quote:

Originally posted by Mattsanity. Yes indeed. I would be a zealous homosexual if the Bible allowed it.

not everything in the bible is the word of god.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard It is true... RCs have never viewed scripture as the ultimate or stand alone authority. In fact, no Christians did so until the last couple hundred years. If you understood the history of how our present Bibles (I use the plural because there are many, many bibles) came to be and how terribly full of erros, additions, and forgeries it is you would certainly conclude that holding it up as the ultimate authority is pure folly.

God the Son wrote the bible.

over tens of thousands of years, it was polluted through human addition of corruption, social context and strive for power.

the Word of God is in the bible.

not everything in the bible is the word of God.

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Originally posted by Intellekshual Each one of them has a tweaked interpretation of the babble.. ahem, I meant Bible. And until the lord himself gets his lazy ass down here and sets us straight (no pun intended), who's to say who's right?

that is why i'm here. sigh. For it being Judgement Day, you would think this would be more fun. but tis not so.

lazy human beings lead the world to be in this mess. now i have to clean it up. fuck i hate babysitting.

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quote:

Originally posted by TheTrinity God the Son wrote the bible. over tens of thousands of years, it was polluted through human addition of corruption, social context and strive for power. the Word of God is in the bible. not everything in the bible is the word of God.

That's just the sort of ambiguous claptrap I'd expect from religious simpleton, right up there with "the lord works in mysterious ways" when something bad happens and people ask why.

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quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n That's just the sort of ambiguous claptrap I'd expect from religious simpleton, right up there with "the lord works in mysterious ways" when something bad happens and people ask why.

1. nothing i said was ambiguous.

2. god and religion are distinct and separate things.

3. when "something bad happens" it is called an effect. that effect had an evil cause. when people act evil, nature rewards them with disease and death.

4, you expect God to reward evil? God only saves the good. evil is punished with death. this should come to no surprise, there is no mystery about it. another word for "the lord works in mysterious ways" is karma. you reap what you sow.

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quote:

Originally posted by TheTrinity 1. nothing i said was ambiguous. 2. god and religion are distinct and separate things. 3. when "something bad happens" it is called an effect. that effect had an evil cause. when people act evil, nature rewards them with disease and death. 4, you expect God to reward evil? God only saves the good. evil is punished with death. this should come to no surprise, there is no mystery about it. another word for "the lord works in mysterious ways" is karma. you reap what you sow.

1. God's word is in the Bible, but not everything in the Bible is God's word is a fuzzy escape clause for religious zealots to gloss over things that are considered illogical or just down right unethical in the modern world.

2. Both are man-made ideas, but only religion can be proven to exist.

3. If you honestly believe that bad things only happen to bad people, then you need to get a realist check.

4. Oh please, loads of good people suffer, and loads of evil people prosper. I have a vague belief in something similar to karma, but that is nothing like an omnipotent being sitting there making judgements on all living things. Evil is punished with death? Everything that lives eventually dies, so by your logic everything is evil and eventually gets punished.

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quote:

Originally posted by kr00t0n 1. God's word is in the Bible, but not everything in the Bible is God's word is a fuzzy escape clause for religious zealots to gloss over things that are considered illogical or just down right unethical in the modern world.

Now, now... there is a great deal of merit to what he has said (I know, right... like I'm supporting him ). I won't get into whether or not the "word of god" exists let alone whether it can be found in the Bible; however, there is no doubt that the Bible itself has been altered, changed, misinterpreted, forged over time. If you look at is as a collection of books alone than you must at very least accept that through errors in transcription, errors in copying, errors in translation, people deleting passages that were inconsistant with their beliefs, people inserting other passages to support theological arguments, people trying to correct perceived inconsistancies, etc. the original works of the original authors are likely very different in many respects from what we see today. Heck even the writers themselves took a great deal of liberty; John for example changed the date of Jesus' execution to the day before the passover rather than passover itself in order to draw a parallel between the execution of Jesus and the ritual sacrafice of the lambs that usher in the passover of god. Given that a detail as important as when Jesus was executed can get changed to support a given position than what else was changed to support other agendas? We also have outright forgeries like Timothy 1&2 that claim to be written by one author (Paul in this case) but were actually writen by someone else a hundred or so years later and espouses views that were entirely opposed to those that Paul expressed and enacted elsewhere (most noteably; Timothy rails against women being allowed positions of power in the church, whereas Paul set up churchs with women in positions of authority and preached equality). What I'm getting at here is that with so many errors, changes, forgeries, etc. if one believes the word of god can actually be found in the bible they must also believe that not all of it is the word of god... believing otherwise just shows that you don't have a good understanding of the book or it's history.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

the goddamn trinity, fuck off ****.

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quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard Now, now... there is a great deal of merit to what he has said (I know, right... like I'm supporting him ). I won't get into whether or not the "word of god" exists let alone whether it can be found in the Bible; however, there is no doubt that the Bible itself has been altered, changed, misinterpreted, forged over time. If you look at is as a collection of books alone than you must at very least accept that through errors in transcription, errors in copying, errors in translation, people deleting passages that were inconsistant with their beliefs, people inserting other passages to support theological arguments, people trying to correct perceived inconsistancies, etc. the original works of the original authors are likely very different in many respects from what we see today. Heck even the writers themselves took a great deal of liberty; John for example changed the date of Jesus' execution to the day before the passover rather than passover itself in order to draw a parallel between the execution of Jesus and the ritual sacrafice of the lambs that usher in the passover of god. Given that a detail as important as when Jesus was executed can get changed to support a given position than what else was changed to support other agendas? We also have outright forgeries like Timothy 1&2 that claim to be written by one author (Paul in this case) but were actually writen by someone else a hundred or so years later and espouses views that were entirely opposed to those that Paul expressed and enacted elsewhere (most noteably; Timothy rails against women being allowed positions of power in the church, whereas Paul set up churchs with women in positions of authority and preached equality). What I'm getting at here is that with so many errors, changes, forgeries, etc. if one believes the word of god can actually be found in the bible they must also believe that not all of it is the word of god... believing otherwise just shows that you don't have a good understanding of the book or it's history.

Yes, but knowing how inaccurate the book has become, how can any use it as a reference for anything? How can they tell what is legit and what isn't? If you can't, what exactly is the point in the first place?

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Originally posted by kr00t0n Yes, but knowing how inaccurate the book has become, how can any use it as a reference for anything? How can they tell what is legit and what isn't? If you can't, what exactly is the point in the first place?

Well, you can still read some of the nice bits and say "Hey, loving one another is not altogether a bad idea!" and the like

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---i substituted your previous point #1, with your response to moral hazard about point #1 ---

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Originally posted by kr00t0n 1. --Yes, but knowing how inaccurate the book has become, how can any use it as a reference for anything? How can they tell what is legit and what isn't? If you can't, what exactly is the point in the first place?-- 2. Both are man-made ideas, but only religion can be proven to exist. 3. If you honestly believe that bad things only happen to bad people, then you need to get a realist check. 4. Oh please, loads of good people suffer, and loads of evil people prosper. I have a vague belief in something similar to karma, but that is nothing like an omnipotent being sitting there making judgements on all living things. Evil is punished with death? Everything that lives eventually dies, so by your logic everything is evil and eventually gets punished.

1. you can do it through the study of language. language can be analyze for truth, simply by analyzing the connections that language makes, and observing the psychology/philosophy definitions. you cannot separate the use of language from these topics: philosophy, theology, objectivity and psychology. every time you use language, you are describing the way you feel about the world and how much you know about. YES, the most information that there is out in the world, is in the actual use of language and nothing else. language is reality, and to describe a objective reality, you must use language objectively.

2. God the Son has been here on Earth predating the existence of civilization, hence the story of God in Flesh is older than society's current proof of when civilizations began. For as long as there has been a civilization, there has been traces of a story of God being here on Earth, in flesh.

I AM God. I Am Here. Therefore, God exists.

3. where there is evil, there is punishment for evil. If one's suffering from the punishment of evil, comes from internal sources (disease, death...) than that person hath been evil in his life. If the suffering of a good person, comes from external sources of evil (torture, enslavement, murder) and the good person has led a good life, but others cause evil onto him. that person's pain will be acknowledged and justice will be served. evil does not escape the judgement of God. if you are persecuted, and that is the source of evil onto you, it is not yours, and you shall not be punished for it.
if you are the persecutor, and you are the source of evil onto others, than you are evil, and you shall be punished for it.

4. if a good person suffers, god will try to give him strength and reward him for his courage. if an evil person prospers, he does so, by selling his soul to death, and he will not prosper in life beyond Earth.

the universe wants perfection. nature records every action/feeling ever created and it gets stored in the timeline of the universe. omnipotent being is the holder of truth, and justice. only when you know both truth, and justice, is a being allowed to make judgement of what is evil and what is not.

life does not begin, or end on Earth. Earth is a material realm, and it has limited access to the energy realm. Truth cannot be killed, so all life that is true on Earth, Death will not kill. Death only kills that which is evil in nature. if you want to be saved, you must find the Truth. and no i dont mean religion, i mean the actual Truth of The Word Of God. and no i dont mean the whole Bible.(but the greatest source of truth is to analyze the truth of the Bible.) The Truth Of Every Word is the Truth Of God. the truth is not what One, or 7 billion people consider the truth to be. The truth is 'what is actually going on' beyond the illusion of perspective and personal benefit and the strive for power. the truth can be found by analyzing language.

for example: love is good. love is always good. love will always be good. but then, you must look at love. what is love. and then you must analyze every feeling of love, and what constitutes love. you must define everything, and analyze the connections of what makes a feeling , of what makes a word, properly defined, so that it is the truth of it, and hopefully you realize what God is, and what God protects. it is a life long quest, of analyzing language, and reality and beyond.

quote:

Originally posted by God the Son -circa start of civilazations- Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. - 1 Cor 13:4-13

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Last edited by TheTrinity on Jun-14-2012 at 14:12