Registered: May 2012
Location: Spirit of the Universe
quote:
Originally posted by Moral Hazard
It is true... RCs have never viewed scripture as the ultimate or stand alone authority. In fact, no Christians did so until the last couple hundred years. If you understood the history of how our present Bibles (I use the plural because there are many, many bibles) came to be and how terribly full of erros, additions, and forgeries it is you would certainly conclude that holding it up as the ultimate authority is pure folly.
God the Son wrote the bible.
over tens of thousands of years, it was polluted through human addition of corruption, social context and strive for power.
the Word of God is in the bible.
not everything in the bible is the word of God.
___________________
--because God is Infinitely Simple, God can only appear to the finite mind as infinitely complex.--
Originally posted by TheTrinity
God the Son wrote the bible.
over tens of thousands of years, it was polluted through human addition of corruption, social context and strive for power.
the Word of God is in the bible.
not everything in the bible is the word of God.
That's just the sort of ambiguous claptrap I'd expect from religious simpleton, right up there with "the lord works in mysterious ways" when something bad happens and people ask why.
Registered: May 2012
Location: Spirit of the Universe
quote:
Originally posted by kr00t0n
That's just the sort of ambiguous claptrap I'd expect from religious simpleton, right up there with "the lord works in mysterious ways" when something bad happens and people ask why.
1. nothing i said was ambiguous.
2. god and religion are distinct and separate things.
3. when "something bad happens" it is called an effect. that effect had an evil cause. when people act evil, nature rewards them with disease and death.
4, you expect God to reward evil? God only saves the good. evil is punished with death. this should come to no surprise, there is no mystery about it. another word for "the lord works in mysterious ways" is karma. you reap what you sow.
___________________
--because God is Infinitely Simple, God can only appear to the finite mind as infinitely complex.--
Originally posted by TheTrinity
1. nothing i said was ambiguous.
2. god and religion are distinct and separate things.
3. when "something bad happens" it is called an effect. that effect had an evil cause. when people act evil, nature rewards them with disease and death.
4, you expect God to reward evil? God only saves the good. evil is punished with death. this should come to no surprise, there is no mystery about it. another word for "the lord works in mysterious ways" is karma. you reap what you sow.
1. God's word is in the Bible, but not everything in the Bible is God's word is a fuzzy escape clause for religious zealots to gloss over things that are considered illogical or just down right unethical in the modern world.
2. Both are man-made ideas, but only religion can be proven to exist.
3. If you honestly believe that bad things only happen to bad people, then you need to get a realist check.
4. Oh please, loads of good people suffer, and loads of evil people prosper. I have a vague belief in something similar to karma, but that is nothing like an omnipotent being sitting there making judgements on all living things. Evil is punished with death? Everything that lives eventually dies, so by your logic everything is evil and eventually gets punished.
Originally posted by kr00t0n
1. God's word is in the Bible, but not everything in the Bible is God's word is a fuzzy escape clause for religious zealots to gloss over things that are considered illogical or just down right unethical in the modern world.
Now, now... there is a great deal of merit to what he has said (I know, right... like I'm supporting him ). I won't get into whether or not the "word of god" exists let alone whether it can be found in the Bible; however, there is no doubt that the Bible itself has been altered, changed, misinterpreted, forged over time. If you look at is as a collection of books alone than you must at very least accept that through errors in transcription, errors in copying, errors in translation, people deleting passages that were inconsistant with their beliefs, people inserting other passages to support theological arguments, people trying to correct perceived inconsistancies, etc. the original works of the original authors are likely very different in many respects from what we see today. Heck even the writers themselves took a great deal of liberty; John for example changed the date of Jesus' execution to the day before the passover rather than passover itself in order to draw a parallel between the execution of Jesus and the ritual sacrafice of the lambs that usher in the passover of god. Given that a detail as important as when Jesus was executed can get changed to support a given position than what else was changed to support other agendas? We also have outright forgeries like Timothy 1&2 that claim to be written by one author (Paul in this case) but were actually writen by someone else a hundred or so years later and espouses views that were entirely opposed to those that Paul expressed and enacted elsewhere (most noteably; Timothy rails against women being allowed positions of power in the church, whereas Paul set up churchs with women in positions of authority and preached equality). What I'm getting at here is that with so many errors, changes, forgeries, etc. if one believes the word of god can actually be found in the bible they must also believe that not all of it is the word of god... believing otherwise just shows that you don't have a good understanding of the book or it's history.
___________________
quote:
Originally posted by RickyM
you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down
Jun-14-2012 12:55
Lagrangian
tranceaddict
Registered: Feb 2012
Location:
the goddamn trinity, fuck off ****.
Jun-14-2012 13:50
kr00t0n
Archduke of Awesome
Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Hibernating
quote:
Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Now, now... there is a great deal of merit to what he has said (I know, right... like I'm supporting him ). I won't get into whether or not the "word of god" exists let alone whether it can be found in the Bible; however, there is no doubt that the Bible itself has been altered, changed, misinterpreted, forged over time. If you look at is as a collection of books alone than you must at very least accept that through errors in transcription, errors in copying, errors in translation, people deleting passages that were inconsistant with their beliefs, people inserting other passages to support theological arguments, people trying to correct perceived inconsistancies, etc. the original works of the original authors are likely very different in many respects from what we see today. Heck even the writers themselves took a great deal of liberty; John for example changed the date of Jesus' execution to the day before the passover rather than passover itself in order to draw a parallel between the execution of Jesus and the ritual sacrafice of the lambs that usher in the passover of god. Given that a detail as important as when Jesus was executed can get changed to support a given position than what else was changed to support other agendas? We also have outright forgeries like Timothy 1&2 that claim to be written by one author (Paul in this case) but were actually writen by someone else a hundred or so years later and espouses views that were entirely opposed to those that Paul expressed and enacted elsewhere (most noteably; Timothy rails against women being allowed positions of power in the church, whereas Paul set up churchs with women in positions of authority and preached equality). What I'm getting at here is that with so many errors, changes, forgeries, etc. if one believes the word of god can actually be found in the bible they must also believe that not all of it is the word of god... believing otherwise just shows that you don't have a good understanding of the book or it's history.
Yes, but knowing how inaccurate the book has become, how can any use it as a reference for anything? How can they tell what is legit and what isn't? If you can't, what exactly is the point in the first place?
Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil Formerly known as: Maaz
quote:
Originally posted by kr00t0n
Yes, but knowing how inaccurate the book has become, how can any use it as a reference for anything? How can they tell what is legit and what isn't? If you can't, what exactly is the point in the first place?
Well, you can still read some of the nice bits and say "Hey, loving one another is not altogether a bad idea!" and the like
). I won't get into whether or not the "word of god" exists let alone whether it can be found in the Bible; however, there is no doubt that the Bible itself has been altered, changed, misinterpreted, forged over time. If you look at is as a collection of books alone than you must at very least accept that through errors in transcription, errors in copying, errors in translation, people deleting passages that were inconsistant with their beliefs, people inserting other passages to support theological arguments, people trying to correct perceived inconsistancies, etc. the original works of the original authors are likely very different in many respects from what we see today. Heck even the writers themselves took a great deal of liberty; John for example changed the date of Jesus' execution to the day before the passover rather than passover itself in order to draw a parallel between the execution of Jesus and the ritual sacrafice of the lambs that usher in the passover of god. Given that a detail as important as when Jesus was executed can get changed to support a given position than what else was changed to support other agendas? We also have outright forgeries like Timothy 1&2 that claim to be written by one author (Paul in this case) but were actually writen by someone else a hundred or so years later and espouses views that were entirely opposed to those that Paul expressed and enacted elsewhere (most noteably; Timothy rails against women being allowed positions of power in the church, whereas Paul set up churchs with women in positions of authority and preached equality). What I'm getting at here is that with so many errors, changes, forgeries, etc. if one believes the word of god can actually be found in the bible they must also believe that not all of it is the word of god... believing otherwise just shows that you don't have a good understanding of the book or it's history.
