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Filling in the low-end between kicks
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| cenik |
Question for you guys.
What kinds of things do you do to fill in the low-end in your track in between the kicks? I ask because I've noticed that in a lot of house music there is considerable low-end pounding out in between the kicks which sounds just as thumpy as the kicks themselves.
I'm interested most especially in getting the low-end in the bass-line to stand out. I realize, of course, that the bass-line itself has to have low-end frequencies. At the moment I am layering my bass-lines: e.g. duplicate the track, place it on another channel, and lower the volume of the second channel. That process seems to help the mids/highs stand out a bit more. (While we're chatting about layering, is this the right process or am I confused?). I also know that you can take your bass-line and apply a feedback preset to get that nice grainy kinda of sound. I guess you could also EQ the low-end frequencies on the bass-line up a Db or two.
Am I missing something or have I basically covered a few of the most common ways to get the low-end sounds in between the kicks to stand out?
Thank you in advance for any advice. |
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| Eric J |
Well it depends on what exactly you are going for. The low end of a lot of bass lines really hits in the 100-200 range, depending on the timbre, the notes and how your bass is arranged. One of the reasons the "oompa" bass lines became so popular is that you do not have a ton of overlap between the kick and bass because they do not hit at the same time. However, if you kick and bass generally hit at the same time at some point, you really have to decide what you want filling in that sub-100 range. Sidechaining can help to tame the kick/bass interaction at certain frequencies, but you still need to perform some clean up EQ and I do not like relying on sidechaining to fix something that should be properly EQ'd in the first place.
The question you have to ask yourself is: Is it going to be kick or is it going to be bass at sub-100? Generally in trance, the bass lines rarely dip below 100 as that space is left for the kick drum low frequencies. Other genres prefer to let the bass occupy that really low frequency, especially genres where sub-bass is important.
The trade off there is that is the bass is in the really low frequencies then the kick isn't going to be as boomy. Sometimes that is a good thing, as you may not want a kick with a lot of boom. Remember also, that the "punch" in a kick is generally situated somewhere between 75 and 150, depending on your source material. I would not rely on trying to boost too many frequencies when EQing your bass and kick, but rather cutting to make room.
Personally, I generally let the kick occupy everything below 100 and the bass rides above that. This works for me because I make Progressive House & Trance and that's generally how to get the low end sound I am looking for. A Hip-hop producer is a good example of someone that may do the exact opposite: allow the bass to occupy that sub 100 freq and the kick sit above that. |
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| paulc_dj |
what would you say would be the rule in house/electro? I generally roll off everything apart from the bass and kick below 100 and boost my bass at about 60ish and dip my kick there and again at around 90, but the other way round and then again boost my bass at about 250 and dip the kick a bit here. It kinda separates them a bit.
PC |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by paulc_dj
what would you say would be the rule in house/electro? I generally roll off everything apart from the bass and kick below 100 and boost my bass at about 60ish and dip my kick there and again at around 90, but the other way round and then again boost my bass at about 250 and dip the kick a bit here. It kinda separates them a bit.
PC |
Be advised that none of these things are considered "rules", lest we stifle some great young talents. That being said, house and electro house can go either way on this one. A lot of deep house has very low bass and the kick will sit on top of that. Other forms of house will follow the "kick on bottom" method. Electro House generally has the kick occupying the low frequency as those "farty-basses" are a lot more treble-y than your average house or trance bass.
The key is to experiment and find what works best for you and your track. If it doesn't sound right with the kick below the bass, try flipping it around and see what happens. The results may surprise you! |
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| derail |
| quote: | Originally posted by cenik
At the moment I am layering my bass-lines: e.g. duplicate the track, place it on another channel, and lower the volume of the second channel. That process seems to help the mids/highs stand out a bit more. (While we're chatting about layering, is this the right process or am I confused?). |
Nobody seems to have addressed this. If you're duplicating the sound exactly, then there's no point - adding a little bit of the duplicate is exactly the same as simply turning the volume up on the original channel.
Normally when people layer bass sounds (by layering here I'm assuming they are playing exactly the same notes, maybe an octave apart but not necessarily) they either:
1) Layer different sounds together - for example, a low sub bass with no highs or mids, and a different type of bass with all the low end cut away, in a way that the two bass sounds merge into one and provide the sound the person is looking for. Having a separate sub bass is handy, since you can sort out any clashes between the kick and sub bass on just that sound, and leave the main audible part of the bass (the higher bass sound) intact, if you wish.
2) Layer the same sound on separate tracks, but arrive at the same result - one may have all the mids and highs removed, the other the low frequencies removed. Same deal, you could sidechain just the low end and the mids and highs won't get affected. (or instead of sidechaining, some other form of volume automation, or even cutting away some notes from the recorded waveforms, where the sub bass overlaps with the kick - we get to do many fun things).
Of course, there are plenty of excellent basses which aren't layered at all. And many instances of a sub bass and a higher bass playing different sequences of notes. Whatever works best for your music! |
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| airwalker1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by cenik
Question for you guys.
What kinds of things do you do to fill in the low-end in your track in between the kicks? I ask because I've noticed that in a lot of house music there is considerable low-end pounding out in between the kicks which sounds just as thumpy as the kicks themselves.
I'm interested most especially in getting the low-end in the bass-line to stand out. I realize, of course, that the bass-line itself has to have low-end frequencies. At the moment I am layering my bass-lines: e.g. duplicate the track, place it on another channel, and lower the volume of the second channel. That process seems to help the mids/highs stand out a bit more. (While we're chatting about layering, is this the right process or am I confused?). I also know that you can take your bass-line and apply a feedback preset to get that nice grainy kinda of sound. I guess you could also EQ the low-end frequencies on the bass-line up a Db or two.
Am I missing something or have I basically covered a few of the most common ways to get the low-end sounds in between the kicks to stand out?
Thank you in advance for any advice. |
the best advice i can give you is look for at least 3 bass ocktives/or notes.to do this simpley make 3 copys of your bassline then find the notes that fit.keep one bassline on c then move the next over to d or e and so on.hope that helps |
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| cenik |
| Thank you for the replies gents! |
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| cybernetica |
| sine waves win. Its in my experience the best you can do to the lowest frequency area. If you need something to fill the space, add a pure, unmodulated sine wave that swings somewhere around 40-60Hz, and that is in the same pitch as the main bassline... and of course sidechain it with the kick. You can barely "hear" these waves, but they add a whole new level of warmth to your track. Make sure to cut the sub frequencies from your other bass a little so you dont get muddiness in the low area. |
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