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-- WIP thread (DJRYAN now allowed to post tracks)
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quote:

Originally posted by gordan100 More sustained bass and piano, not very creative lately 4th Dimension Club � 600

Actually really dig this...wish you would work more on it tbh and clean it up. Got a lot of potential Gordan

quote:

Originally posted by zsm yea those uncreative sustain basses *gets uncomfortable

Nice one Gordan. Nice theme and chilled/plucky. I agree with SystematicX1 that some cleaning in the mix would help.

quote:

Originally posted by zsm shiiet got locked out of my other account.

Kinda late here, but oh hai mate.

Do you want me to get your MSZ password from Swamper?

quote:

Originally posted by gordan100 More sustained bass and piano, not very creative lately 4th Dimension Club � 600

🦉 I like the solid kick & sub bass. The snare does sound a tad lo-fi. Surely you can find a better snare sample & a hi-hat or shaker pattern as well. But it's promising & kudos for posting the entire track unlike some of the shy boys above.

Thanks for all your comments guys

I've cleaned it up a bit

quote:

Originally posted by TranceLover007 Which key is this track in?

I missed this one earlier. I know nothing about music theory so I'm guessing Emaj or something similar.

quote:

Originally posted by gordan100 Thanks for all your comments guys I've cleaned it up a bit 4th Dimension Club � 600.1

Really nice work Gordan, this calmness in your production is like velvet in touch man - got yourself something worth going around for shopping lol

Cheers,

Darek

quote:

Originally posted by zsm hi and no need its fine :} i feel fresh this way.

Alrighty then. Hope you're well mate!

quote:

Originally posted by gordan100 Thanks for all your comments guys I've cleaned it up a bit 4th Dimension Club � 600.1

I want to throw this out there because your work on this track is worth it.
I do hear a difference and now that I am hearing a cleaner tone in the percussion it has now exposed another muddy element (Gotta love that eh)
It is that initial Arp that is muddy and is battling your sub frequencies. Which, listening again to the sub seems to need some "clarifying" cleanup as well. Curious question, is your Sub in Kick mono? I am getting some widening there that "shouldn't" be. Wondering if some sidechain compression might help on that

🦉 Side-chaining kick & bass should always be done if they are occupying similar frequencies in the mix. This helps the kick punch through. If you want the effect less audible, a multi-band compressor can be used so that you are only ducking 20-90 Hz of the bassline.

Have you tried to cut a bit of the low frequency of the arp pattern or transposing it an octave or +5 or some other interval? Some mix engineers hi-pass almost everything just to make sure there are no unnecessary low frequencies, which may not be audible on one track but accumulates across many tracks.



Also worth a try: duplicate that arp pattern & change the notes to be kick drums & use this for the compressor sidechain trigger. This pattern's audio is not routed to the main mix output, only the compressor to act as a trigger. May have to fiddle with the lengths of the MIDI notes & the release & attack time of the compressor.

Duplicate the main melody & use strings so you've got two layers now which will help to differentiate it from the arp pattern.

Just another WIP for my collection lol - I know that one day I will have to start to releasing some of them but as of right now I'm going through with some of my ideas and later pick the best ones.


Cheers,

Darek

quote:

Originally posted by TranceLover007 Just another WIP for my colection lol - I know that one day I will have to start to releasing some of them but as of right now I'm going through with some of my ideas and later pick the best ones. Cheers, Darek DariusX. � 22JUNE2020 New Funk Chillout Concept

Damn you D!!! ::sigh:: I seriously wish you guys would stop with this. Between YOU and Story putting up these freakin bomb ass finished tracks, how about you guys share your methods.
I mean, like you guys need ANY critiquing,screw that....teach us of our lost ways...lol
Good shit D, as always lol

quote:

Originally posted by SystematicX1 Damn you D!!! ::sigh:: I seriously wish you guys would stop with this. Between YOU and Story putting up these freakin bomb ass finished tracks, how about you guys share your methods. I mean, like you guys need ANY critiquing,screw that....teach us of our lost ways...lol Good shit D, as always lol

Lol - appreciate man, you are to kind

As far as my production technique - what would you like to know?

Darek

quote:

Originally posted by TranceLover007 Lol - appreciate man, you are to kind As far as my production technique - what would you like to know? Darek

You know actually man, it isn't really a specific thing or even an area.
One thing I have appreciated here on the production forum over the years is the fact that no matter what state the track was, producers here broke it down, for anyone hence the real purpose of this thread

For me, it has always been a kind of reverse psychology. When a true WIP walks in here I have always tried to lend an "ear" and remained perfectly biased.
When I can, I try to break down every aspect of the problem issue in order to come to a pleasing result from the artist.
Fact is, I learn from others track mistakes and oddly enough when I run into areas like that on my tracks, I know what not to do.
So, my whole point is this...
You guys put up these freakin polished mastered bangers that are already complete. And although I really dig and admire your guy's work, I don't learn from it. I have heard WIPs from you guys that sounded really messed up (as they all are). But when I see what you say about what YOU think your track state is in and then I see someone posting something completely different... Well,they are not wrong, it is just a different set of perspective. And this is how I learn,personally.
Gah, this is probably not making any sense and I do apologize D. It isn't meant as a rail only a very light hearted poke lol

quote:

Originally posted by SystematicX1 You know actually man, it isn't really a specific thing or even an area. One thing I have appreciated here on the production forum over the years is the fact that no matter what state the track was, producers here broke it down, for anyone hence the real purpose of this thread For me, it has always been a kind of reverse psychology. When a true WIP walks in here I have always tried to lend an "ear" and remained perfectly biased. When I can, I try to break down every aspect of the problem issue in order to come to a pleasing result from the artist. Fact is, I learn from others track mistakes and oddly enough when I run into areas like that on my tracks, I know what not to do. So, my whole point is this... You guys put up these freakin polished mastered bangers that are already complete. And although I really dig and admire your guy's work, I don't learn from it. I have heard WIPs from you guys that sounded really messed up (as they all are). But when I see what you say about what YOU think your track state is in and then I see someone posting something completely different... Well,they are not wrong, it is just a different set of perspective. And this is how I learn,personally. Gah, this is probably not making any sense and I do apologize D. It isn't meant as a rail only a very light hearted poke lol

I hear you man, tomorrow I will try to walk you through my basic process of getting a new track started.

Cheers,

Darek

Okay, why not.

For me it went like this. I came across this tune (below) on Spotify (discover weekly). I loved the chord progression and set a goal to recreate it and then see what happens.


Projects, for me, always start with a clean slate. No preset config. I imported the tune mentioned above into Ableton, took aan arbitrary piano and started recreating the chords.
When I had the first 4-5 chords (can't quite remember) I put a kick under it to see what placement/timing would do. When I had a progression I liked I started to build a beat.

Usually for me that goes something like this in order:
Kick
Offbeat closed hat
Low perc to get groove going
Mid perc
high perc (put in light reverbed drum track in this project)

Looking at the image below I built up the above list gradually wile sifting through loads of samples. You can see I made a split based on character. Some drum elements I wanted to have light reverb, others heavy.



Then I replaced the midi/piano with a sylenth one factory preset. Added Trillian for bass, with volume automation to mimic side-chaining.



Then I wanted to work on an intro, got my fav synth out (Synth1, free VST) which created the strings that now push the track forward. I modified the chords a bit to make it feel better. As a result they don't really fit with the previous clip anymore. Unintented bonus is I have the potential to create 2 tracks with the same project now .



Now I needed to make it more exciting. I wanted to add some shimmer on top of the chords. Chicane does that all to well so I tried to recreate it. It's basically a simple arp with some supersaw-ish sound from Sylenth1 with a lot of reverb.

Dry


wet


Then I started adding some sfx to make the intro more exciting, because it was just lengthy. Added some shakers in a new drum rack with heavy reverb. Somewhere in between I also played with the chord progression I originally intended. At the end of the preview you can hear a piano version and some electric piano I still intend to use for the second take on this track.

Current state of the track.


If you merge the picture below with the previous picture you can see the full arrangement currently built:


Most synths are highpassed at various frequencies and some drum sounds also individually altered through the drum rack. The drum bus is compressed altogether at the group level with 'The Glue' compressor and on master there is a basic limiter running which gets hit very slightly.

Now, for me, I'm left figuring out how to proceed. No clue.

Questions?

OMG This!! I'm going to let this all settle on my brain and I will get back. I know I have questions but can wait.
Thanks guys....THIS!!!!

I get where you're coming from. I used to use trackers back in the day (mid 90's). The song files would contain the arrangement and the samples so you could see everything done to make it sound the way it did. Just copying can learn you so much.

This is not quite the same as sharing a project file, but I'm hoping with the seperate parts of audio, somewhat descriptive text and screenshots go a long way.





Spent some time in the studio of (and with) my neighbor last night. We made slight alterations on a track we finished a year ago (called Falling) and sort of finished our second collab as well (called Mai Thai). Some mix & arrangement alterations still needed but would love to have some input if you have any. Especially Mai Thai has some dodgy stuff going on, I think at some point the kick becomes way too loud.

🦉 If you're going to do a mini-tut or breakdown of your track it should be in a new thread. Otherwise it's just going to get lost over time amongst the other posts in this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Mel David 🦉 If you're going to do a mini-tut or breakdown of your track it should be in a new thread. Otherwise it's just going to get lost over time amongst the other posts in this thread.

This is true, however....how many of us really post on here? 6?
::edit:: As well, yea this is kind of a Track breakdown but at the same time even though Story is breaking it down on some of the process at the end he is treating it as a WIP and asking for suggestions because the song is unfinished

quote:

Originally posted by SystematicX1 This is true, however....how many of us really post on here? 6? ::edit:: As well, yea this is kind of a Track breakdown but at the same time even though Story is breaking it down on some of the process at the end he is treating it as a WIP and asking for suggestions because the song is unfinished

So Phil,

Before I will walk you through my process of creating new track I would like you to look at few different programs/packages which I use:

1) Xfer-Cthulhu (https://xferrecords.com/products/cthulhu)
2) F9-audio (https://www.f9-audio.com/products/f...t=5838947221533)
3) Blackoctopus-sound (Black Octopus Sound - Mega Sample Collectio)

Also
4) U-he-HIVE (https://u-he.com/products/hive/)

This is my base for laying out new concept - first I create new midi track with Cthulhu and send this generated midi to second track with hive on it (you can use any synth software you want in the place of hive) - this will let me go relatively quickly through some different chords progression to generate my melodic idea (in Cthulhu you can add external presets to add more genre specific chords presets). With addition of a kick and snare you can start to generate some basic core of your future track.

Next post will be about drums and bass creation and please let me know if you would like to see any images or sound snippets for clarity.

Darek

Thanks guys, appreciate the responses. If I may for a moment interject.
I am juggling both of yours and Story's input as well as hitting a track myself atm. The wave hasn't come for awhile so, trying to ride it as much as I can.
I do want to respond in the immediate form however about track layouts.
It isn't that I am not interested in any of that as a matter of fact I find it interesting that I incorporate a hybrid form of what you guys do.

quote:

Projects, for me, always start with a clean slate. No preset config. I imported the tune mentioned above into Ableton, took aan arbitrary piano and started recreating the chords. When I had the first 4-5 chords (can't quite remember) I put a kick under it to see what placement/timing would do. When I had a progression I liked I started to build a beat. Usually for me that goes something like this in order: Kick Offbeat closed hat Low perc to get groove going Mid perc high perc (put in light reverbed drum track in this project)

This is 90% on how I start a track. The difference for me is that I tend to feel for the flow of what I have. If it seems to be leaning towards a percussive side then I tend to build on that. If I happen to have a solid groove in a short period I tend to lean towards adding bass,sub next. On and On..

quote:

1) Xfer-Cthulhu (https://xferrecords.com/products/cthulhu) 2) F9-audio (https://www.f9-audio.com/products/f...t=5838947221533) 3) Blackoctopus-sound (Black Octopus Sound - Mega Sample Collectio) Also 4) U-he-HIVE (https://u-he.com/products/hive/) This is my base for laying out new concept - first I create new midi track with Cthulhu and send this generated midi to second track

Hive is one of my go to's. I have almost their complete line. Almost
Ahhh Cthulhu. I really really need to get this as this is what my style craves in arps. ALL of Dudas stuff is straight up legit. As for your starting with this, I generally do the same if I (again, how my tracks are formed) am feeling that Arp vibe and start off messing around with just ...an arp. It is a different approach than what I listed as Story's way but in context it is all about mood for me.
With that said, IF I start off using an Arp, in this instance you using Cthu, the point of where you start talking about routing to bus is where again...you got me ( I do remember our prior discussion and followed the links but still was stumped at...why)
Now, I know this could get lengthy and I am not sure I am quite prepared for that but with that said...

Most of the questions are based on Dynamics.
I have TONS of issues with Sub gelling in a mix. I use EQ albeit I really have no idea what I am doing say that I can generally gauge by ear and know relatively on a frequency scale what I need to achieve.

Compression for me is not really an issue. Do I understand it? Not even close but at the very least I know how much to and NOT to use.
I low cut filter as much as I can and generally don't get to much frequency battles and If I do I am able to at least recognize it.

I have been messing around with panning and stereo widening on certain elements and just now at a point where I am able to recognize that yet again, things do not need to be an over aggressive amount. Subtly plays.

Again, I still am unable to achieve certain dynamic ranges with my tracks. I use a resource track and try to emulate tones and frequencies but in the end, I just get a muddy tone.

I can say this, a good example will be forth coming from me real soon as I have some tonality issues with a string segment.

Really really really appreciate all of your inputs guys

quote:

Originally posted by SystematicX1 Thanks guys, appreciate the responses. If I may for a moment interject. I am juggling both of yours and Story's input as well as hitting a track myself atm. The wave hasn't come for awhile so, trying to ride it as much as I can. I do want to respond in the immediate form however about track layouts. It isn't that I am not interested in any of that as a matter of fact I find it interesting that I incorporate a hybrid form of what you guys do. This is 90% on how I start a track. The difference for me is that I tend to feel for the flow of what I have. If it seems to be leaning towards a percussive side then I tend to build on that. If I happen to have a solid groove in a short period I tend to lean towards adding bass,sub next. On and On.. Hive is one of my go to's. I have almost their complete line. Almost Ahhh Cthulhu. I really really need to get this as this is what my style craves in arps. ALL of Dudas stuff is straight up legit. As for your starting with this, I generally do the same if I (again, how my tracks are formed) am feeling that Arp vibe and start off messing around with just ...an arp. It is a different approach than what I listed as Story's way but in context it is all about mood for me. With that said, IF I start off using an Arp, in this instance you using Cthu, the point of where you start talking about routing to bus is where again...you got me ( I do remember our prior discussion and followed the links but still was stumped at...why) Now, I know this could get lengthy and I am not sure I am quite prepared for that but with that said... Most of the questions are based on Dynamics. I have TONS of issues with Sub gelling in a mix. I use EQ albeit I really have no idea what I am doing say that I can generally gauge by ear and know relatively on a frequency scale what I need to achieve. Compression for me is not really an issue. Do I understand it? Not even close but at the very least I know how much to and NOT to use. I low cut filter as much as I can and generally don't get to much frequency battles and If I do I am able to at least recognize it. I have been messing around with panning and stereo widening on certain elements and just now at a point where I am able to recognize that yet again, things do not need to be an over aggressive amount. Subtly plays. Again, I still am unable to achieve certain dynamic ranges with my tracks. I use a resource track and try to emulate tones and frequencies but in the end, I just get a muddy tone. I can say this, a good example will be forth coming from me real soon as I have some tonality issues with a string segment. Really really really appreciate all of your inputs guys

I think we will have much more success when you could upload your WIP for us to download so we can work on it individually and then we can share our result later with you to have more constructive conversation about what and how we did certain things. You will need to export each individual track for us and midi if possible (for different sound selection lol). I also strongly suggest to get this F9-audio toolkit for Ableton (https://www.f9-audio.com/products/f...t=5838947221533)

Let me know if this would work for you?

Darek

Ok Story,

I was able to listen and view your track breakdown however the Dry and Wet samples didn't appear for me.
What I am getting from this is a very dominant kick. At the beginning is there something underneath that? It is hard to tell on the kick.
When that Pad/Stab loop hits and then widens though....very nice.
In some ways I am visualizing your kick progression notes but replacing them with a subby slap bass like variation drawing out as many notes as you can on that progression. Thinking Jazz
Piano Sax lead overs? It has a very snappy feel and I think it would deserve something organic and crisp over the top.

The other idea I had came listening around 3:11 of this piece and I started thinking and getting this vibing change. For a moment it took on a real tangerine dream feel in which I could hear an analog lead over that.
Thanks for all your input Story. I learn from you guys in ways you can't imagine.

----------------------------

Now then. I kinda pushed the midnight oil tonight on this because I wanted to get it up in at least a presentable manner.
This track is actually so young I am apprehensive of putting it up because I know the areas that need attention.

1: The lack of any sub (at least on the intro)
2: Bass will change or maybe even get layered with current, undecided
3: Pad #1 (non arp) I am having a love/hate relationship with. It probably would be smarter to go with a non analog string and go with some better sampled ones.
4: Piano. This is the stock Ableton Grand sample and personally..I am not impressed.
5: I am getting some irritating cymbal/percussion elements that are a little to high in the mix for my taste. The reversed closed to open High hat before the clap (on the down beat) is questionable.

I am feeling better on this bounce with the composition and about 75% comfortable with the arrangement tones.
I am feeling this is a decent bed I can go with but feel it needs a nice lead over the top somehow.
At around 2:23 is probably the best representation I am trying to achieve.

quote:

Originally posted by SystematicX1 Ok Story, I was able to listen and view your track breakdown however the Dry and Wet samples didn't appear for me. What I am getting from this is a very dominant kick. At the beginning is there something underneath that? It is hard to tell on the kick. When that Pad/Stab loop hits and then widens though....very nice. In some ways I am visualizing your kick progression notes but replacing them with a subby slap bass like variation drawing out as many notes as you can on that progression. Thinking Jazz Piano Sax lead overs? It has a very snappy feel and I think it would deserve something organic and crisp over the top. The other idea I had came listening around 3:11 of this piece and I started thinking and getting this vibing change. For a moment it took on a real tangerine dream feel in which I could hear an analog lead over that. Thanks for all your input Story. I learn from you guys in ways you can't imagine. ---------------------------- Now then. I kinda pushed the midnight oil tonight on this because I wanted to get it up in at least a presentable manner. This track is actually so young I am apprehensive of putting it up because I know the areas that need attention. 1: The lack of any sub (at least on the intro) 2: Bass will change or maybe even get layered with current, undecided 3: Pad #1 (non arp) I am having a love/hate relationship with. It probably would be smarter to go with a non analog string and go with some better sampled ones. 4: Piano. This is the stock Ableton Grand sample and personally..I am not impressed. 5: I am getting some irritating cymbal/percussion elements that are a little to high in the mix for my taste. The reversed closed to open High hat before the clap (on the down beat) is questionable. I am feeling better on this bounce with the composition and about 75% comfortable with the arrangement tones. I am feeling this is a decent bed I can go with but feel it needs a nice lead over the top somehow. At around 2:23 is probably the best representation I am trying to achieve. Systemtest � Test

Phil,

Can you give me a favorite and render this WIP one more time (maybe like two min in the middle of the track) without piano track (just turn off), I would like to hear how everything seats in it and how kick, drums and bass drives this grove.

Cheers,

Darek

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