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DOOMBOT
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Lews
To play devil's advocate for a moment, do you have any statistics to back up robbers stealing firearms rather than being scared off or shot? It's the same argument here, on both sides, but I'm curious as to what the stats say.

Gun laws are much more strict in Brazil then they are in the USA. Many people in Brazil don't have a way of defending themselves like they do in the USA, which leaves them more open to things like being robbed. A lot of people simply rely on other people who are in gangs to protect them, which is obviously a bad thing to have to do. So obviously strict gun laws don't help the situation, they typically have the reverse effect. If a state makes it more difficult for people to protect themselves, they leave them wide open to attacks from crazy people who are going to get them anyway.

Old Post Jul-23-2012 00:13 
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Joss Weatherby
kinda retired...



Registered: May 2008
Location: the boneyard

... you're an idiot.


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Old Post Jul-23-2012 00:14 
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DOOMBOT
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
... you're an idiot.

Impressive argument. Got me there.

Old Post Jul-23-2012 00:18 
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netroM
42



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Trondheim

quote:
Originally posted by DOOMBOT
inane babbling about everyone should have a gun in brazil


Can you not read? I mean, just two posts above you is this:
quote:
There was a survey investigating what happened in Rio when an armed robber attacked both an armed and a disarmed target: The odds of the target being shot was 180x higher if they were armed, and the chances of getting hurt was 57x higher if they had a gun.


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Old Post Jul-23-2012 00:26  Norway
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Joss Weatherby
kinda retired...



Registered: May 2008
Location: the boneyard

quote:
Originally posted by DOOMBOT
Impressive argument. Got me there.



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Old Post Jul-23-2012 00:29 
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DOOMBOT
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by netroM
Can you not read? I mean, just two posts above you is this:

Oh damn, didn't realize that 1 survey was the end all be all on this subject. I mean, I guess if I found a survey that argued the opposite, I could use the same stupid logic that you are right now.

Out of curiosity, did you read the survey that was written in Portuguese?

The fact still remains; it's a country with a lot of violence and strict gun laws. I suppose the argument of many here is that if Brazil's gun laws were similar to the ones in the USA, their violent crime figures would be highers. This is something that needs to be proven on your part.

Last edited by DOOMBOT on Jul-23-2012 at 00:36

Old Post Jul-23-2012 00:31 
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Lews
Platipus And Prog Addict



Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Hugging Whales And Saving Trees

Do you have a study that shows the opposite? Or a study showing what happened in similar cases in the United States?


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Old Post Jul-23-2012 02:47 
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DOOMBOT
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
Location:

Here is a recent event that just occurred.

http://www.therightscoop.com/awesom...afe-in-florida/
http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...-fatal-shooting

Old Post Jul-23-2012 03:41 
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EddieZilker
This is the dance.



Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Marijuana Sex Camp

quote:
Originally posted by DOOMBOT
Here is a recent event that just occurred.

http://www.therightscoop.com/awesom...afe-in-florida/
http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...-fatal-shooting


I somehow doubt a single anecdotal outlier in support of your claim amounts to much.


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Old Post Jul-23-2012 03:47  United States
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Lira
Put on robe & wizard hat!



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Brasilia, Brazil Formerly known as: Maaz

quote:
Originally posted by DOOMBOT
So obviously strict gun laws don't help the situation, they typically have the reverse effect.

Actually, it seems not. I wish I had a better piece of evidence than the document I posted, but Brazil is not exactly famous for having legions of number-crunching statisticians telling us what our country is like, so I guess it'll do for now.

The reason why people appear on the news when they kill the robber, I believe, is because a successful defence is much rarer (and much more awesome) than a failed attempt. It's the same reason why aeroplane crashes receive a lot more media attention than the numerous car accidents that happen in any given country: you report what's rare, not what's common.


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Old Post Jul-23-2012 04:13 
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DOOMBOT
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by EddieZilker
I somehow doubt a single anecdotal outlier in support of your claim amounts to much.

There are many more out there.

God I love Google.

Even better that you still try to find a way to skirt around a real life example of what I'm talking about.

Last edited by DOOMBOT on Jul-23-2012 at 05:07

Old Post Jul-23-2012 04:17 
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DOOMBOT
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Lira
Actually, it seems not. I wish I had a better piece of evidence than the document I posted, but Brazil is not exactly famous for having legions of number-crunching statisticians telling us what our country is like, so I guess it'll do for now.

The reason why people appear on the news when they kill the robber, I believe, is because a successful defence is much rarer (and much more awesome) than a failed attempt. It's the same reason why aeroplane crashes receive a lot more media attention than the numerous car accidents that happen in any given country: you report what's rare, not what's common.

Which is why relying on the news, for example, isn't usually the most reliable source of information for things. When I look at Brazil, I don't really feel that it is very hard to figure out why there are as many violent crimes as there are. As mentioned before, gun laws are extremely strict and any time I talk with Brazilians on the issue, they seem to have the belief that these gun laws are necessary, all while they lay defenseless to crimes committed to those people who are going to get these guns anyway and commit a violent act.

On the flip side, you take a country like the USA, where yes it does have its share of problems, doesn't seem to have the level of violent crimes as countries like Brazil. I believe it is because more people have the ability to defend themselves here then countries like in Brazil. A robber is probably going to think twice about robbing a house in Bucks County, PA for example, knowing that more then every other house probably has someone living there ready to defend themselves with gun. In Brazil, robbers are most likely thinking the exact opposite.

My opinion though. I still love Brazil and its people.

Old Post Jul-23-2012 04:39 
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