quote:

Originally posted by Quazar The fire bat-signal thing without anyone (military, Bane, etc.) noticing is much more over-the-top, but I just brushed it off as "Fuck yeah, Batman!".

Also, that's a very minor plot point - it's just a bit of "Fuck yeah, Batman!" garnish that doesn't really have much importance to the plot. The sewer thing is one of the most important parts of the whole film, in terms of plot.

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Mixes:
> Live @ J00F Editions, 30.03.13 [Chill Out]
> Time & Space [Mixtape]
> Ain't Nothing Going On But The Funk [Breakbeat Classics]
> The Singularity [Drum & Bass]
> Distant Places [Progressive Trance]

I Am Not A Music Journalist.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J And finally, I'm not sure who the fuck you are to declare my post "irrelevant"

He's the German inquisitor: He won't let anyone post anything remotely intellectual, lest we mention the forbidden one. It's heaps of fun though, and you should totally give it a try. He usually squeaks a little and posts a cat picture when we do that.

Here: Hey, Meat! SCHOPENHAUER!!!

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quote:

Originally said by Adolf Fleisch Hitler How naive can people be? Curing the COR with messy hair and philosophy?

quote:

Originally said by Maurice Moss I came here to kick ass and drink milk... and I've just finished my milk

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J

1. Don't conveniently twist things people say. Bane is not the key point of my "iconic character" problem, he's not iconic enough for that. That applied much more to Catwoman. Or Alfred. Or Batman. Does Catwoman feel like an actual person to you in this movie? To me she doesn't.
And I have no idea why you bring up Tim Burton's movies. Other than maybe deliberately misunderstanding "comic book world" as a goofy bubble-gum place. Nolan's gritty style has nothing to do with the argument I was trying to make. You might even mean a very similar thing yourself when talking about a "tonally awkward attempt to mix grittiness with (essentially) high fantasy".

This is a main reason why I find starting a discussion with you fruitless: you put more effort into picking on details, wording and things that you believe conclude from the argument instead of trying to understand it's core point. Ironically, that's almost exactly the issue I have with your take on the movie.

2. I didn't even refer to your main post in the text you quoted but solely to the oversimplification "Why does Batman have to be Batman?".

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Write out your own opinion

No. That stage is all yours.
I just wish you made better use of it by.

Edit: Well, people seem to be fine with it. So indeed who am I to demand more insightful and relevant analysis without even trying to offer it myself. I guess I'll just shut up about movies around here in the future when I can't be arsed to type down a long tirade and defend it with even longer ones.

___________________

Then stop coloring and visit Meat187's mix archive!

Last edited by Meat187 on Aug-09-2012 at 08:54

quote:

Originally posted by Meat187 1. Don't conveniently twist things people say. Bane is not the key point of my "iconic character" problem, he's not iconic enough for that. That applied much more to Catwoman. Or Alfred. Or Batman. Does Catwoman feel like an actual person to you in this movie? To me she doesn't.

This is rich. You mentioned Bane second in your list of iconic characters, and completely ommitted Catwoman and Alfred, and when I reply citing that same character you mentioned (and the one who's ridiculous plan was central to my grievance in my post) you're accusing me of "twisting" things?

Let's recap, because you're clearly incapable of following the thread of your own argument. The following line:

quote:

What I do criticize as inconsequential and irrelevant to the movie's actual problems is when this premise is generally accepted and then individual parts of it are picked out and dissected

...means you're criticising my complaints as "inconsequential and irrelevant" because I've accepted that I'm watching a superhero movie and then I'm taking issues with the genre's modus operandi. That has nothing to do with my throwaway sarcasm "WHY DOES BATMAN HAVE TO BE BATMAN?" so stop trying to retcon the debate, you hypocritical shit.

What I have replied to you with is the perfectly valid point that Nolan's films are atypical of the genre and they do not require the viewer accepting your "premise" (IE: a certain set of genre mechanics) in order to be validly interpreted. And what you are doing now is losing track of what you have said and expecting me to be stupid enough not to notice. No dice. If I can spot the holes in Bane's sinister masterplan, I can sure as hell spot them in your bumbling rear guard action.

If you don't want to start a discussion with me, stop replying to my posts with sarcastic little swipes from the sidelines. It's quite pathetic that you already made one little backhand comment about it, and when the praise carried on rolling in you felt compelled to make a second post instructing everyone on how "irrelevant" my opinion is, as if people give the first fuck about what Meat187 tells them about someone else's post they've already read.

___________________
Mixes:
> Live @ J00F Editions, 30.03.13 [Chill Out]
> Time & Space [Mixtape]
> Ain't Nothing Going On But The Funk [Breakbeat Classics]
> The Singularity [Drum & Bass]
> Distant Places [Progressive Trance]

I Am Not A Music Journalist.

Whatever. Believe that you refuted everything I said if you wish. No need to go on with this any longer. I should have seen this coming but hoped it would be possible to get some points across and add to your (imho) incomplete and one-sided views. Turns out I was wrong.
Sad to see you getting more and more personal in every post.

___________________

Then stop coloring and visit Meat187's mix archive!

Last edited by Meat187 on Aug-09-2012 at 09:39

quote:

Originally posted by Meat187 Sushi, in a rare case of having a clue, understands that despite the plot inconsistencies he can still enjoy the movie, because they are not highly relevant for the movie's specific universe and what it tries to do. Another Aussie, PKC, too expresses how he thinks these issues are true but minor once. But of them understand that Jack is just spewing a load of irrelevant crap that fails to address the actual strengths and weaknesses of the movie. But watch how both just humbly express their admiration and humbly applaud him, without even thinking about expressing their own concerns. Why? Because they know that if someone rants this long and eloquently about something irrelevant he can and will just kill any contrary opinion by even longer, better worded hammers of text. So yeah, I agree, brilliant debating skills indeed.

i dont pretend to have the depth of knowledge SJ does when it comes to these things. i hated that part of english, im the kind of person that wants to enjoy film/tv for what it is, rather than the (supposed) underlying wank of how complex or meaningful it is.

if SJ had said anything i disagreed with i would've mentioned it. you'll note that earlier in the thread my biggest gripe was the "tell, not show" that existed throughout the film.

i didn't express my concerns for the film because i don't consider myself very knowledgeable on the subject. i just know what i like or don't. you know way more stuff than me but i was still willing to correct some of your poor BSG assumptions

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN

Don't worry, I didn't misinterpret you. That was more of a tongue-in-cheek comment on how I think his review misses some crucial points.

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ha fair call. and i'd agree, but i wasn't really thinking it was a full review. just a focus on a couple aspects (which i think he's right about, for what its worth).

quote:

Originally posted by Meat187 Whatever. Believe that you refuted everything I said if you wish. No need to go on with this any longer. I should have seen this coming but hoped it would be possible to get some points across and add to your (imho) incomplete and one-sided views. Turns out I was wrong. Sad to see you getting more and more personal in every post.

Of course they're incomplete and one-sided. I started my post by saying "I can't be bothered to write a full essay", just as you can't ever be bothered to put any of your full opinions out in public in any of these threads where you try and shit on other people's thoughtful posts, and it was a post of my issues with the film, so why would it need to be anything other than one-sided?

And you're sad I'm getting personal? What do you think you're doing Meat, when you post about me "spewing irrelevant crap"? Is that not a personal remark because it doesn't contain a direct insult? You're acting like a fucking prick to me and you do it all the time, making these cowardly digs from the safety of "I'm too lazy to risk putting my own views out there", and then when I get fucking annoyed with this behaviour (and absolutely demolish your points, to boot) you have the temerity to shake your head and say how sad it is, as though you're somehow perched on the high ground?

If you were trying to get some points across, you need to seriously rethink how you communicate with people. Or let me guess? You're about to pull a Nou and whip out the I TROLL U card. Save it for someone more naive.

___________________
Mixes:
> Live @ J00F Editions, 30.03.13 [Chill Out]
> Time & Space [Mixtape]
> Ain't Nothing Going On But The Funk [Breakbeat Classics]
> The Singularity [Drum & Bass]
> Distant Places [Progressive Trance]

I Am Not A Music Journalist.

Let it go, man.
If you really consider "spewing irrelevant crap" an insult in the context of an obviously tongue-in-cheek post that doesn't directly address you then I'm sorry.

And if you find the way I try to communicate opinions annoying or cowardly then I'm also sorry.

Of course it's my fault that I apparently failed to make a clear distinction between my point about iconic characters and the one about how I think Nolan's universe deals with the three superheroes /-villains I named. Of course it's also my fault that I couldn't be bothered to furiously argue it against you. But your ways, especially posts like the previous one, don't make it any more inviting.

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Then stop coloring and visit Meat187's mix archive!

Last edited by Meat187 on Aug-09-2012 at 10:55

you don't sound sorry.

You don't sound heterosexual.

___________________

Then stop coloring and visit Meat187's mix archive!