and reverb) Cymbals (5 different cymbal layers or aka Shakers) Sub (which has tail drop that I used by taking one of my Square Wave kicks and detuned) Misc Blips (The 3 tracks that I used that were pre fab one shots that you hear at the beginning) and SFX which include sweeps and white noise If you listen through the entire piece, you will notice the layering of percussive elements. In essence you just keep adding and building. However, you need to also learn when to say..enough. Another thing that could help is just how you are using one shots. What DAW are you using as well, do you have any Pads on your midi controller (if you have one) as this program is GREAT for new users. https://melodics.com and totally free

I'm using fl, and have pads on midikeyboard but never used them 15 tracks? Probably too lazy for that I am able to make simple beats, like in this wip under, but i'm rarely satisfied with how that sounds. Will check that melodics.com

Thanks, you have always been very helpful and supportive!

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Last edited by gordan100 on Jun-26-2017 at 21:31

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Originally posted by gordan100 I'm using fl, and have pads on midikeyboard but never used them 15 tracks? Probably too lazy for that I am able to make simple beats, like in this wip under, but i'm rarely satisfied with how that sounds. Will check that melodics.com Thanks, you have always been very helpful and supportive!

These guys on here have helped me tremendously through the years. I have always noticed that if you are involved both ways on this thread that people will support you. And these guys do. Least I can do.
Just keep evolving =O)
As for your WIP. That is a matter of learning EQ and/or finding out which kick suits the song. So many kicks out there in all different octaves. The kick imho in your track seems to crunchy and would be better suited sort of flat tone. Again, EQ
At the same time you obviously understand where percussion elements go. Put em on to yer pads. Make track 1 your kick. EQ it (remember it needs to go mono...matter of fact, make ALL your tracks mono,at least that is what I do)compression. Then repeat the steps on Track 2 with a snare,Track 3 high hat,etc Its tons of fun man =OP

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Phil

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Originally posted by SystematicX1 matter of fact, make ALL your tracks mono,at least that is what I do

Wait, what? Really?

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Wait, what? Really?

I do, at least I have been for about the last 6 tracks.
Not saying that I keep everything in Mono at the end but when I am in initial stages,yep. I put everything in Mono and work in reverse playing with opening up the stereo field when Im in final stages of mixing.
It just seems to fill out better in the end, at least to me

*side note - I "think" I may have very well gotten that from here on TS from our very own Sunny Lax

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Phil

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Ah, I guess that could work if you do it like that. I tend to mix on the fly and do very little tweaking afterwards, so it sounded pretty odd to me.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Ah, I guess that could work if you do it like that. I tend to mix on the fly and do very little tweaking afterwards, so it sounded pretty odd to me.

This is how I am kind of seeing it.
When you put your entire mix in mono you more than likely will hear muddyness which you can easily pin point,at least more so than with a wider stereo field. In Stereo those frequencies are there, you just can't hear them most of the time.
I mix on the fly as well, so for me the steps proceeding are probably the same. Eq, compression,reverbs,delays,the usual suspects.
With EQ, you are now able to dial in on those muddy areas directly and they come through so much more AS to be able to pinpoint.
Give it a try man, I highly suggest it.
Not sure what DAW you use however,but do a test track. Just start with a full mono mix and go about your normal workflow. Pending how far into the mix you choose to go if you establish percussion along with a few tracks of higher frequencies (be it : pads,arps,piano melodies,etc)or at least something that has some body. Then, take off your mono and listen.
You will hear a noticeable difference

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Phil

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I think I'm too set in my ways after 20 years to change now, but I'll definitely try and play around with that idea sometime.

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Latest releases:
Endless Cycles [Capital Heaven]
The Charlatan [Morphosis]