IGK, what the fuck do YOU contribute? Shut the fuck up already you fucking scab. Why are you still trying to participate here? Fuck.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN

That's what I thought Lol pathetic

edit: I even called it, haha

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Last edited by wotyzoid on Jul-12-2018 at 12:00

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You still haven't really grasped my original point from the start. When every individual wants a car, wants to eat copious amounts of meat, wants regular long-haul flights to expensive holidays, wants to buy and dispose of plastic water bottles every time they are thirsty, wants to treat their children to the latest gadgets every Christmas... then yes, the system is irrelevant. There is no economic system that will allow that to happen for every individual who wants it without environmental ruin, certainly not in any realistic time frame.

That's exactly what I thought you said, why are you accusing me of not grasping? We look at this very differently, doesn't mean I can't follow what you're saying. I do appreciate the elaboration though.

You think it's a cultural problem. The way I see it, culture is vapid ass word. Culture is a byproduct of the system. The system itself incentivises the culture. There needs to be a much more fundamental shift in the paradigm, the system has to change, it's not enough that only the people change. That's what we call a revolution.

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Last edited by wotyzoid on Jul-12-2018 at 12:15

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Also, the environmental crisis isn't really due to Capitalism at all. It's the result of over-population of the planet and scientific ignorance for most of human history. We quite literally didn't realise the consequences of our actions, and most people still don't. That's got no inherent relationship to capital or the free market. So no, we're not in this mess due to the current system, and there's no existing evidence from previous regimes that Communism in practice will do any better than Capitalism. Because Communism is a theory from the 1800s before science understood human impact on the environment, before plastics and the combustion engine even existed. Beyond talking about the need to move away from the idea of "endless economic growth", there's nothing I can see in the Communist system that in any way tackles consumption, because it wasn't designed for that purpose. It wasn't even aware of that purpose.

That's kind of a strech and not really the case. For example, we've known of the impacts of burning fossil fuels for a few decades now. Yet we burn more of it now, not less.

https://ourworldindata.org/fossil-fuels

Why does this happen? Because we're all shitty people? Everyone equally? There are glaring fundamentals you are simply choosing to ignore.

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You see, this is exactly the kind of vague rhetoric I said you would lapse into. You started this thread with loads of images of environmental ruin. I'm asking a question you should be able to answer: how would a Communist social system improve the environmental impact of society? You want a serious discussion on this subject, let's have it.

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Mixes:
> Back To Deep [Deep Trippy House]
> Terra Nova [Modern Progressive Trance]
> Rough & Ready [Modern Trance]
>A Different Energy [Good Modern Trance]
> The Edale Mix [Panoramic Beats]

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid That's kind of a strech and not really the case. For example, we've known of the impacts of burning fossil fuels for a few decades now. Yet we burn more of it now, not less. https://ourworldindata.org/fossil-fuels Why does this happen? Because we're all shitty people? Everyone equally? There are glaring fundamentals you are simply choosing to ignore.

Because the planet's population has exploded over the last few decades. The graph of fossil fuel usage in your link looks very similar to a graph of global human population over the same period. Additionally, more of the planet's population have risen out of extreme poverty, which means their carbon footprint increases considerably person-by-person. Is there any mechanism in Communism for limiting population growth?

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Mixes:
> Back To Deep [Deep Trippy House]
> Terra Nova [Modern Progressive Trance]
> Rough & Ready [Modern Trance]
>A Different Energy [Good Modern Trance]
> The Edale Mix [Panoramic Beats]

Dude, you're the one that's being vague. I'm not gonna recite the manifesto for you. Are you asking me how would communism fix this, like we might not have already done irreparable damage? Or are you asking me how would it be different had we gone the other way? You're making a mess.

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There's nothing about this in the manifesto, Kenny. That's my point.

You posted images of environmental ruin as a critique of capitalism. You're banging the drum for Communism. I'm asking a question which isn't remotely vague. How will Communism solve the problem?

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Mixes:
> Back To Deep [Deep Trippy House]
> Terra Nova [Modern Progressive Trance]
> Rough & Ready [Modern Trance]
>A Different Energy [Good Modern Trance]
> The Edale Mix [Panoramic Beats]

I think that's a very vague question. Communism is not some end goal fairy tale, that will fix the horrible environment damage we have already caused.

Now if you're just talking about the "issue" of consumption, communism does address it. "To each according to his needs". You distrubute on the basis of necessecity, not the madness we have now.

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J How will Communism solve the problem?

1. Implement communism.
2. Everyone gets a lot poorer.
3. Population decreases due to people starving / going without medical care.
4. People who survive can't afford to pollute as much because communism made them poor.
5. Problem solved!

Not terrible.

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