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Raphie
Mastering Engineer



Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Lelystad, Netherlands

basically most new upmarket houses in NL have like 6 or 8 groups and 3 phases


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Old Post Nov-02-2014 15:29  Netherlands
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Andy28
Sandancer



Registered: Jul 2010
Location:

Groups?? Sorry the terminology is different in England, I've only just worked out what rann was saying with the help of storytellers link and I'm an electrician lol.

Old Post Nov-02-2014 16:14 
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Andy28
Sandancer



Registered: Jul 2010
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Robotrance
all european (except in stupid norway up until recently where ground and neutral was combined) houses have 400V 3 phase + neutral + earth in.


In england we mainly use 3 systems. TNS, TNCS, and TT. TNCS where earth and neutral is combined is pretty common around here, but it is very unusual to find a house with 3phases to it.

Old Post Nov-02-2014 21:33 
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Andy28
Sandancer



Registered: Jul 2010
Location:

Yeah kind of... Say you have 3 phase going into a street, 1 phase for 1 house, next phase for the next house and so on etc..

Old Post Nov-02-2014 23:44 
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Storyteller
Supreme tracneaddict



Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Netherlands

quote:
Originally posted by Andy28
Groups?? Sorry the terminology is different in England, I've only just worked out what rann was saying with the help of storytellers link and I'm an electrician lol.


groups = in-house electrical circuit behind a fuse/circuit-breaker.
So he'd have 6-8 seperate circuits in house with their own circuit breaker.


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Old Post Nov-03-2014 10:14  Netherlands
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Andy28
Sandancer



Registered: Jul 2010
Location:

Thanks, I thought as much. We just call them circuits.

Old Post Nov-03-2014 12:01 
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Raphie
Mastering Engineer



Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Lelystad, Netherlands

quote:
Originally posted by Robotrance
all european (except in stupid norway up until recently where ground and neutral was combined) houses have 400V 3 phase + neutral + earth in. from these three faces you will by default have 3 main "buses" of 230V as each phase to earth is 230V.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthi...tem#TN_networks


these 3 buses of 230V can then be devided again into separate 10A, 16A, 25A fuses for separate grains to bathrooms and kitchen, livingroom, bedroom etc.

raphie do you have one of the 3 main phases to your studio only? that is pretty special but it also means that you probably have kitchen and bathroom combined on one phase, and livingroom + bedrooms all on another phase probably with separate fuses for each room or something?

or do you just mean that you have a separate fuse for the studio, ie a grain on one of the main phases? this is a big difference, i would measure earthing if i was you.

Phase 3 is only bedrooms (with no polutors) and studio
indeed one is kitchen and living and 2 are all "wett groups"
within phase 3 i've got my own circuit breaker for the studio
I'm not sure how they did the earth but i had a huge pin been hammered into the floor when house was built, so not sure if i got got 2 or they "upgraded" the pin


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Old Post Nov-03-2014 12:47  Netherlands
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tehlord
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Windsor

So for UK if I wanted a separate circuit for the studio I'd get an electrician to take a fresh feed from the consumer unit, assuming there was capacity there?


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Old Post Nov-03-2014 13:05  United Kingdom
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Andy28
Sandancer



Registered: Jul 2010
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Raphie
I'm not sure how they did the earth but i had a huge pin been hammered into the floor when house was built, so not sure if i got got 2 or they "upgraded" the pin


I can't comment because I know shit about earthing systems in Holland. In England however you would generally only have an earth rod on a TT system, and the earth fault paths can be pretty poor on them compered to say TNS or TNCS where the earth is a cable (either separate or combined with the neutral) that goes all the way back to its source giving very low impedance values, which is what you want (i.e. having a good earth)


quote:
Originally posted by tehlord
So for UK if I wanted a separate circuit for the studio I'd get an electrician to take a fresh feed from the consumer unit, assuming there was capacity there?



Yes but since you probably have a single phase board where everything is essentially common with one another, I doubt there will be any benefit from doing this other than giving you moar power which you don't need anyway as I assume you won't be overloading your existing socket circuit.

Old Post Nov-03-2014 15:47 
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tehlord
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Windsor

quote:
Originally posted by Andy28






Yes but since you probably have a single phase board where everything is essentially common with one another, I doubt there will be any benefit from doing this other than giving you moar power which you don't need anyway as I assume you won't be overloading your existing socket circuit.


What about if I swapped out the consumer unit?

One thing that concerns me in the studio I plan to build is running multiple extension sockets. I'll need to plug in 20-30 devices.


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Old Post Nov-03-2014 21:07  United Kingdom
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Andy28
Sandancer



Registered: Jul 2010
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by tehlord
What about if I swapped out the consumer unit?

One thing that concerns me in the studio I plan to build is running multiple extension sockets. I'll need to plug in 20-30 devices.


If you have spare ways in your existing CU its pointless installing a bigger unit. If you are after a shit load of additional sockets installing then yes it would be better to install a new circuit from the board rather than tapping into an existing ring/radial circuit. One 32amp circuit will be more than enough for you so really you'll only need 1 spare way in your CU. Its not as straight forward as that though, if your consumer unit is not up to current standards, along with your earthing arrangements, all that will need sorting before any new work can be done and it will all need to be tested and certified which could open up a whole can of worms which won't be cheap. If everything is up to date then there is a few other factors to take into consideration but it really shouldn't be a problem. I can't say much else without seeing your setup so your best bet is to get an approved electrician round for an opinion.

Old Post Nov-03-2014 22:07 
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DJ RANN
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Hollywood....

quote:
Originally posted by Raphie
Phase 3 is only bedrooms (with no polutors) and studio
indeed one is kitchen and living and 2 are all "wett groups"
within phase 3 i've got my own circuit breaker for the studio
I'm not sure how they did the earth but i had a huge pin been hammered into the floor when house was built, so not sure if i got got 2 or they "upgraded" the pin


Wow, you either have an absolutely massive house, an over achiever of an electrician did you build out or Holland goes way over the top when it comes to electicity

I've never seen a single family home or apartment getting it's own 400v 3 phase supply unless it's a fucking estate/mansion etc. To do that for every home just seems complete overkill - it's just not needed, but then I suppose if the cost of all that extra is covered by the home owner, then the energy companies are probably hugely thankful and also a reason why you never get voltage drops etc. Totally over the top in my mind,

Palm, what is IT net?

@Geoff - Andy is on the money but I would suggest running a new circuit for the studio from the consumer unit but I would go with a few differnt breakers (not one 32a). Split the lighting circuit on one (flourescents, dimmers etc will really dirty things up) and another for the kit. You also don't want a blown bulb taking out all out your plug sockets

It is pandoras box though if you've got an old house as Andy says; you may have to bring the whole wiring up to current code which in some cases can be a nightmare but if your house was built or at least renovated from 1980 onwards then you're probably alright.

I cannot understand why any leccy would ever allow earth on neutral - it completely defeats the point of having a discrete earth at all.

Old Post Nov-04-2014 05:31 
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