quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney it isn't just "inbreeding" . It doesn't account for mating habits ie polygamy. I guess i see what he was trying to do. His original count did not really register as pertinent as i took it for granted some of the more obvious reasons why that sort of calculation isn't accurate. Inbreeding is only a problem in the short run. Those that don't survive don't pass their genes so the fact we are still around is sort of proof that inbreeding can produce diversity. For every retard that dies , you have others that are healthy. But it probably is something you would have to watch unfold over a really long time and not what uncle bob and 12 year old Chrissy spawn. Messy but it worked.

I don't really see it that way. I believe inbreeding can also create diversity as recessive alleled can pair up to create phenotypes. Their offspring can then mate with distantly related species and create diversity and so forth.

Natural selection selects those genes that are best suited for the environment. When the environment changes, it's more likely that we see a change of phenotype in those who are more closely inbred as they are more likely to produce homozygous traits which may in fact prove to be useful in the new environment.


see here

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~ucbhdjm/cours.../InbrDrift.html

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario Your ancestry is not your genes. It's only the answer to how your genes came to be. Seeing siblings spawning offspring is not the same as spreading your unique mutation, and is also pretty much a fail from a biological standpoint.

It's not the same but it can be extremely similar. If your sibling is an identical twin, they can theoretically pass on the exact same genes as you, with additional differentiation coming from the other partner. The offspring takes on half and half from each parent. While the chances are extremely small for two identical twins to pass on the same genes, there still is a chance. Now if they were to pass it onto two other identical twins (male or female), well.... you can see how stupid this gets

These are all wild predictions though. In general, the more offspring with a distant partner, the greater the genetic diversity.

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Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit I don't really see it that way. I believe inbreeding can also create diversity as recessive alleled can pair up to create phenotypes.

Yes, the undersirable types. Why do you think so many problems arise from inbreeding?

This doesn't result in genetic diversity, it practically kills it.

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quote:

Originally posted by Fledz Yes, the undersirable types. Why do you think so many problems arise from inbreeding? This doesn't result in genetic diversity, it practically kills it.

Sure, but think of it this way, Once all undesirable traits are pronounced and the parents die, doesn't the recessive undesirable gene disappear from the genome?

I believe this is how selfing plants continue to exist today and have limited issues with homozygous recessive lethals (evidence is they are still around!)

http://mysite.science.uottawa.ca/rs...n%20et%20al.pdf

Also with regards to some insects, such as cockroaches, they have become susceptible to inbreeding but resiliant to its deletrious effects. For probably over 350 million years now.

http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/...the-inbreeding/


Think about a majority of animal species where there is 1 dominant male who mates for a few generations with other females and his offspring which contain his genes.

So right there you have a greater chance of homozygous recessive genes to be pronounced. This could prove to be a good thing as one of those homozygous recessive genes could translate into a phenotype which is beneficial to the environment. Had inbreeding not been a part of the equation, the trait may not show up for a longer time or ever if the species becomes extinct due to not adapting to the environment.

On the other hand, if there is a homozygous lethal, this is a great opportunity for it to be purged from the system as the continuous inbreeding with that lethal from both sides should purge 25% of the offspring.


So in regular breeding recessive traits homozygous lethals are carried on through generation upon generation.

Mutations (beneficial or detrimental) should be more gradual as recessives are less pronounced. There is also alot more genetic variability as the gene pool is very diverse.


Whereas with inbreeding you have the opposite. recessive lethals are more likely to be purged from the system with continuous inbreeding.

Dominant desirable traits become more pronounced in the system.

You get a quicker basket of phenotype variation as recessive alleles are more likely to pair up.

However It is important to know that with continued inbreeding you begin to lack genetic variation as some traits will be completely eliminated. This is where a single mutation can wipe out the entire species and why gene flow is important.

Nope, it isn't like that at all. In particular because genetics isn't as simple as you think it is. It's not just a straight pair with another pair. Well, at least not in all cases. The alleles can differ.

Then there's also gene mutation as I've already said.

You need to brush up on your biology.

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quote:

Originally posted by OrangestO This isn't about physics, this is about waves.

Some interesting responses that are certainly schooling me in genetics. I obviously overstated the inbreeding part, but we are still not very diversified as a species. I did some reading over the weekend and a leading theory is that due to a catastrophic event (likely a volcanic eruption from the likes of Yellowstone), the current stage of humanity arose from a population of circa 10,000.

Anyway, I saw this today...



... a picture of two colliding galaxies, something that will eventually happen to us and the Andromeda galaxy in roughly 4 billion years.

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If we are going to be talking about modern humans, cladistically speaking, the last clasification would be around 200 thousand years ago with the sub species homo sapiens sapiens.

So when you are talking about "stage" i'm not really sure what kind of measure you are using.

Technically speaking a species should be able to produce fertile offspring with any subgroups within it.

quote:

Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit So when you are talking about "stage" i'm not really sure what kind of measure you are using.

I used 'stage' as an all encompassing term to describe the current state of the human race, population size, diversity etc.

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just wanted to apologize for earlier. I realize you were just highlighting an interesting question about genetic diversity. That your conclusions where not really conclusions but more rhetorical conclusions. So ya. my bad.

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old stuff from days gone by (2001-2004)
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In other cool science news...we have tractors beams now.


Link


Yeah, science is awesome!

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quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose In other cool science news...we have tractors beams now. Link Yeah, science is awesome!

That's rather cool! Shame we're a few years away from dragging enemy spacecraft away from Federation territory.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney just wanted to apologize for earlier. I realize you were just highlighting an interesting question about genetic diversity. That your conclusions where not really conclusions but more rhetorical conclusions. So ya. my bad.

Don't worry about it, I probably would of said something similar.


I've found a video that demonstrates something I posted a while ago, regarding what happens when you pour liquid nitrogen into a coke bottle....




The first one blew up in my face and the second one was thrown out of a 5th floor window, at a group of people having lunch outside.

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