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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada
Arrow Tunisia, Egypt, yemen, Libya, Bahrain,Syria, Who is next?

I thought I would open a thread and get some discussions going. What is everyone's thought on what is happening today in the Middle East? what do you think the future will look like in the region? I think what is happening there right now is just a begining and we will see more and more protests in the region.

I came acorss this article on how Iran is gaining more control in the region.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...2524eb913decab1

quote:


Iran's allies gain clout and possible softer edges

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — From the Afghan badlands to the Mediterranean, evidence of Iran's reach is easy to spot: a mix of friend and foe for Kabul leaders, a power broker in Iraq, deep alliances with Syria and a big brother to Lebanon's Hezbollah and Hamas in Gaza.

Tehran's proxy portfolio suddenly has a bit more aura after Hezbollah's political gambit — bringing down a pro-Western government in Lebanon and moving into position to pick its successor.

To those keeping score, it would appear that Iran is winning some important points around the Middle East at the expense of Washington and its allies.

But such gains have potential built-in costs, experts say. With Iran's extended family increasingly joining the ranks of power — first in Gaza, then Iraq and now Lebanon — there also comes pressure to moderate and make other compromises often required from those in charge.

It eventually could bring some uncomfortable contrasts for Tehran — with its partners in the region embracing more flexible policies and Iran facing more sanctions and isolation for refusing to make concessions over its nuclear program.

"Certainly there is more visible Iranian influence around the region," said Salman Shaikh, director of The Brookings Doha Center in Qatar. "But these are no longer just vassals of Iran. As they move into political roles, there will be changes that Iran cannot control. We shouldn't look at Lebanon as a zero-sum game between Iran and the West."

The same may hold true elsewhere.

In Iraq, influence from Iran is on the rise now that backers of militant Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr have joined the government in Baghdad, which already had deep ties with Iran. Al-Sadr remains fiercely opposed to American "occupiers" — which his Mahdi Army militia battled for years.

But al-Sadr — who took refuge in Iran in 2007 — showed hints of trying to cultivate a more statesmanlike demeanor during his first visit back to Iraq. Al-Sadr this month held meetings that included pro-Western figures such as President Jalal Talabani and urged Iraq's majority Shiites and Sunnis to look beyond their past bloodshed.

There's little chance that al-Sadr will ease his demands that the Pentagon stick to its timetable to withdraw all troops by the end of the year. And his Iranian links are obvious. At a speech in the Shiite holy city of Najaf, his guards wore Iranian style outfits: identical gray suits with shirts and no ties.

"Yet now he has to answer to the Iraqi people about rebuilding the country," said Hadi Jalo, a political analyst at Baghdad University. "He goes from outsider to insider and that means he has to look in all directions, including the West, and not just toward Iran."

Syria, too, appears to be facing similar choices.

Earlier this month, the first U.S. ambassador to Syria since 2005 took up his post in Damascus. Washington hopes the deeper diplomatic engagement will further nudge Syrian President Bashar Assad into the Western fold and perhaps make him more receptive to future talks with Israel and appeals to cut support for Hezbollah.

About a week later, Iran's acting foreign minister, Ali Akbar Salehi, held talks in Syria over "regional developments," said Syria's state news agency SANA.

High on the agenda was the political upheaval in Lebanon and their roles as co-patrons of Hezbollah, which became heroes in the Muslim world for its war with Israel in 2006. The Shiite militant group has added to its stature by becoming Lebanon's king-maker: On Tuesday, Hezbollah picked billionaire businessman Najib Mikati as its choice for prime minister.

Lebanon's government fell after months of tensions over a U.N.-backed investigation into the 2005 assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. Many Lebanese blamed the killing on Syria and Hezbollah — with huge protests forcing Syria to end its 29-year military presence in Lebanon and opening the way for a pro-Western government led by Saad Hariri, the slain politician's son.

The Hague-based tribunal has issued indictments, but they have not been made public. Many expect Hezbollah to be named.

Mikati, however, immediately sought to ease worries that Iran was now pulling the strings in Lebanon.

"I am not in a confrontation with the West," he told the private LBC station. "We are looking to build good relations with the West."

To some, it's not an empty promise — even as the Obama administration reconsiders its economic and military support for Lebanon, which has totaled $720 million since 2006.

Israeli officials and others have noted that important U.S. allies in the Arab world, such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt, have raised no serious objections to the U.S.-educated Mikati despite their deep-seated worries about Iran.

Saudi Arabia, however, advised its citizens Wednesday not to travel to Lebanon until "the return of calm and stability."

"Lebanon will not suddenly become more Iranian or more 'Hezbollian' than it was two days ago," said a commentary in the Israeli daily Ha'aretz. "It will primarily be more Syrian, and that is a major difference, as Syria — which seeks to move closer to the United States and, thanks to France, sees itself as close to Europe — does not want Iran to seize control in its traditional sphere of influence."

That still doesn't lessen the entrenched suspicions many Lebanese have toward Hezbollah and its backers in Iran.

A secret diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks describes an April 2008 meeting in Beirut in which Lebanon's telecommunications minister at the time, Marwan Hamadeh, tells a U.S. diplomat about a fiber optics network installed in Hezbollah-controlled areas. The memo, from the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, said Hamadeh called it "a strategic victory" for Iran's telecoms agency by creating an "an important Iranian outpost in Lebanon" that further binds Hezbollah to Tehran.

Earlier this week, Lebanon's Sunnis staged two days of riots, decrying Shiite Hezbollah for leading what they called an Iran-linked "coup" in bringing down Hariri's government and bringing in one of its own choosing.

Meir Javedanfar, an Iranian-born political analyst based in Israel, said the unrest cannot be ignored by Iran's ruling clerics.

"It was Hezbollah's actions that convinced many Sunnis to pour into the streets ... shouting 'Death to Hezbollah,'" he said. "This is something which Israel, despite its massive military superiority, could never achieve. Food for thought for Iran's senior decision makers."

Iran also was stung by demonstrations in Afghanistan this month over Tehran's decision to temporarily suspend shipments of fuel over suspicions they were aiding NATO forces. Fuel prices shot up as much as 70 percent in impoverished Afghanistan.

It was a display of both Iran's importance as an economic lifeline to Afghanistan and its apparent sympathies for groups fighting U.S. forces and others. Iran has deep cultural and linguistic ties to much of western Afghanistan, which was once part of the Persian Empire.

U.S. officials have alleged that Iran is providing weapons and other support to the Taliban and the so-called "Quetta Shura" — or governing council — believed led by Taliban commander Mullah Omar. It would, however, be an alliance of convenience that could strengthen the same forces that once targeted Iranians.

Iran was a staunch opponent of the Taliban when it ruled Afghanistan before the U.S.-led invasion triggered by the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

"In the short-term, Iran is playing its hand well, especially in Lebanon," said analyst Javedanfar. "This will boost Iran's position in the region as well as its leverage in negotiations with the West over its nuclear program. However, the Iranian are not playing the long-term game very well."


Is it safe to say the U.S. is losing it's influence in the region? How important is Iran's role in all of this? So much going on and lots to talk about. Lets get a good discussion going like the old days.


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Last edited by hardcore trancer on Feb-24-2012 at 21:20

Old Post Jan-26-2011 18:29 
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Comrade Stalin
Uncle Joe



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Purging Traitors

Hopefully no authoritarian regime collapses only to be replaced by the filth that is political Islam.

Old Post Jan-27-2011 04:46 
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

I agree. Let’s hope that the people will make the right decision. Although I believe we should respect whatever that decision might be.
The final result of all this will probably not make the U.S. that happy, since Egypt is its key ally in the region and if a religious group takes over the country that is bad news for both Israel and the U.S. as well.


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Old Post Jan-27-2011 15:33 
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Comrade Stalin
Uncle Joe



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Purging Traitors

quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
The final result of all this will probably not make the U.S. that happy, since Egypt is its key ally in the region and if a religious group takes over the country that is bad news for both Israel and the U.S. as well.


I would say it would be even more bad news for the Egyptians themselves. A theocracy is no less authoritarian than any autocratic regime. The Egyptians would be incredibly stupid to give the Muslim Brotherhood control of the government because we all know what their true objective is, and that is an Islamic state ruled by Shari'a law.

Old Post Jan-27-2011 18:41 
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

Good article I came across today:

quote:


Analysis: Israel concerned if Mubarak should fall


DUBAI — From Egypt to Jordan and Algeria to Yemen, Tunisia’s “Jasmine Revolution” has begun to undermine Arab regimes that have for decades maintained their control through fear, analysts say.

“The question is who remains,” not which country is next, said Amr Hamzawy, research director at the Carnegie Middle East Centre in Beirut, adding protests could affect most Arab states except for Gulf oil monarchies.

“There have been some protest activities in the past in a scattered manner, but now there is a regional trend where citizens are taking to the streets to protest for social, economic and political rights — it’s not a one-country issue and a one-day phenomenon.”

“What happened in Tunisia has broken the shackles of fear and showed that it was possible — with surprising speed — to topple a regime, and that it wasn’t as difficult as the people imagined,” said Burhan Ghalioun, director of the Centre d’études sur l’Orient Contemporain in Paris who in 1977 wrote a Manifesto for Democracy in the Arab world.

Egyptians have long shared the grievances that drove Tunisians to revolt. Unemployment, low wages and sky-rocketing food prices have all contributed to the rumbling wave of popular discontent.

But the fear of serious strife in Egypt has set alarm bells ringing in Israel.

“The Israeli strategic community is praying that this unrest in Egypt will fade away and not escalate into a prolonged period of instability,” said Gidi Grinstein, founder and president of the respected Reut Institute think tank.

Israel has long sought normal relations with its neighbours, but Egypt was its only Arab associate until the peace process launched by the 1993 Oslo interim accords led to a treaty with Jordan and a few other Arab countries.

However, Egypt remains by far its most important Middle East partner, a regular facilitator in interminable peace negotiations and until now a rock of stability in an otherwise turbulent area.

Israeli officials say in private they cannot believe President Hosni Mubarak will be overthrown by the demonstrations. But if he should fall, there is no guarantee whoever might follow him will continue to tend to Israel ties.

Ordinary Egyptians have never warmed to Israel, despite more than three decades of peace, and regularly blame it for their woes.

“If Mubarak is toppled then Israel will be totally isolated in the region,” said Alon Liel, a former director-general of the Israeli Foreign Ministry and a former ambassador to Turkey.

The unrest in Egypt has also presented the Obama administration with a delicate balancing act, juggling its desire for a return to Middle Eastern stability, its support for democratic principles and its determination to avoid the rise of an anti-U.S. Islamist government in Cairo potentially allied with Iran.

Weighing in for the first time after three days of Egyptian unrest, U.S. President Barack Obama called on Mr. Mubarak to make “absolutely critical” political reforms.

The Arab protest movements have also highlighted weaknesses and the lack of popular legitimacy of some Arab regimes.

“You cannot run society without offering social justice, without distributing revenues in a just manner and without giving people their political freedom and rights. Nobody can accept that in the 21st century, and Arabs are showing they are no exception,” said Mr. Hamzawy.

Ghassan Sharbel, editor-in-chief of the pan-Arab daily Al-Hayat, said, “Either Arab regimes listen to popular demands and decide to start real reforms, or they continue to rely only on the security apparatus, and in that case these regimes could collapse” one after the other.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/wo...1268/story.html



As far as I know no one really knows who could be in power of Mubarak goes. Should be interesting to see how far the Egyptian regime will go stop this unrest.


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Old Post Jan-28-2011 04:30 
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

A good look at whats happening in Lebanon today and its effect on Israel.

quote:


http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/43298.html

Lebanon: Hezbollah’s political triumph

The radical Shiite Islamist Hezbollah has had an extraordinary political elevation in Lebanon.

After causing the collapse of Western-backed Saad Hariri’s government two weeks ago in a row over a UN tribunal investigating the assassination of Saad’s father and Lebanese prime minister, Rafik Hariri, in 2005, Hezbollah now has its nominee, Najib Mikati, appointed as prime minister to form the next government. This shift in power places Lebanese politics on a knife-edge and upsets further the regional status quo in favour of Hezbollah’s supporters, Iran and Syria. It must make the US and Israel wonder where they went wrong.

Despite being designated by Israel, the US and their allies as a terrorist organisation, Hezbollah has moved from strength to strength. Ever since prompting Israel to make a unilateral withdrawal in 2000 from its ‘zone of security’ in southern Lebanon, which it had established as a result of its 1982 invasion of Lebanon, Hezbollah has become a formidable national and regional political and military player. Israel’s military assaults, including the mid-2006 one (which was fully backed by the US and Britain) to weaken or destroy Hezbollah have had no success. If anything, Israeli operations have helped Hezbollah’s stature grow as a popular liberationist organisation not only within Lebanon, but also amongst the Arab and Muslim masses.

Hezbollah’s successes have inspired many Islamist groups in the region, most importantly the Palestinian Sunni Islamist movement, Hamas, which is also branded by Israel and many of its Western supporters, especially the US, as a terrorist organisation. Like Hezbollah, Hamas’s ability to win the democratic January 2006 Palestinian parliamentary elections and to take control of the Gaza Strip in mid-2007, as well as to survive Israel’s major military assault from late 2008 to early 2009 and its illegal and inhumane blockade of Gaza to punish the Gazans collectively for backing Hamas, have assisted Hamas to emerge as another potent force against the Jewish state. However, Hamas does not operate in tandem with Hezbollah. It receives mainly political and moral support from Iran and Syria, but it is nonetheless well placed within the Iranian and Syrian strategic aim of surrounding Israel in a way that the US has encircled Iran from the Gulf, Iraq, Afghanistan and Central Asia. Israel has drawn on the American approach to keep a close eye on Syria and Iran, and the latter two count on Hezbollah and Hamas to moderate Israel.

Hezbollah’s political dominance in Lebanon and its growing military capability have already drawn a bitter and incriminatory response from Hariri’s camp, and the US and Israel. Their sentiment is shared by a number of pro-Western conservative Arab governments, led by those of Saudi Arabia and Egypt. However, there is not much they can do. The authoritarian regime of Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak is also now shaken by a nationwide popular uprising, spurred by the success of the Tunisian people’s toppling of their autocratic ruler in mid-January. In many ways, the scene is set for a bloody confrontation within Lebanon and in the region.

Hezbollah’s political triumph has come about not because it or, for that matter, Iran and Syria, has operated outside the normal political games that political groups play in a pluralist polity and nations enact in pursuit of what they regard to be their national interests. It has acted within the bounds of the complex and overlapping contours of Lebanese politics, based on a consociational model of power-sharing. Under this model the Lebanese presidency is allocated to a Christian, prime ministership is allocated to a Sunni Muslim and the Speakership of the National Assembly to a Shiite Muslim, with the cabinet posts divided between various confessional groups. Hezbollah has been able to master the support of a bloc of parties, which includes Maronite Christians and Druze. If it were not for the backing of these elements (especially the Druze Progressive Socialist Party, led by Walid Jumblatt), Hezbollah would not have been in a position to change the correlation of forces in its favour and secure parliamentary approval for its Sunni nominee, Mikati.

The US and Israeli isolation of Hezbollah and Hamas as terrorist organisations, their double standards towards Iran over its nuclear program, and Israel’s continued occupation of the Syrian Golan Heights and Palestinian lands have played a critical part in the transformation of Hezbollah and Hamas. They, together with the Iraq and Afghanistan fiascos, have also provided Iran and Syria with unique opportunities to advance their regional political and security interests.

The Lebanese problem and that of the Palestinians cannot be equitably and amicably resolved without the US and its allies engaging both Hezbollah and Hamas and Israel withdrawing to its pre-1967 borders. Nor can the overall dire regional situation improve without a US-Iranian rapprochement and US support for democratic reform across the region. Barack Obama seems to be keenly aware of these imperatives, but the pro-Israeli lobby and the long-standing American-Israeli strategic partnership have imposed enormous limitations on him. As long as there is no structural change in the US-Israeli relationship, one can expect forces such as Hezbollah and its backers to remain in a position of growing influence in Lebanon and the region.


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Old Post Jan-28-2011 04:46 
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jad
_.spark._



Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

Great articles. Yemen's next: Yemen: Tens of thousands call on president to leave


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Old Post Jan-28-2011 23:51  Palestine
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

I think at some point we might see the same to happen in Saudi Arabia. Does anyone here think that is a possibilty?


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Old Post Jan-29-2011 01:14 
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jad
_.spark._



Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
I think at some point we might see the same to happen in Saudi Arabia. Does anyone here think that is a possibilty?


Don't think it'll happen. The Al Sauds (corrupt ruling royal family) have a strong grip over their citizens. Also, it's in the locals' best interest to not try to topple the monarchy, as it would cause immense instability in all spheres of their society. Hypothetically speaking, this scenario would certainly lead to the emigration of foreign workers who are a large and influential constituent of the workforce (making up roughly one third of the total population). In this case, the end result would be economic collapse. In other words, Saudi society cannot be solely dependant on its own citizens to keep the country running smoothly. Also, 'Saudiization' (a term that refers to the employment of Saudis in fields usually taken by immigrant workers) has been gaining momentum thoroughout the past decade, but it is still in its early stages.

Surprisingly, there were some recent protests, but they weren't political. A small group of people were protesting against the inexistence of drainage systems in Jeddah. This protest came about in response to the recent floods that took place. It took a serious toll on the infrastructure of the city, leaving it crippled for several days. The protesters were especially enraged by the fact that the government took no action after the floods in 2009. May I add that it has taken many lives, much more than the Saudi gov officially disclosed. The last time I checked it was 11. This is a lot lower than the official figure for the 2009 flood (much worse than the recent one), which was 'officially' led to 77 people.

quote:
Hundreds detained in Saudi Arabia over protests

Saudi authorities detained hundreds of demonstrators on Friday in Jeddah who gathered to protest against poor infrastructure after deadly floods swept through Saudi Arabia's second biggest city, police and witnesses said.

Some Jeddah streets remained submerged on Friday, and electricity was still out in low-lying parts of the city two days after torrential rains caused flooding that killed at least four people and swept away cars.

The protest came after mass messages sent over BlackBerry smart phones called for popular action in response to the flood, an unusual move in the Arab state at a time of spreading anti-government unrest across the Arab world.

Protesters gathered for about 15 minutes after Friday prayers on a main Jeddah shopping street and shouted 'God is Greatest' before authorities broke up the protest and detained participants, a witness who works in a nearby shop told Reuters.

One police officer said around 30 protesters were detained and police were pursuing others who fled to a nearby building. Another officer put the number held at around 50.

About 12 police cars surrounded the building where protesters were hiding, and 30 more blocked off the street near where the protest happened.

A mass message sent via BlackBerry Messenger on Thursday urged Jeddah residents to join a demonstration on Saturday over the floods, while another urged all government and private sector employees to hold a general strike next week. But Friday's protest had been unexpected.

The call for action in the top oil exporter, where public protest is not tolerated, comes as open defiance of authoritarian rulers spreads, with protests in Egypt and Yemen inspired by unrest which toppled Tunisia's president this month.
Source

You also have regular protests outside Saudi embassies regarding the inhumane treatment of Shi'a Muslims within the country, but they don't seem to affect the decisions of the Wahabis in Mecca.


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Old Post Jan-30-2011 18:43  Palestine
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada
Arrow

I received this great article on my email today and I highly suggest everyone to read it, truly amazing:

quote:


ON THE POLITICAL FRONT, given the
political upheaval in Egypt and other countries, we thought it might be worthwhile to note the relative“ages” of the regimes across northern Africa. Moving from West to East, the King of Morocco, Mohammed VI, has been in power since 1999 and he assumed the throne of this constitutional monarchy in July of that year following the death of his father, King Hassan II, who himself had ruled the kingdom since 1961,assuming the kingship from his father, Mohammed V.
King Mohammed VI is rather well liked by his people, and although there are reports from time to time of troubles within the Kingdom, we do not expect to see this monarchy overthrown.
It will survive.
There were reports yesterday in the Spanish media that Morocco’s King Mohammed had organized his military to oppose protests that might develop. The official Moroccan news agency has taken issue with those reports… obviously.

Moving to the east and Algeria, President Abdelaziz Bouteflika has been in power since 1999, having come to power in an election that year in which he won 74% of the vote. We should remember that there were elections to have been held in ’92, but were cancelled
by the military when it became clear that the Islamist oriented Salvation Front was going to win.
The military took control and Bouteflika assumed the Presidency in what most perceive to be reasonably free elections. President Bouteflika has battled al-Queda in the Islamic Maghreb for years and the organisation remains an active, although obviously a small minority force there. AQIM can be expected to ramp up its anti-government activities as a result of the Tunisia/Egypt situation but the military is strong enough and anti-Islamist enough to retain control of the situation.

COMMENTS ON THE CAPITAL MARKETS THE WAGES OF SIN ARE RICHES
ABROAD IN EXILE:

We here in the US and many in Europe really do need to understand just how amazingly corrupt so many of the world’s dictators and
regimes have been in the past fifty years. Kleptocracy is a word now rather common, but not so long ago few really knew what a “Kleptocrat” was, nor did they know just how corrupt these people were... or could be.
The sums of money stolen from nation’s everywhere around the world is mind-numbing, and a reason for the rising anger made evident by the toppling of the regime in Tunisia, the soon-to-be-toppled regime in Egypt, and the not-soon-far-off-toppling of regimes in the Persian Gulf, in the Middle East and across the rest of Africa.
The Financial Times had a recent article noting the high and low range of estimates on the funds stolen by dictators and autocrats around the world, and we thought it worthy of reporting here this morning. These are stunning sums, and in order to be simple, we’ve taken the average of the range of the low “Guesstimate” to the high in order to rank these thieves (to make things right, the FT has issued these figures in ’09 dollars, to account for inflation over the years): Firstly, and standing head-and-shoulders above all others, was the former Shah of Iran, Mohammed Pahlavi, who “stole” $35 billion. Given the present day population of 65 million people, that is approximately $540/capital that the Shah stole… and remember, that is from every single person in the country. This is not an inconsiderable sum.

Next on the list if the always popular Saddam Hussein who “stole” $25 billion. That’s roughly equivalent to $910/capita, so although he stole less money than did the Shaw, he stole nearly twice as much per capita and he shall reign as the champion long into the future. But remember, records are always meant to be broken.
Next is Suharto of Indonesia, who stole just a bit less than $25 billion from the country, but because Indonesia’s population is so much larger than it that of Iran or Iraq his per capita theft was much smaller… "only” a bit more than $105. Suharto then is almost a
gentleman when compared to the other two just above. Houphouet-Boigny of the Cote D’Ivoire had a much smaller county with far fewer economies within the country to steal from, but he still stole plenty. The FT has his “theft” at approximately $8 billion but he stole from a country with only 18 million people, so his per capital theft took him to just under $450/person.
Houphouet-Boigny gave it the “old college try” but just can’t compete with the “Big Boys” like Saddam and the shah.

This then brings us to Ferdinand Marcos and his infamous, shoe-loving wife, Imelda, whom The FT thinks stole approximately $7.5 billion from the people of the Philippines. Given the size of the population there, the Marcos’ were almost humanitarian in their stealing, taking “only” a little more than $80/person from their fellow citizens. A few shoes less and Ms. Marcos might have been an candidate for a Nobel Peace Prize given how readily the Nobel committee gave out the award two years ago to our President who had been in office less than two months. Moving right along then, Mobuto Sese-Seko was always one of our favourite despots, capable of the
most amazingly inhumane tactics against his enemies, killing tens of thousands of his fellow Zairians…. And he robbed the country blind in the slaughtering, stealing $6 billion. Apparently there was just not that much more he could steal at the time, so he succeeded in stealing “only” $90/person, but as a percentage of total GDP, Mobuto is probably the leader of this felonious pack.
The family of President Jose Eduardo dos Santos in Angola has plundered that state, stealing $5 billion and given that there are only a few more than 12 million Angolans, this small sum is sufficient to push Dos Santos into the upper echelons of per capita theft. Dos Santos stole very nearly $420/person from his fellow
citizens. However, we look for President dos Santos to move up the scale over time for he is still in power and Angola is swiftly becoming a petro-power given the huge new oil finds off her coast. Give dos Santos time; we think he has the talent and the inclination to steal another $5 billion in the next few years, pushing him up
the total and the per capital steps.

Then we have Sani Abacha, the former President of Nigeria, who according to the FT’s data stole about $4 billion from that oil rich nation’s coffers. Abacha could have stolen more, but the population of Nigeria makes its life off of corruption, with some many levels of
society stealing from itself the very top simply did have the opportunity to steal what it felt was rightfully its but there was less there to steal than Abacha thought he deserved. Given Nigeria’s huge population, Sani Abach’s “performance” in per capita terms is really verysmall.
He stole “only” $30/person from his fellow Nigerians. We here are almost prepared to give him a Nobel Prize for his honesty in office, for certainly he could have stolen more if he really wanted too… but he died in office of a heart attack after only serving 5 years
as the country President.
Had he had the time in office that the Shah had, or that Saddam had, we are certainly Abacha could have achieved a new record. Sadly, we’ll never know; he was snatched away before his true kleoptocratic skills could be properly honed.

Finally, we have Daniel Arap Moi, the President of Kenya who The FT figures stole “only” $3 billion while in office. This was, however, sufficiently large at just over $80/person to tie him for the 2nd least klepotcratic of those noted here this morning, tied with President and Mrs. Marcos. And where were these sums of money secreted too? Switzerland primarily of course, followed hard upon by
the Isle of Man; Monaco; the Caymans; and several central and South American countries who have tried their hand at offering the world’s criminals safety and sanctuary.


Very long read I know but once you read it you will begin to see why the people in the region are so PISSED OFF at their leaders.


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Old Post Feb-01-2011 19:07 
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

With secession happening in South Sudan, and protests already starting to crop up in Khartoum, keep an eye on Sudan.


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Old Post Feb-02-2011 05:27  United Nations
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

Things are looking very very bad over there right now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698


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Old Post Feb-02-2011 15:45 
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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Tunisia, Egypt, yemen, Libya, Bahrain,Syria, Who is next?
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