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TranceLover007
DariusX



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Seattle, USA

quote:
Originally posted by SystematicX1
You know actually man, it isn't really a specific thing or even an area.
One thing I have appreciated here on the production forum over the years is the fact that no matter what state the track was, producers here broke it down, for anyone hence the real purpose of this thread

For me, it has always been a kind of reverse psychology. When a true WIP walks in here I have always tried to lend an "ear" and remained perfectly biased.
When I can, I try to break down every aspect of the problem issue in order to come to a pleasing result from the artist.
Fact is, I learn from others track mistakes and oddly enough when I run into areas like that on my tracks, I know what not to do.
So, my whole point is this...
You guys put up these freakin polished mastered bangers that are already complete. And although I really dig and admire your guy's work, I don't learn from it. I have heard WIPs from you guys that sounded really messed up (as they all are). But when I see what you say about what YOU think your track state is in and then I see someone posting something completely different... Well,they are not wrong, it is just a different set of perspective. And this is how I learn,personally.
Gah, this is probably not making any sense and I do apologize D. It isn't meant as a rail only a very light hearted poke lol


I hear you man, tomorrow I will try to walk you through my basic process of getting a new track started.

Cheers,

Darek


___________________
I like that freedom with no boundaries, no restrictions, no rules setup by somebody else – it's only me and my music.

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Old Post Jun-24-2020 07:55  United States
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Storyteller
Supreme tracneaddict



Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Netherlands

Okay, why not.

For me it went like this. I came across this tune (below) on Spotify (discover weekly). I loved the chord progression and set a goal to recreate it and then see what happens.


Projects, for me, always start with a clean slate. No preset config. I imported the tune mentioned above into Ableton, took aan arbitrary piano and started recreating the chords.
When I had the first 4-5 chords (can't quite remember) I put a kick under it to see what placement/timing would do. When I had a progression I liked I started to build a beat.

Usually for me that goes something like this in order:
Kick
Offbeat closed hat
Low perc to get groove going
Mid perc
high perc (put in light reverbed drum track in this project)

Looking at the image below I built up the above list gradually wile sifting through loads of samples. You can see I made a split based on character. Some drum elements I wanted to have light reverb, others heavy.



Then I replaced the midi/piano with a sylenth one factory preset. Added Trillian for bass, with volume automation to mimic side-chaining.



Then I wanted to work on an intro, got my fav synth out (Synth1, free VST) which created the strings that now push the track forward. I modified the chords a bit to make it feel better. As a result they don't really fit with the previous clip anymore. Unintented bonus is I have the potential to create 2 tracks with the same project now .



Now I needed to make it more exciting. I wanted to add some shimmer on top of the chords. Chicane does that all to well so I tried to recreate it. It's basically a simple arp with some supersaw-ish sound from Sylenth1 with a lot of reverb.

Dry


wet


Then I started adding some sfx to make the intro more exciting, because it was just lengthy. Added some shakers in a new drum rack with heavy reverb. Somewhere in between I also played with the chord progression I originally intended. At the end of the preview you can hear a piano version and some electric piano I still intend to use for the second take on this track.

Current state of the track.


If you merge the picture below with the previous picture you can see the full arrangement currently built:


Most synths are highpassed at various frequencies and some drum sounds also individually altered through the drum rack. The drum bus is compressed altogether at the group level with 'The Glue' compressor and on master there is a basic limiter running which gets hit very slightly.

Now, for me, I'm left figuring out how to proceed. No clue.

Questions?


___________________

Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:
If less is more think about how much more more would be.
-Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on Jun-24-2020 at 14:42

Old Post Jun-24-2020 11:45  Netherlands
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SystematicX1
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2010
Location: Washington Coast

OMG This!! I'm going to let this all settle on my brain and I will get back. I know I have questions but can wait.
Thanks guys....THIS!!!!


___________________
Phil

_____________________________________

_____________________________________

Old Post Jun-24-2020 15:03  United States
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Storyteller
Supreme tracneaddict



Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Netherlands

I get where you're coming from. I used to use trackers back in the day (mid 90's). The song files would contain the arrangement and the samples so you could see everything done to make it sound the way it did. Just copying can learn you so much.

This is not quite the same as sharing a project file, but I'm hoping with the seperate parts of audio, somewhat descriptive text and screenshots go a long way.





Spent some time in the studio of (and with) my neighbor last night. We made slight alterations on a track we finished a year ago (called Falling) and sort of finished our second collab as well (called Mai Thai). Some mix & arrangement alterations still needed but would love to have some input if you have any. Especially Mai Thai has some dodgy stuff going on, I think at some point the kick becomes way too loud.


___________________

Storyteller Website | Storyteller @ Facebook | Storyteller @ Beatport | Storyteller @ Soundcloud | Stephen J. Kroos - Europa (Storyteller Remix)
Anthony Mea - Get It On (Storyteller Remix)

quote:
If less is more think about how much more more would be.
-Frasier

Last edited by Storyteller on Jun-24-2020 at 15:15

Old Post Jun-24-2020 15:08  Netherlands
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Mel David
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Sydney

🦉 If you're going to do a mini-tut or breakdown of your track it should be in a new thread. Otherwise it's just going to get lost over time amongst the other posts in this thread.

Old Post Jun-24-2020 19:18  Australia
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SystematicX1
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2010
Location: Washington Coast

quote:
Originally posted by Mel David
🦉 If you're going to do a mini-tut or breakdown of your track it should be in a new thread. Otherwise it's just going to get lost over time amongst the other posts in this thread.


This is true, however....how many of us really post on here? 6?
::edit:: As well, yea this is kind of a Track breakdown but at the same time even though Story is breaking it down on some of the process at the end he is treating it as a WIP and asking for suggestions because the song is unfinished


___________________
Phil

_____________________________________

_____________________________________

Last edited by SystematicX1 on Jun-24-2020 at 19:38

Old Post Jun-24-2020 19:24  United States
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TranceLover007
DariusX



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Seattle, USA

quote:
Originally posted by SystematicX1
This is true, however....how many of us really post on here? 6?
::edit:: As well, yea this is kind of a Track breakdown but at the same time even though Story is breaking it down on some of the process at the end he is treating it as a WIP and asking for suggestions because the song is unfinished


So Phil,

Before I will walk you through my process of creating new track I would like you to look at few different programs/packages which I use:

1) Xfer-Cthulhu (https://xferrecords.com/products/cthulhu)
2) F9-audio (https://www.f9-audio.com/products/f...t=5838947221533)
3) Blackoctopus-sound (Black Octopus Sound - Mega Sample Collectio)

Also
4) U-he-HIVE (https://u-he.com/products/hive/)

This is my base for laying out new concept - first I create new midi track with Cthulhu and send this generated midi to second track with hive on it (you can use any synth software you want in the place of hive) - this will let me go relatively quickly through some different chords progression to generate my melodic idea (in Cthulhu you can add external presets to add more genre specific chords presets). With addition of a kick and snare you can start to generate some basic core of your future track.

Next post will be about drums and bass creation and please let me know if you would like to see any images or sound snippets for clarity.

Darek


___________________
I like that freedom with no boundaries, no restrictions, no rules setup by somebody else – it's only me and my music.

SoundCloud


MySpace

Facebook

DariusX Page

Old Post Jun-24-2020 22:16  United States
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SystematicX1
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2010
Location: Washington Coast

Thanks guys, appreciate the responses. If I may for a moment interject.
I am juggling both of yours and Story's input as well as hitting a track myself atm. The wave hasn't come for awhile so, trying to ride it as much as I can.
I do want to respond in the immediate form however about track layouts.
It isn't that I am not interested in any of that as a matter of fact I find it interesting that I incorporate a hybrid form of what you guys do.

quote:
Projects, for me, always start with a clean slate. No preset config. I imported the tune mentioned above into Ableton, took aan arbitrary piano and started recreating the chords. When I had the first 4-5 chords (can't quite remember) I put a kick under it to see what placement/timing would do. When I had a progression I liked I started to build a beat. Usually for me that goes something like this in order: Kick Offbeat closed hat Low perc to get groove going Mid perc high perc (put in light reverbed drum track in this project)


This is 90% on how I start a track. The difference for me is that I tend to feel for the flow of what I have. If it seems to be leaning towards a percussive side then I tend to build on that. If I happen to have a solid groove in a short period I tend to lean towards adding bass,sub next. On and On..

quote:
1) Xfer-Cthulhu (https://xferrecords.com/products/cthulhu) 2) F9-audio (https://www.f9-audio.com/products/f...t=5838947221533) 3) Blackoctopus-sound (Black Octopus Sound - Mega Sample Collectio) Also 4) U-he-HIVE (https://u-he.com/products/hive/) This is my base for laying out new concept - first I create new midi track with Cthulhu and send this generated midi to second track


Hive is one of my go to's. I have almost their complete line. Almost
Ahhh Cthulhu. I really really need to get this as this is what my style craves in arps. ALL of Dudas stuff is straight up legit. As for your starting with this, I generally do the same if I (again, how my tracks are formed) am feeling that Arp vibe and start off messing around with just ...an arp. It is a different approach than what I listed as Story's way but in context it is all about mood for me.
With that said, IF I start off using an Arp, in this instance you using Cthu, the point of where you start talking about routing to bus is where again...you got me ( I do remember our prior discussion and followed the links but still was stumped at...why)
Now, I know this could get lengthy and I am not sure I am quite prepared for that but with that said...

Most of the questions are based on Dynamics.
I have TONS of issues with Sub gelling in a mix. I use EQ albeit I really have no idea what I am doing say that I can generally gauge by ear and know relatively on a frequency scale what I need to achieve.

Compression for me is not really an issue. Do I understand it? Not even close but at the very least I know how much to and NOT to use.
I low cut filter as much as I can and generally don't get to much frequency battles and If I do I am able to at least recognize it.

I have been messing around with panning and stereo widening on certain elements and just now at a point where I am able to recognize that yet again, things do not need to be an over aggressive amount. Subtly plays.

Again, I still am unable to achieve certain dynamic ranges with my tracks. I use a resource track and try to emulate tones and frequencies but in the end, I just get a muddy tone.

I can say this, a good example will be forth coming from me real soon as I have some tonality issues with a string segment.

Really really really appreciate all of your inputs guys


___________________
Phil

_____________________________________

_____________________________________

Old Post Jun-24-2020 23:00  United States
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TranceLover007
DariusX



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Seattle, USA

quote:
Originally posted by SystematicX1
Thanks guys, appreciate the responses. If I may for a moment interject.
I am juggling both of yours and Story's input as well as hitting a track myself atm. The wave hasn't come for awhile so, trying to ride it as much as I can.
I do want to respond in the immediate form however about track layouts.
It isn't that I am not interested in any of that as a matter of fact I find it interesting that I incorporate a hybrid form of what you guys do.



This is 90% on how I start a track. The difference for me is that I tend to feel for the flow of what I have. If it seems to be leaning towards a percussive side then I tend to build on that. If I happen to have a solid groove in a short period I tend to lean towards adding bass,sub next. On and On..



Hive is one of my go to's. I have almost their complete line. Almost
Ahhh Cthulhu. I really really need to get this as this is what my style craves in arps. ALL of Dudas stuff is straight up legit. As for your starting with this, I generally do the same if I (again, how my tracks are formed) am feeling that Arp vibe and start off messing around with just ...an arp. It is a different approach than what I listed as Story's way but in context it is all about mood for me.
With that said, IF I start off using an Arp, in this instance you using Cthu, the point of where you start talking about routing to bus is where again...you got me ( I do remember our prior discussion and followed the links but still was stumped at...why)
Now, I know this could get lengthy and I am not sure I am quite prepared for that but with that said...

Most of the questions are based on Dynamics.
I have TONS of issues with Sub gelling in a mix. I use EQ albeit I really have no idea what I am doing say that I can generally gauge by ear and know relatively on a frequency scale what I need to achieve.

Compression for me is not really an issue. Do I understand it? Not even close but at the very least I know how much to and NOT to use.
I low cut filter as much as I can and generally don't get to much frequency battles and If I do I am able to at least recognize it.

I have been messing around with panning and stereo widening on certain elements and just now at a point where I am able to recognize that yet again, things do not need to be an over aggressive amount. Subtly plays.

Again, I still am unable to achieve certain dynamic ranges with my tracks. I use a resource track and try to emulate tones and frequencies but in the end, I just get a muddy tone.

I can say this, a good example will be forth coming from me real soon as I have some tonality issues with a string segment.

Really really really appreciate all of your inputs guys


I think we will have much more success when you could upload your WIP for us to download so we can work on it individually and then we can share our result later with you to have more constructive conversation about what and how we did certain things. You will need to export each individual track for us and midi if possible (for different sound selection lol). I also strongly suggest to get this F9-audio toolkit for Ableton (https://www.f9-audio.com/products/f...t=5838947221533)

Let me know if this would work for you?

Darek


___________________
I like that freedom with no boundaries, no restrictions, no rules setup by somebody else – it's only me and my music.

SoundCloud


MySpace

Facebook

DariusX Page

Old Post Jun-25-2020 00:05  United States
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SystematicX1
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2010
Location: Washington Coast



Ok Story,

I was able to listen and view your track breakdown however the Dry and Wet samples didn't appear for me.
What I am getting from this is a very dominant kick. At the beginning is there something underneath that? It is hard to tell on the kick.
When that Pad/Stab loop hits and then widens though....very nice.
In some ways I am visualizing your kick progression notes but replacing them with a subby slap bass like variation drawing out as many notes as you can on that progression. Thinking Jazz
Piano Sax lead overs? It has a very snappy feel and I think it would deserve something organic and crisp over the top.

The other idea I had came listening around 3:11 of this piece and I started thinking and getting this vibing change. For a moment it took on a real tangerine dream feel in which I could hear an analog lead over that.
Thanks for all your input Story. I learn from you guys in ways you can't imagine.

----------------------------

Now then. I kinda pushed the midnight oil tonight on this because I wanted to get it up in at least a presentable manner.
This track is actually so young I am apprehensive of putting it up because I know the areas that need attention.

1: The lack of any sub (at least on the intro)
2: Bass will change or maybe even get layered with current, undecided
3: Pad #1 (non arp) I am having a love/hate relationship with. It probably would be smarter to go with a non analog string and go with some better sampled ones.
4: Piano. This is the stock Ableton Grand sample and personally..I am not impressed.
5: I am getting some irritating cymbal/percussion elements that are a little to high in the mix for my taste. The reversed closed to open High hat before the clap (on the down beat) is questionable.

I am feeling better on this bounce with the composition and about 75% comfortable with the arrangement tones.
I am feeling this is a decent bed I can go with but feel it needs a nice lead over the top somehow.
At around 2:23 is probably the best representation I am trying to achieve.


___________________
Phil

_____________________________________

_____________________________________

Old Post Jun-25-2020 07:43  United States
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TranceLover007
DariusX



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Seattle, USA

quote:
Originally posted by SystematicX1


Ok Story,

I was able to listen and view your track breakdown however the Dry and Wet samples didn't appear for me.
What I am getting from this is a very dominant kick. At the beginning is there something underneath that? It is hard to tell on the kick.
When that Pad/Stab loop hits and then widens though....very nice.
In some ways I am visualizing your kick progression notes but replacing them with a subby slap bass like variation drawing out as many notes as you can on that progression. Thinking Jazz
Piano Sax lead overs? It has a very snappy feel and I think it would deserve something organic and crisp over the top.

The other idea I had came listening around 3:11 of this piece and I started thinking and getting this vibing change. For a moment it took on a real tangerine dream feel in which I could hear an analog lead over that.
Thanks for all your input Story. I learn from you guys in ways you can't imagine.

----------------------------

Now then. I kinda pushed the midnight oil tonight on this because I wanted to get it up in at least a presentable manner.
This track is actually so young I am apprehensive of putting it up because I know the areas that need attention.

1: The lack of any sub (at least on the intro)
2: Bass will change or maybe even get layered with current, undecided
3: Pad #1 (non arp) I am having a love/hate relationship with. It probably would be smarter to go with a non analog string and go with some better sampled ones.
4: Piano. This is the stock Ableton Grand sample and personally..I am not impressed.
5: I am getting some irritating cymbal/percussion elements that are a little to high in the mix for my taste. The reversed closed to open High hat before the clap (on the down beat) is questionable.

I am feeling better on this bounce with the composition and about 75% comfortable with the arrangement tones.
I am feeling this is a decent bed I can go with but feel it needs a nice lead over the top somehow.
At around 2:23 is probably the best representation I am trying to achieve.



Phil,

Can you give me a favorite and render this WIP one more time (maybe like two min in the middle of the track) without piano track (just turn off), I would like to hear how everything seats in it and how kick, drums and bass drives this grove.

Cheers,

Darek


___________________
I like that freedom with no boundaries, no restrictions, no rules setup by somebody else – it's only me and my music.

SoundCloud


MySpace

Facebook

DariusX Page

Old Post Jun-25-2020 20:17  United States
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TranceLover007
DariusX



Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Seattle, USA

Just quick video from my latest WIP - let you see how drums and bass seats in this track. There is some kind of small metallic artifact in this video recording - you can hear it in bass line portion specifically, I think it is a on-board sound card (which for this video I had to switch to) because in reality doesn't exist lol.

Darek


___________________
I like that freedom with no boundaries, no restrictions, no rules setup by somebody else – it's only me and my music.

SoundCloud


MySpace

Facebook

DariusX Page

Last edited by TranceLover007 on Jun-25-2020 at 20:39

Old Post Jun-25-2020 20:30  United States
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TranceAddict Forums > DJing / Production / Promotion > Production Studio > WIP thread (DJRYAN now allowed to post tracks)
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Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackanother breakbeat ID, spun by Adam Freeland [2005] [0]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackConductor And The Cowboy - "Feeling This Way" (Solar Stone Dub) [2002]

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