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I have no need or desire for symbols or words to be written on my skin. I do my best not to judge others. I remember back in the day when she had just "Soul"

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Originally posted by igottaknow I do my best not to judge others.

This is a bullshit term, manufactured by the PC crowd that's ruining our world.

Everybody judges, it's just that the smart ones keep it to themselves like they should.

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Originally posted by Fledz This is a bullshit term, manufactured by the PC crowd that's ruining our world. Everybody judges, it's just that the smart ones keep it to themselves like they should.

very true. will be writing a thesis pretty much about this next year
well, mostly that people's opinions about others are bullshit, but pointing out that obviously everyone has their own biases and there's nothing wrong with that, but you have to at least realise you have them, instead of just pretending like you're some saint who is completely objective etc

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Originally posted by jennypie It means life, live, to be alive, to be born, to give birth, birthday. So life. I wanted live love laugh, but it wouldn't fit the way I wanted it too without the characters being distorted.

I recently read an old thread in which you said that, and I thought you had another character in your neck, because that character alone doesn't really mean all those things, but it is used in the spelling of all the words you mentioned (birthday is 誕生, for example). 命 is more likely to occur on its own when they mean "life".

All by itself, 生 means "raw" (生の牛肉 = "Raw beef"), "live" (as in happening right now, e.g. 生の音楽 = "Live Music"), "not elaborated" (この刃は生だ = This blade is blunt / 読者の生の声を聞きたい = I want to hear readers' candid opinions) in Japanese. In Chinese, much like in Japanese, this character alone does not seem to be able to convey all the meanings you want. "Life", for example, is 生命, and it would be more usual to see the last character being used independently. In summary, that's like having "bio" tattoed in your back - it is part of many words related to life, such as "biology" and "biodiversity", but it isn't really the proper word. Who recommended you that character?

Anyway. what really matters is that...

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie

... they look awesome on you

Lira, how do ppl in Japan/China feel about Westerners tattooing oriental characters on our selves? Does the whole mystery exotic appeal work in reverse? Like do they tattoo letters or words from the English language to be cool?

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Originally posted by igottaknow Lira, how do ppl in Japan/China feel about Westerners tattooing oriental characters on our selves? Does the whole mystery exotic appeal work in reverse? Like do they tattoo letters or words from the English language to be cool?

I know for a fact the Japanese abhor it. They think tattooing is restricted to criminals, and when it comes to words, they have a concept called "Kotodama" according to which words have mystical powers. Language is serious business to them.

I know too little about Chinese culture to say anything on their behalf.

However, foreigners in general (and I'm now including Brazilians here) think English is cool so, yeah, it does work in reverse depending on the context. The amount of nonsensical English words you find in the street both in São Paulo and Tokyo is comical.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Neat flowers. Very vaginal.

Jenny, did you ever have a "sunburn" kinda feeling with any of your tattoos? the one i had done, the guy said it was going to feel like it afterwards, and sure enough for a good 2 days it felt like a had a really bad sunburn...isolated in one small area, it was weir.d....can't imagine a full back like yours.

You know, I really feel like tattooing the Myth of Babel on my back, starting in Hebrew and then switching the languages gradually from Hebrew and Greek to all Romance languages from Latin (the ancestor language) to Brazilian Portuguese.

Hmmm...

Do it!

Here's some more pics of Zeus - now at 4 months old and 14 kg







The red things on the plants are to defend against the little guy digging in them. It works...but now he's big enough to jump up and grab the leaves like a damn giraffe

Let's see him shooting lightning bolts.

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Originally posted by jennypie I got some dogwoods on me back. Not finished yet.

For some reason when I see chicks with massive tattoos like that I think they have a subconscious idea they will die young.

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Originally posted by pmoisse Here's some more pics of Zeus - now at 4 months old and 14 kg

awww, what a stud

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Originally posted by Lira I recently read an old thread in which you said that, and I thought you had another character in your neck, because that character alone doesn't really mean all those things, but it is used in the spelling of all the words you mentioned (birthday is 誕生, for example). 命 is more likely to occur on its own when they mean "life". All by itself, 生 means "raw" (生の牛肉 = "Raw beef"), "live" (as in happening right now, e.g. 生の音楽 = "Live Music"), "not elaborated" (この刃は生だ = This blade is blunt / 読者の生の声を聞きたい = I want to hear readers' candid opinions) in Japanese. In Chinese, much like in Japanese, this character alone does not seem to be able to convey all the meanings you want. "Life", for example, is 生命, and it would be more usual to see the last character being used independently. In summary, that's like having "bio" tattoed in your back - it is part of many words related to life, such as "biology" and "biodiversity", but it isn't really the proper word. Who recommended you that character? Anyway. what really matters is that... ... they look awesome on you

Well I didn't make that up. A Chinese girl in the nursing program told me that. In fact I've heard similar explanations from several Chinese people.
edit: someone once told me "ruler" as well. Or rule or something..like as in measurement. But that was a guy who just went over there to teach or some shit. Lol.

But yeah thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by tubularbills Jenny, did you ever have a "sunburn" kinda feeling with any of your tattoos? the one i had done, the guy said it was going to feel like it afterwards, and sure enough for a good 2 days it felt like a had a really bad sunburn...isolated in one small area, it was weir.d....can't imagine a full back like yours.

Yep that's exactly how it feels.

生does mean live, to be alive, to be born, to give birth as Jenny said. But Lira is not wrong about that it also means raw, or live as in live music etc and I agree that the right way to translate "Life" would be 生命.

I'm pretty sure that 生 can be used as an independant word though, for example the words 生或死 are often used, meaning "alive or dead".

ps. this reminds me of when I was standing at a bar in Helsinki and I saw a Finnish girl having a tattoo with Chinese characters that said "tourist". I didn't know if she knew that she was fucked. So I said casually "oh hey, those are Chinese characters you have tattoed on your wrist.. what does it mean?".
She: you can't read it?
Me: hmm nah, my Chinese isn't very good.
She: well, if you don't know, then I'm not gonna tell you!

Guess she DID know! lol

Ya anyone who doesnt do some basic research on what they want for a chinese character deserves to get fuucked.

Oh, I suppose it's more of a Chinese reading then. By the way, never mind my following posts about this topic, Jenny, I'm now just trying to understand the Chinese language a little better

And are there any other tattoos in your body? Is that a scorpion on your hip?

quote:

Originally posted by Unique2701 生does mean live, to be alive, to be born, to give birth as Jenny said.

I mean, don't you need some more characters to convey all these meanings? For example, in order to say "birth" or "to give birth" don't you need to say 出生? Can I just say 我出生在巴西 instead of 我生在巴西 to say "I was born in Brazil"? Or just 我的生 instead of 我的生活?

For example, here in Brazil people often get 平 tattooed in their body because they're told it means "Peace". But, as far as my smart-arse laowai knowledge is concerned, unless 和 is thrown somewhere in the mix, 平 just means plain/flat. No?

quote:

Originally posted by Unique2701 I'm pretty sure that 生 can be used as an independant word though, for example the words 生或死 are often used, meaning "alive or dead".

Well, that's a fixed expression. For example, "nowt" is not used outside Northern England except in the expression "There's nowt so queer as folk", which is probably used beyond its borders more often than the word "nowt" independently. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" is another instance of an archaic use retained by tradition.

Isn't it the same case, or can I say 我生 to mean "I live"?

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Originally posted by igottaknow Do it!

I may.

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Originally posted by Lira And are there any other tattoos in your body? Is that a scorpion on your hip?

Yeah it's a scorpion. That was my first one. Heh.

Pfffft. It's pretty hard to explain. In some cases, most Chinese people will find it hard to explain what only one character means, because we've only been taught what a combination of two characters mean.

Often it doesn't even make sense to think about what each individual character means. For example, the most correct way to say "happy" in Chinese, is 快樂. But 樂 covers that meaning more than 快 and is often being used indepently (in names, for tattoos). Because what does 快 mean independently? Just fast.

There's not one character or a combination of characters that cover every way of the word "life" we use in English. 生命 is life like you said. But in some situations, we only use 生, and in others, we only use 命.

For example, if you'd say "my whole life..", in Chinese it's "我一生人..".
"人生" is also used for "life", though it literally means "a human's life"
Or "He has a very fortunate life" - "他真的好命".

quote:

Originally posted by Lira I mean, don't you need some more characters to convey all these meanings? For example, in order to say "birth" or "to give birth" don't you need to say 出生? Can I just say 我出生在巴西 instead of 我生在巴西 to say "I was born in Brazil"? Or just 我的生 instead of 我的生活?

"I was born in Brazil" would be 我是在巴西出生.
"When my mom gave birth to me.." - 我媽生我的时候

There is no better way to translate "alive" than 生 and it means "alive" more than any other meaning. Actually, raw as in 生牛肉 (raw beef) is derived from the meaning of "alive". The idea behind it is that when meat is raw, it's not dead yet - so it's "alive" so to say.

quote:

For example, here in Brazil people often get 平 tattooed in their body because they're told it means "Peace". But, as far as my smart-arse laowai knowledge is concerned, unless 和 is thrown somewhere in the mix, 平 just means plain/flat. No?

平 also means balance, so it's not that far fetched. Most people from the West just want to use one Chinese character in general, because they don't know much better and think that one word = one character. But I agree with you that the most correct way to translate "peace" would be 和平

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Originally posted by Unique2701 Pfffft. It's pretty hard to explain. In some cases, most Chinese people will find it hard to explain what only one character means, because we've only been taught what a combination of two characters mean.

It's all right - it's the same in Japanese. That's why I'm often confused when people around here make the correspondence "Ideogram" = "Word" like you mentioned later... and, except for some rare words that are indeed written with just one character, such as 水, 冬, and 力, I often wind up giving people a long speech about Japanese grammar, which I think listeners either find too complicated or just too long to be correct.

quote:

Originally posted by Unique2701 Often it doesn't even make sense to think about what each individual character means. For example, the most correct way to say "happy" in Chinese, is 快樂. But 樂 covers that meaning more than 快 and is often being used indepently (in names, for tattoos). Because what does 快 mean independently? Just fast.

Yeah, that's the sort of thing I had in mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Unique2701 There's not one character or a combination of characters that cover every way of the word "life" we use in English. 生命 is life like you said. But in some situations, we only use 生, and in others, we only use 命. For example, if you'd say "my whole life..", in Chinese it's "我一生人..". "人生" is also used for "life", though it literally means "a human's life" Or "He has a very fortunate life" - "他真的好命". "I was born in Brazil" would be 我是在巴西出生. "When my mom gave birth to me.." - 我媽生我的时候

Interesting

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Originally posted by Unique2701 There is no better way to translate "alive" than 生 and it means "alive" more than any other meaning. Actually, raw as in 生牛肉 (raw beef) is derived from the meaning of "alive". The idea behind it is that when meat is raw, it's not dead yet - so it's "alive" so to say.

Heh, now that's something I didn't expect, but that makes perfect sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Unique2701 平 also means balance, so it's not that far fetched. Most people from the West just want to use one Chinese character in general, because they don't know much better and think that one word = one character. But I agree with you that the most correct way to translate "peace" would be 和平

I think that's also because one character is cheaper than two

By the way, I had no idea you spoke Chinese. Were you born there or are you Dutch Chinese?

quote:

Originally posted by Lira It's all right - it's the same in Japanese. That's why I'm often confused when people around here make the correspondence "Ideogram" = "Word" like you mentioned later... and, except for some rare words that are indeed written with just one character, such as 水, 冬, and 力, I often wind up giving people a long speech about Japanese grammar, which I think listeners either find too complicated or just too long to be correct. Yeah, that's the sort of thing I had in mind. Interesting Heh, now that's something I didn't expect, but that makes perfect sense. I think that's also because one character is cheaper than two By the way, I had no idea you spoke Chinese. Were you born there or are you Dutch Chinese?

My parents are from Hong Kong but they immigrated to Holland ages ago, so I'm born as a Dutch.

Cantonese was also the first language I've learned. I attended Chinese lessons on Saturday with a bunch of other Chinese kids like me, who were also born in Holland. I was never much interested in that - I didn't have much of a say in it as a kid - so I didn't learn as much as I should've. Once you stop taking lessons and don't keep it up with reading, watching Chinese tv, you forget how to write characters very fast.. I still recognize a quite a bit when I try to read it (though I miss the essential words so kind of pointless), but writing doesn't get me far.

I might go to China to learn Mandarin someday though I've got a real advantage knowing how to speak Cantonese and I like the idea of living abroad for a while.

How do you learn Japanese, lessons or self taught?

quote:

Originally posted by Unique2701 My parents are from Hong Kong but they immigrated to Holland ages ago, so I'm born as a Dutch. Cantonese was also the first language I've learned. I attended Chinese lessons on Saturday with a bunch of other Chinese kids like me, who were also born in Holland. I was never much interested in that - I didn't have much of a say in it as a kid - so I didn't learn as much as I should've. Once you stop taking lessons and don't keep it up with reading, watching Chinese tv, you forget how to write characters very fast.. I still recognize a quite a bit when I try to read it (though I miss the essential words so kind of pointless), but writing doesn't get me far. I might go to China to learn Mandarin someday though I've got a real advantage knowing how to speak Cantonese and I like the idea of living abroad for a while.

You speak Cantonese? That's awesome! I find the language fascinating, though I've never really had much time to study it... and I'd have no one to talk with anyway

quote:

Originally posted by Unique2701 How do you learn Japanese, lessons or self taught?

A little bit of column "a", a little bit of column "b". I studied Japanese at the University of Brasilia where I graduated and now teach. However I had to study on my own quite a few times, and I was somewhat lost inside the Japanese colony around here, so I had many opportunities to use the language.

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Originally posted by Lira You speak Cantonese? That's awesome! I find the language fascinating, though I've never really had much time to study it... and I'd have no one to talk with anyway

Oh, I never heard anyone saying that they find Cantonese fascinating..! How come?

I find it interesting that (as you may know) we choose different words when we speak than when we write for some words. For example, 說 (to say) is the word we use to write with, but we wouldn't use this through oral communication. We would use 廣 (not entirely sure this is how you write it) which means exactly the same but that you pronounce in a whole different way.

quote:

A little bit of column "a", a little bit of column "b". I studied Japanese at the University of Brasilia where I graduated and now teach. However I had to study on my own quite a few times, and I was somewhat lost inside the Japanese colony around here, so I had many opportunities to use the language.

Wow, respect! It's not an easy language to learn, is it? Such long pronouncations.. I'd love to be able to speak Japanese but I'm too lazy to learn a whole new language. I like a lot of books from Japanese writers, would love to read some of it in Japanese to see how different it is from their English translation and not all of it is translated.

Have u ever studied in Japan? Btw, a Japanese colony in Brasil? LOL
Are there lots of Chinese ppl too?

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