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tranceaddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > The Official TOTA Toronto Maple Leafs/Hockey Talk Thread
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smuncky
Architect



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: richmond hill, ontario, canada

quote:
Originally posted by The Ear
Who's?

CuJo's?
I'll bet it's CuJo's... I'll guess he went back to using the one he had in the last go 'round w/ the Leafs, trying to turn back the clock & whatnot.


2girls1cup


___________________
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If anyone wants to share their clubbing/nightlife pics go to Toronto Nightlife

"The best car-related innovation we have is not to improve the car, but eliminate the need to drive it everywhere we go. -Alex Steffen

Old Post Sep-23-2008 15:15  Russia
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High on PSI
la crme de la crme



Registered: May 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by The Ear
When has Ron Wilson ever won anything? (other than the fluke USA win in the renamed Canada Cup when it became the World Cup in 1996)

This guy is too soft, and can't get the most out of his elite players.

Just like CuJo, he'll never win the big one.


I guess anyone that hasnt won a cup, wont, right?

Every team he's coached has been a stanley cup contender. Now maybe he's not the best coach out there, and im not suggesting he is, but he his a huge upgrade from Maurice. Anyone that really understands hockey can see that.

and to claim he is soft, shows how little you actually know about him and his coaching style.

Old Post Sep-23-2008 16:19  Canada
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The Ear
Built for debauchery



Registered: May 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by High on PSI
I guess anyone that hasnt won a cup, wont, right?

Every team he's coached has been a stanley cup contender. Now maybe he's not the best coach out there, and im not suggesting he is, but he his a huge upgrade from Maurice. Anyone that really understands hockey can see that.

and to claim he is soft, shows how little you actually know about him and his coaching style.


lol.

I don't think you have any clue as to the level of my understanding of the game.

Now I'm not saying that I'm right all the time, that would be impossible. That said, looking at the style of play his teams have utilized over the years, it is not a winning style. Dump & chase, 2 forwards to the corner on the puck is a common overload style of forecheck, and the typical setup for the cycle. This is what Wilson employs. It requires speed (which the Leafs actually have) and players with the ability to stickhandle in a phone both, play with their head up, and the ability to drive the net if the pass out of the corner is not there... which the Leafs can only dream of having. Once it comes out of the corner, you need a winger driving the middle & appearing out of nowhere in open space, with the ability to hammer the puck, with a damn fast release, & solid accuracy. Again... something the Leafs don't have.

He used this style with the Caps (not a contender) on their fluke run to the finals, prior to that with the Ducks (not a contender), and once more in San Jose (perhaps a contender with a better coach). There's your first problem. With a team like San Jose with so much skill, the break-out & hold at the blue line to set up the trailer would have proved much more successful, especially against Dallas' 2-1-2 setup... but he didn't & out they went...again. Which is absolutely pathetic when one looks at the skill level of last year's edition of the Sharks.

So here's the bottom line happy-ass, the Leafs don't have a team this year (I'm confident that the Wilkes-Barre Penguins could beat them in a best of 7), and by the time they do, Wilson will be turfed out for employing his uninventive, and unsuccessful coaching methods here just like he has everywhere else.

As to his fluke win with team USA in the 1996 WOrld Cup, he had players the likes of which I described above...namely Hull & LeClair at their peaks firing the one timers, and Amonte and Weight leading the forecheck. & even then it took miracle after miracle from Richter to make it happen. And Leafs sure as hell don't have anything close to those 5 players. But he had that in San Jose, & where'd they get to?

/proof

Old Post Sep-23-2008 18:00  Canada
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High on PSI
la crme de la crme



Registered: May 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by The Ear
lol.

I don't think you have any clue as to the level of my understanding of the game.

Now I'm not saying that I'm right all the time, that would be impossible. That said, looking at the style of play his teams have utilized over the years, it is not a winning style. Dump & chase, 2 forwards to the corner on the puck is a common overload style of forecheck, and the typical setup for the cycle. This is what Wilson employs. It requires speed (which the Leafs actually have) and players with the ability to stickhandle in a phone both, play with their head up, and the ability to drive the net if the pass out of the corner is not there... which the Leafs can only dream of having. Once it comes out of the corner, you need a winger driving the middle & appearing out of nowhere in open space, with the ability to hammer the puck, with a damn fast release, & solid accuracy. Again... something the Leafs don't have.

He used this style with the Caps (not a contender) on their fluke run to the finals, prior to that with the Ducks (not a contender), and once more in San Jose (perhaps a contender with a better coach). There's your first problem. With a team like San Jose with so much skill, the break-out & hold at the blue line to set up the trailer would have proved much more successful, especially against Dallas' 2-1-2 setup... but he didn't & out they went...again. Which is absolutely pathetic when one looks at the skill level of last year's edition of the Sharks.

So here's the bottom line happy-ass, the Leafs don't have a team this year (I'm confident that the Wilkes-Barre Penguins could beat them in a best of 7), and by the time they do, Wilson will be turfed out for employing his uninventive, and unsuccessful coaching methods here just like he has everywhere else.

As to his fluke win with team USA in the 1996 WOrld Cup, he had players the likes of which I described above...namely Hull & LeClair at their peaks firing the one timers, and Amonte and Weight leading the forecheck. & even then it took miracle after miracle from Richter to make it happen. And Leafs sure as hell don't have anything close to those 5 players. But he had that in San Jose, & where'd they get to?

/proof




My argument is that he will employ a system that is better for this team that Maurice, and he will be a better coach. Half the season last year he used a friggin two man forecheck which lead to countless odd man rushes the other way. Players got trapped, and it hurt because our speed was not what it is today. He finally got the clue and changed this mid way through. He implemented a man-on-man coverage in the defensive zone lol. Now, we eventually got better at it, but it just wasnt the way he should have went. Teams that could move the puck quickly burned us.

Wilson is an upgrade. Maybe not the coach you want, but thats your problem if you dont like him.

quote:
Originally posted by The Ear
So here's the bottom line happy-ass, the Leafs don't have a team this year (I'm confident that the Wilkes-Barre Penguins could beat them in a best of 7)


LMAO... it takes a big man to predict the leafs not having a good year. That is already everyone's expectations, so thanks, but your bottom line means nothing to me. Your analysis of the caps and sharks systems is great, but incomplete, you only commented on the offensive end. Theres still play in our end and through the neutral zone backcheck.

Last i checked, the biggest issue was addressing the team defense. I think this is where the leafs will benefit the most. Certainly not right away, but probably December onward we should see better. But you're certain we would not be able to be a good AHL team in a best of seven. I guess that means, what, we're a bottom 2 team in the NHL? How about you make that prediction. Especially considering the baby pens fell to the same team the Marlies did.

Your bottom line means nothing.

Old Post Sep-23-2008 19:12  Canada
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The Ear
Built for debauchery



Registered: May 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada

Forechecking styles won't change between the 2. Wilson has always applied the 2 in on the dump in forechecking style. Fletcher gets credit where it's due for upgrading team speed.

As to getting burned on the back-check, you can credit the ice time wasted by McCabe & Tucker et al for the odd man rushes.

As for the upgrade in D, it's minimal. Finger will show that while he's not worth all the $ he's getting, he'll be a stabilizing force at the back, similar to what Lefevbre was in the early 90's. But this all falls on the GM.

Anyway, here's the kicker... I don't even cheer for the Leafs, or any other team for that matter. I haven't cheered for a team in particular since the early 90's when I used to cheer for the Hawks b/c I enojyed that high-speed breakout combined with an absolutely malicious forecheck & and an even grittier style of play in their own zone. Problem was, they didn't have an answer for the size and skill of the Pens when they met in the finals. But I stopped cheering for the Hawks and any other team b/c I found by watching just one team play, I was missing the best of the hockey action on many a night (gotta love NHL Centre Ice!).

So to say that I'm upset b/c Wilson isn't my choice as coach makes little sense. What I'm tired of is unfounded optimism from the majority of Leaf fans. It's this optimism coupled with an undying love of the team to fill the Leafs' pockets with $ despite their inability (and perhaps desire) to ice a winner, that irks me.

There's no excuse for one of the NHL's flagship franchises and the team in it's biggest hockey market to continue this tradition of mismanagemnt.

This is what I'm tired of. I cannot fathom how a team like the Devils is able to convince someone like Brent Sutter to finally come to coach in the NHL and the Leafs cannot. Given the systemic failure that is the organization, it's time to bring about some innovation in terms of coaching, systems, and management style. Once this occurs, the Leafs will start to build a winner.

So enough with people like Quinn (never won a thing), Maurice (ditto), and Wilson (a more experienced version of Maurice). Time for something new. Someone who can run a team with flexible rotating offensive & defensive schemes (a la Babcock), or at least by hiring a coach that is able to take young players to the next level (see Michel Therrien) b/c they'll be in a good draft position for the next few years. Of course, to make use of that, they'll need a real scouting team, which is another rant altogether, and someone who isn't going to be mistaken for Father Time in the GM's seat.

As for the Leafs finishing bottom 2 in the league... Yup. That's where they'll be, fighting it out for lottery placement. If not, they're fools, as multiple years of mid-round picks will only further exacerbate their current situation. & yes, that is a recommendation for tanking it this year.

As for going into more systems analysis on the defensive side, no problem, ask the questions & I'll happily answer away. I love this game, and hey, if you or anyone else is up for setting up a regular hockey night at a sportsbar in downtown that does the NHL Centre Ice style with all games available, I'm all in for that. Of course, I've got that at home too, so if it's not downtown, there's little incentive to go elsewhere.

Cheers.

Old Post Sep-23-2008 19:48  Canada
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smuncky
Architect



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: richmond hill, ontario, canada

quote:
Originally posted by The Ear
Of course, I've got that at home too, so if it's not downtown, there's little incentive to go elsewhere.

Cheers.



party at the ear's house!!!


___________________
Deviant Art - Smuncky
My Photos on Flickr
If anyone wants to share their clubbing/nightlife pics go to Toronto Nightlife

"The best car-related innovation we have is not to improve the car, but eliminate the need to drive it everywhere we go. -Alex Steffen

Old Post Sep-23-2008 19:54  Russia
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elFreak
Blood Diamonds and Salsa



Registered: Feb 2008
Location: With Juan Pachanga Eating Tacos. Ah Ha Si Mi Gusta.



we will give you him.

couldn't hurt.


___________________
Le Freak - Set Archive

Le Freak - A.D.D & Chimichurri [Techno/Tech House/Music to put on burritos.]*click bitches*

Old Post Sep-23-2008 20:02 
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ChemEnhanced
Ӄۃn߃nڃՃރ



Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Milton, ON Canada

quote:
Originally posted by elFreak


we will give you him.

couldn't hurt.


thanks but we already have


___________________
quote:
Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.


Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

Old Post Sep-23-2008 20:09  Canada
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elFreak
Blood Diamonds and Salsa



Registered: Feb 2008
Location: With Juan Pachanga Eating Tacos. Ah Ha Si Mi Gusta.

i was talking about for your first line.


___________________
Le Freak - Set Archive

Le Freak - A.D.D & Chimichurri [Techno/Tech House/Music to put on burritos.]*click bitches*

Old Post Sep-23-2008 20:22 
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ChemEnhanced
Ӄۃn߃nڃՃރ



Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Milton, ON Canada

quote:
Originally posted by elFreak
i was talking about for your first line.


I think he would be better suited for Goal....Carlton The Bear is more a power forward so he will be fronting the first line.


___________________
quote:
Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.


Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

Old Post Sep-23-2008 20:27  Canada
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elFreak
Blood Diamonds and Salsa



Registered: Feb 2008
Location: With Juan Pachanga Eating Tacos. Ah Ha Si Mi Gusta.

i think toscala is actually one of the few bright spots on this year's leafs team.


___________________
Le Freak - Set Archive

Le Freak - A.D.D & Chimichurri [Techno/Tech House/Music to put on burritos.]*click bitches*

Old Post Sep-23-2008 20:29 
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High on PSI
la crme de la crme



Registered: May 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by The Ear
Forechecking styles won't change between the 2. Wilson has always applied the 2 in on the dump in forechecking style. Fletcher gets credit where it's due for upgrading team speed.

As to getting burned on the back-check, you can credit the ice time wasted by McCabe & Tucker et al for the odd man rushes.

As for the upgrade in D, it's minimal. Finger will show that while he's not worth all the $ he's getting, he'll be a stabilizing force at the back, similar to what Lefevbre was in the early 90's. But this all falls on the GM.

Anyway, here's the kicker... I don't even cheer for the Leafs, or any other team for that matter. I haven't cheered for a team in particular since the early 90's when I used to cheer for the Hawks b/c I enojyed that high-speed breakout combined with an absolutely malicious forecheck & and an even grittier style of play in their own zone. Problem was, they didn't have an answer for the size and skill of the Pens when they met in the finals. But I stopped cheering for the Hawks and any other team b/c I found by watching just one team play, I was missing the best of the hockey action on many a night (gotta love NHL Centre Ice!).

So to say that I'm upset b/c Wilson isn't my choice as coach makes little sense. What I'm tired of is unfounded optimism from the majority of Leaf fans. It's this optimism coupled with an undying love of the team to fill the Leafs' pockets with $ despite their inability (and perhaps desire) to ice a winner, that irks me.

There's no excuse for one of the NHL's flagship franchises and the team in it's biggest hockey market to continue this tradition of mismanagemnt.

This is what I'm tired of. I cannot fathom how a team like the Devils is able to convince someone like Brent Sutter to finally come to coach in the NHL and the Leafs cannot. Given the systemic failure that is the organization, it's time to bring about some innovation in terms of coaching, systems, and management style. Once this occurs, the Leafs will start to build a winner.

So enough with people like Quinn (never won a thing), Maurice (ditto), and Wilson (a more experienced version of Maurice). Time for something new. Someone who can run a team with flexible rotating offensive & defensive schemes (a la Babcock), or at least by hiring a coach that is able to take young players to the next level (see Michel Therrien) b/c they'll be in a good draft position for the next few years. Of course, to make use of that, they'll need a real scouting team, which is another rant altogether, and someone who isn't going to be mistaken for Father Time in the GM's seat.

As for the Leafs finishing bottom 2 in the league... Yup. That's where they'll be, fighting it out for lottery placement. If not, they're fools, as multiple years of mid-round picks will only further exacerbate their current situation. & yes, that is a recommendation for tanking it this year.

As for going into more systems analysis on the defensive side, no problem, ask the questions & I'll happily answer away. I love this game, and hey, if you or anyone else is up for setting up a regular hockey night at a sportsbar in downtown that does the NHL Centre Ice style with all games available, I'm all in for that. Of course, I've got that at home too, so if it's not downtown, there's little incentive to go elsewhere.

Cheers.


The forecheck style was an issue because leaf skaters were not as quick as they are today. I think Wilson will let them do their own thing in the offensive zone for the most part, let them be creative while really concentrating into buying into the defensive system. But hey, we're only one preseason game in, we'll see.

I suggested you were upset with the choice of Wilson of coach because thats what you first replied about. Brent Sutter is a great coach, and if they brought him in before NJ could, I would have been very happy. Unfortunately, they can only bring in who is available and Fletcher obviously felt Wilson was that man. He has proven to bring defensive structure, and this is one team that needs it. I also agree that if you can change up your system on the fly it will be a huge advantage (specifically in the playoffs when you are in best of 7).

I personally dont think they will end up a bottom 2 team, i think they will do better than that, and not end up with a lottery pick. If they got a top two pick, that would be great, but as a Leaf fan, im not that optimistic.

Cheers.

Old Post Sep-24-2008 15:17  Canada
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tranceaddict Forums > Local Scene Info / Discussion / EDM Event Listings > Canada > Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont. > The Official TOTA Toronto Maple Leafs/Hockey Talk Thread
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