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Sub Woofer Delay?
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| 504pro |
I own the BX5a's, BX8a's and the SBX10. At the moment I only have the 5's plugged into the sub b/c the company I ordered cables from sent the wrong cables. When I play the SBX10 with the 5's in my production environment, I hear a slight delay that seems to be the sub bass hitting after the 5's hit. At first I thought it was an audible mirage of sorts. Illusion for the ears.
When I play tracks that are from CD's of pro artists I can't tell if there is a slight delay. I don't hear one that is as noticeable as the tracks I play in my DAW.
I have Googled & searched this topic with many asking this same question but no real answers.
One theory I came up with is that the 5's are putting out less power than the 10 and if I hook up the 8's this problem will vanish. More of a hope than a theory.
Any ideas? |
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| DJ RANN |
Ideas?
Yes, buy some monitors that aren't crap.
OK, so I'm only half joking; It's just a sound perception thing and chances are some reflections and standing waves are making you think they're arriving at different times.
2 suggestions:
1, Get some decent speakers.
2, Stop using a sub. Last time i checked, stereo did not have a dedicated LFE channel ;) |
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| Looney4Clooney |
I enjoy my sub. One thing I would suggest is to not use the crossover. Basically leave your speakers with the full bandwidth and use the sub to add to the bass , not replace.
i have the old genelec 1029s. I actually have a 5.1 setup but found it way too complicated and just out of my league but still kept the sub. If i mix, it is usually at pretty low volumes. Lower than the suggested 80dB. So having a sub helps. I also bypass the speakers and just listen to the bass portion alot. Gives you an idea of the bass elements and their overall mix. But genelecs aren't bad speakers and the sub is matched for the speaker so I suppose it isn't so bad.
I do believe that speakers with sub outs have a built in delay. Rann would know more. I am no hardware guy. I just broke a 52 inch lcd screen and have no idea what to do with it now.
I submitted a 5.1 stem mix and they laughed. Stick to stereo i believe was their take home message. I think you just need to work in these rooms and just learn from people that have pioneered it. But if you ever get the chance to sit in on a session , you will be hearing things from behind and you will turn your head which makes the front sound like it is comb filtering. And you like bug out. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
I enjoy my sub. One thing I would suggest is to not use the crossover. Basically leave your speakers with the full bandwidth and use the sub to add to the bass , not replace.
i have the old genelec 1029s. I actually have a 5.1 setup but found it way too complicated and just out of my league but still kept the sub. If i mix, it is usually at pretty low volumes. Lower than the suggested 80dB. So having a sub helps. I also bypass the speakers and just listen to the bass portion alot. Gives you an idea of the bass elements and their overall mix. But genelecs aren't bad speakers and the sub is matched for the speaker so I suppose it isn't so bad.
I do believe that speakers with sub outs have a built in delay. Rann would know more. I am no hardware guy. I just broke a 52 inch lcd screen and have no idea what to do with it now.
I submitted a 5.1 stem mix and they laughed. Stick to stereo i believe was their take home message. I think you just need to work in these rooms and just learn from people that have pioneered it. But if you ever get the chance to sit in on a session , you will be hearing things from behind and you will turn your head which makes the front sound like it is comb filtering. And you like bug out. |
Enjoy is the key word here - if people enjoy using a sub for listening /entertainment purposes, then that's of course fine, but subs on a stereo system just cause way too many problems to worth trying to get the balance right. In fairness you're in a slightly different position because you mainly do score and compositional work where chances are, it will end up on a system that has a dedicated LFE channel, so you can kind of use the sub as a draft .1 preview.
Also, in general the better the speakers, the better they will integrate with a sub, and the Gene's are designed with surround mixing in mind, so they work just fine when properly setup in a system that is configured for a discrete LFE channel.
As for using the crossover, it really depends on the rest of the system. For just Stereo, i don't think a sub is a good idea anyway, but if you must, I think for speakers, you should use the crossover, as you don't want that crappy monitor driver trying to put our muddy bass, then just making it worse with adding a layer of true sub. If they are good speakers, I wouldn't want the sub in the signal chain to the speakers as a crossover, and would probably dial back slightly on the bass response on the monitors and use the sub sparingly, but both of them essentially getting the same full signal.
With surround systems, this is really a mute point, as the .1 has it's own channel, so no need to pass or go through anything (again this highlights the flaw with Stereo & sub systems). In terms of delay, yes some systems have delay options, and even some very advanced monitoring management systems have options to delay speaker signals, but these are really fixes for room problems, and frankly the biggest issue is sub placement, which if done right will negate any need for delays. It's a different story for live sound reinforcement though, where the distances are greater and due to frequency/amplitude dissipation, there needs to be specific according compensation.
Bypassing all the speakers except one at a time is good practice - often at the end of a cue mix, the engineer will just listen to a LFE channel to double check it. Same with the fronts, then same with the rears. |
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| Looney4Clooney |
I think I just listen at very low level and the bass needs to be reinforced. But ya, if I was going to start doing EDM again which is on the drawing board, I would get some more appropriate ones.
But even then I don't know what it is but I really listen at low levels. Maybe my music is that bad. Lol. Or I'm getting old. But like even conducting , not often , but man that is hard to take. I have these molds that cut 10 dB. Great for music and girlfriends.
But just the fletcher curve would kinda make bass response at lower levels not there. I don't change volume ever o I don't think it Is so bad. |
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| orTofønChiLd |
| having a sub sucks |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| Ya hear the on gearslutz? If you can't actually explain and understand what your opinion entails, that is a good indication to shut it. |
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