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Sykonee
Supreme EMCritic



Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Vancouver, Canada

pkcRAISTLIN
I'm almost certain you've seen this by now, but just in case...




PS: so jealous of George Lucas' playroom. He had all the coolest toys!


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Old Post Aug-31-2019 02:13  Canada
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
Ha I think you're confusing commercial success with with "good" content and they're not necessarily the same thing GoT was utter dross it's only really manchildreden (the same who keep these endless flow of superhero films popular) who like their incest porn to have dragons and swordfights.


that's a weird way to criticise GoT given you could describe 99% of speculative fiction products as being made for manchildren. and i wasn't talking about commercial success which is just a dollar value analysis- i was noting that GoT and BSG are two of the rare nerd products whose quality was so high that they managed to bridge the gap between hardcore manchildren and the well-adjusted adults for whom scifi/fantasy is just childish rubbish. i'm sure you could name shows that you think are far superior yet weren't able to do that.

regardless, my original reference to BSG/GoT related to their grit and awfulness and wasn't a statement of overall quality.

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
I think BSG is an entirely different beast. it firstly was a reboot of existing IP so already had a fan base, and the reboot was really in the grand scheme...


and i think that's a really odd assessment given GoT too also had a prexisting IP and fanbase and one i would assume was far larger than BSG's.

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
lower budget scifi on a scifi network that was a runaway success becuase it was indeed good quality programming and storytelling, as opposed to GoT that was obviously gratuitous geek porn on various levels.


GoT's first 4 or so seasons are the best swords & sorcery epic that the medium has ever produced. i'm not sure why you're so focused on the tits and arse. while that may have been appealing to some in the mainstream it's largely irrelevant to this manchild.

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
Solo had less? I'm not sure we watched the same movies. The whole point that Lucas held off from making 1,2 and 3 the first time round was that Lucas and ILM, who were by far the world leader in FX simply didn't have the tech to create the worlds required for the clone wars etc, and his plan was to make those later when technology eventually caught up.


um, you realise im comparing the prequels to the new films, not the originals to the new films, right? what you've said here supports what im saying (that lucas went overboard with green and blue screens in the prequels). it should be obvious to any viewer (and im happy to admit i know nothing about cinema) that the new films are more "grounded" in real sets, locations, props, costumes etc than the prequels were. and i for one find this change of aesthetic one of the few improvements the new entries have brought to the table.


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Old Post Aug-31-2019 06:38  Australia
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Sykonee
pkcRAISTLIN
I'm almost certain you've seen this by now, but just in case...




PS: so jealous of George Lucas' playroom. He had all the coolest toys!


i hadn't seen it, so thanks! hahaha, the 'grey penis' alien is the first thing i think of when prometheus comes up.


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Old Post Aug-31-2019 06:46  Australia
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
Genuinely confused as to what point apparently makes sense in your head but not on this forum???

I *think* you're trying to suggest that comparing the success of the stars to the show somehow contradicts itself, but it clearly doesn't.

GoT was a commercial product, and all of the "stars" tried to do other similar commercial projects (see Dark Phoenix or the Mi5 spinoff movie for more details) which flopped.

In fact, the only that has done well, was in a show that was really well written, so the point remains, that good and successful can be mutually exclusive and in the case of Got, most definitely were.


I'm just laughing at your apparently infinite ability to grab hold of tangential and irrelevant information and hurl it into arguments like a flash bang, hoping you can dazzle and stupefy for long enough to claim victory.

I'm not even going to bother picking this one apart. You like Prometheus: your opinion on this subject is null and void.


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Old Post Aug-31-2019 08:02  England
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DJ RANN
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Hollywood....

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I'm just laughing at your apparently infinite ability to grab hold of tangential and irrelevant information and hurl it into arguments like a flash bang, hoping you can dazzle and stupefy for long enough to claim victory.

I'm not even going to bother picking this one apart. You like Prometheus: your opinion on this subject is null and void.


Got it; a nothing point that you also can't back up.

It's not really tangential either seeing PKC bought up the subject of mainstream success of GoT and BSG which was an adjunct to the conversation about churning out terrible commercial vehicles just for a low expectation die hard fan base etc.

And please tell me you do realize the whole Promethus thing is tongue in cheek?

I certainly don't have the hate for it that present company does and I'll admit somewhat enjoyed it as I love big budget and atmospheric scifi, but I've only ever seen it once and it probably wouldn't make my top 500 lol. I think PKC realizes that I bring it up as a joke because of the vitriol against it.

Old Post Aug-31-2019 16:26 
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

Of course it's tangential, you immense cretin. The fact PKC specifically wrote "nerd TV that achieved mainstream success while mostly remaining pretty good" shows he very deliberately differentiated between success and quality. Nobody gives a fuck about some Reddit "analysis" of the success of other projects people from Game Of Thrones were involved in. You're like a shit algorithm that randomly returns nuggets of crap you found on Google based on a key word index of whatever's being discussed.


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Mixes:
> Back To Deep [Deep Trippy House]
> Terra Nova [Modern Progressive Trance]
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Old Post Aug-31-2019 17:21  England
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Zoso
Banging Gangs!



Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Dirty South, United States

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
You're like a shit algorithm that randomly returns nuggets of crap you found on Google based on a key word index of whatever's being discussed.


Can we blockchain this and monetize it?

Old Post Aug-31-2019 17:28  United States
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DJ RANN
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Hollywood....

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
that's a weird way to criticise GoT given you could describe 99% of speculative fiction products as being made for manchildren. and i wasn't talking about commercial success which is just a dollar value analysis- i was noting that GoT and BSG are two of the rare nerd products whose quality was so high that they managed to bridge the gap between hardcore manchildren and the well-adjusted adults for whom scifi/fantasy is just childish rubbish. i'm sure you could name shows that you think are far superior yet weren't able to do that.


I'm not sure I agree with that analysis at all. I found GoT to be absolute drivel and a large portion of the user base just watch it as an excuse to see big budget soft porn with dragons and CGI in weekly installments. The acting was terrible, the costumes and makeup and hair laughable (I didn't realize they had peroxide hair bleach in the middle ages) and the plot lines were as convoluted as they were daft, and mainly concluded with that person dying. HBO poured 10's of millions in to production and marketing prior to it ever airing.

BSG I feel is a completely different beast and I think it's flawed to compare because it did well based on it's merits and outgrew the small network it was on.

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
regardless, my original reference to BSG/GoT related to their grit and awfulness and wasn't a statement of overall quality.

Fair enough.


quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
and i think that's a really odd assessment given GoT too also had a prexisting IP and fanbase and one i would assume was far larger than BSG's.


You missed the reboot part; AFAIK GoT had never been made in to a TV series. BSG was a hit TV show in the 80's, then got a sequel, and even the first "new" BSG was a two part miniseries that did so well the expanded to a TV show that ran for 8 years.

Just about anyone growing up in the 80's in the USA (and I even remember it being rerun in the UK) knew BSG and it was prime time TV entertainment at the time - it was kinda poor mans star wars on TV, whereas I'd only vaguely come across the GoT books by the time the series aired. I'm sure D&D geeks were all over those books but it pales in comparison to a multi year hit tv show in terms of IP.



quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
GoT's first 4 or so seasons are the best swords & sorcery epic that the medium has ever produced. i'm not sure why you're so focused on the tits and arse. while that may have been appealing to some in the mainstream it's largely irrelevant to this manchild.


I think you spelled it out yourself in that last sentence (not meaning to insult whatsoever but I think people who are in to "swords and sorcery" will overlook just about anything to get their fix.

Focussed on tits are arse? The main star of the show gets graphically raped at the end of the first episode. She gets taught how to fuck in a pseudo lesbian scene at the beginning of episode two to avoid the nightly rape. By 3 she's completely naked.

And you say I'm the one focussed on that? The show is basically about incest, rape and death, and not so much about plotlines.

I get I'm banging my head against a wall with a fan because I've been down this road before - people who love all that crap just can't see past how bad it actually is.


quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
um, you realise im comparing the prequels to the new films, not the originals to the new films, right? what you've said here supports what im saying (that lucas went overboard with green and blue screens in the prequels). it should be obvious to any viewer (and im happy to admit i know nothing about cinema) that the new films are more "grounded" in real sets, locations, props, costumes etc than the prequels were. and i for one find this change of aesthetic one of the few improvements the new entries have brought to the table.



Totally, I'm agreeing with you on those first points wholeheartedly, ANH, ROTJ etc were grounded as you say but I don't agree that Solo was cut from that same cloth at all, It was a CGI shitfest. Yeah, better than say the Clone wars ls but that's kinda a low bar. The newer movies are certainly better in aesthetics because of things like location filming as opposed to all green-screen but I'm making a specific point about solo, which bizarrely was one of the most expensive movies ever made.

Old Post Aug-31-2019 17:39 
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DJ RANN
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Hollywood....

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Of course it's tangential, you immense cretin. The fact PKC specifically wrote "nerd TV that achieved mainstream success while mostly remaining pretty good" shows he very deliberately differentiated between success and quality. Nobody gives a fuck about some Reddit "analysis" of the success of other projects people from Game Of Thrones were involved in. You're like a shit algorithm that randomly returns nuggets of crap you found on Google based on a key word index of whatever's being discussed.


Fuck it's like watching someone with Tourettes and short term amnesia argue against themselves. You complain it's tangential and then talk about tangential merits?

The point you keep missing is that people hold up the "success" of GoT as some kind of measure of it's quality and as I'm trying to bash unsuccessfully in to your skull is that they are absolutely mutually exclusive....and all this while PKC is still saying that Got was "one of the best Swords and Sorcery" epics" of all time while simultaneously referencing how well it did. It's production values were terrible and actors on the whole were shite, reinforced by the fact that only one of them (who was actually only in a couple of seasons) have produced anything of EITHER quality OR success since. No one looks back on GoT and says, wow that was some fine writing or poignant acting, or it emotionally challenged the audience etc.

Old Post Aug-31-2019 17:58 
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SYSTEM-J
IDKFA.



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

Again: he specifically distinguished success from quality. Just because he simultaneously mentioned them doesn't mean he conflated them. You can't follow an argument spelled out in front of your face.


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Old Post Aug-31-2019 18:48  England
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DJ RANN
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Hollywood....

quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Again: he specifically distinguished success from quality. Just because he simultaneously mentioned them doesn't mean he conflated them. You can't follow an argument spelled out in front of your face.


And I'm telling you, you're listening to voices in your own head, not what was actually written - You'd think a guy that makes signs for a living could see one when it's right in front of them:

quote:
Originally posted by PKC
i just raised GoT examples of nerd TV that achieved mainstream success while mostly remaining pretty good.



quote:
Originally posted by PKC
i was noting that GoT and BSG are two of the rare nerd products whose quality was so high


I'm arguing that GoT was a commercial success despite being a steaming turd of a show, and this is hightlighted by many factors.....including the related point I made about all the actors and their lack of success in anything else during or since.

The bizarre thing about this is I absolutely agree with with you that Hollywood and TV need to stop churning out low quality crap such as GoT and prequels/sequels spinoffs and the only way to facilitate that is to stop supporting them with the fallacy of low expectation fandom.

Old Post Aug-31-2019 19:21 
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Hides in Shadow
Suspended User



Registered: Apr 2019
Location: In Deep Space

Yall are being so nasty to each other, I'm gonna log off


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Old Post Aug-31-2019 22:15  United States
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TranceAddict Forums > Main Forums > Chill Out Room > Some new Rise of Skywalker footage
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