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Trance Nubbage

Before you start the flaming, hear me out. I've noticed a trend among "trancers" , I see it in public, on this forum, and on many other trance-related ones, particularly the "popular" ones. Anyway, when one looks at the threads, and peoples responses to the actual genre it's kindof immature/nerdy/sad ....I mean people make Vandit t shirts, or trance.nu,Tiesto whatever it maybe...it's as if anyone gives a shit. They toss the word "prog" around, like it's no ones business...what's happening I just don't get it..it's as if the fucking nubs have taken over and are here to take over planet earth with their nerd/no idea about past artists mentalities. They live and breathe these internet mainstream trance radio shows and spit out garbage tracks in these threads posing as knowledgable sources, and claim to have good taste, becaue after all anything without a catchy break/ up-down-up-down pattern is prog!. Take proton radio for example, the music isnt nerd hacked/promoted, and has an underground edge, that whole prog house community is very music-oriented, it's not about Fairy's or Tijs', the focus is more on the music, the dj is the median, but isnt made into some pussy fuckin pop-icon like they did with Corsten and van Buuren and many others. Take a look now at Markus Schulz...his past sets were really good,he was really credible in his playlists and sets, dropping killer tunes like a year ago, now he just hammers whatever armin van boring stuck up his ass the week before,...how many times can you listen to TV Dinner, i dunno...but alot from what I can tell.Schulz the one person that I didn't think would cater to the noob generation of the EDM scene has even soldout his sound, he used to play whatever he wanted/thought fit the set, and now just caters to the ASOT ****s, that come to get a quickie before the next ASOT show. The shows/sets now remind me of a EDM version of MTV's TRL.....you can vote for the ASOT tunes on that show...which a clear indication. So the question finally is, has the nub generation rubbed off that badly on trance in general...

Proton radio is almost as bad as ASOT (In that I can't decide which is more boring).

I don't agree with you on the Markus part, it's more that Armin is taking over his style to be honest. Schulz is still bringing us gems like Fanatic, Intervention and Preen.

Re: Trance Nubbage

quote:

Originally posted by Remiks So the question finally is, has the nub generation rubbed off that badly on trance in general...

No, you've just grown more elite.

I also highly DISAGREE with you on Markus Schulz. Very recently they had a GDJB vs ASOT show where Armin and Markus' sets from Club Ice in Las Vegas were played. Markus and Armin played very different sets. I love Armin van Buuren but Markus Schulz's set (pt1 & pt2) was so amazing and beautiful, it far surpassed Armin's set IMO.

They play different things but sometimes their music tastes cross, and is that so terrible? It's not like one is copying the other.

I really don't know what your problem is. If it's with the popularity of the radio shows then big fuckin' deal. You don't hear Armin or other big shows playing DJ Sammy, Lasgo and other commercial songs they are playing what they enjoy to play not what the crowd and fans want to hear. If you don't like their style then don't listen to that DJ. Markus hasn't changed his style and neither has Armin. Compare old sets to new sets...still the same vibe.

I don't know what Markus Schulz you have been listening to but it's obviously not the same one as me...

basically its like this,people just go with what everyone else is listening to.they have no idea where all this music came from and what dj's blazed the trail.they got no respect for the old shit and they just stick with what's "popular".alot of the music coming out now all sounds the same.these kids who are just now listening to EDM really fucked up the whole scene for everyone who's been down with his shit for years.they got no sense of history.just be yourself kids.don't get into something because everyone else is doing it.do your own thing.

quote:

Originally posted by fac3d they got no respect for the old shit and they just stick with what's "popular"

Oooooor alternatively they *MIGHT* be listening to it because they like it, god forbid their tastes should be different to yours.

yeah that could b true,but seriously,all im sayin is learn the roots

I dunno.. I don't think it's really that necessary. I only started getting into trance around 1998 so most here would probably call me a newbie... but it's still longer than some, and if someone was getting into the scene about now and got into ASOT and the likes, it's not like I'd deem their musical judgement inferior because they hadn't listened to any trance from previous years. If they like it then so be it...

i totally hear what your sayin.i just think some of these new cats should hear everything that electronic music has 2 offer and not limit themselves.thats all.

Agreed to disagree

Although if they were taking up a professional reviewing role or something, then I could see where you're coming from.

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra Oooooor alternatively they *MIGHT* be listening to it because they like it, god forbid their tastes should be different to yours.

But they like pop. What makes it worse is that they can't even admit it.

quote:

Originally posted by Radagast But they like pop. What makes it worse is that they can't even admit it.

People have different definitions of the term 'pop', evidently.

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra People have different definitions of the term 'pop', evidently.

Pop = Popular music

quote:

Originally posted by Radagast Pop = Popular music

Popular in comparison to what? How many listeners does it take before a certain type of music can officially be classed as 'popular'?

Trance is largely unpopular in relation to most modern music.

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra Popular in comparison to what? How many listeners does it take before a certain type of music can officially be classed as 'popular'? Trance is largely unpopular in relation to most modern music; how many tunes played on ASOT have ended up in the singles charts over the past year? I can name about three.

Popular in comparison to itself. This is painfully obvious to people who know what the fuck they're talking about.

"It gotten too commercial...like everything that becomes big...nothing new is getting big since the people are focused on just one sound...nobody is pushing or supporting new sounds. To me Robert Miles "Children" was the beginning of the end of trance as it was known as something good and inspiring. What they call "Progressive" now - to me sounds pretty much like some minimal Goa Trance...I like to think of more Techno orientated "Trance" which is lately developing and once again is not something completely new, but a good mix of styles that I like...far away from the Pop-Trance!" --Oliver Lieb on Epic/Anthem Trance

"No not really, it's gone now. The label trance is going to be classed as a form of popmusic of the last century." --Mark Reeder

"When I think of "trance", I think of stuff that sounds like traxxx, but a lot of artists now days hate the word trance. Why? Because of the current trend and hype in Germany of this sound? It is not the same trance sound today which we were making in the early 90's anyway. Trance has become kommercial pop musik." --Mark Reeder

"It's not something I listen to myself, but it's not like I'm really bothered by it because, if anything, it helps introduce the things that I'm doing to people who probably wouldn't notice them otherwise. Trance has that easily digestible format that people from the suburbs or whatever can understand, and I think that maybe after listening to trance and other more commercial forms of music, they might start to appreciate other forms of electronic music like house and techno. It's basically a good thing. Trance is a gateway music (laughs)." --Cajmere, aka Green Velvet

quote:

Before you start the flaming, hear me out. I've noticed a trend among "trancers" , I see it in public, on this forum, and on many other trance-related ones, particularly the "popular" ones. Anyway, when one looks at the threads, and peoples responses to the actual genre it's kindof immature/nerdy/sad ....I mean people make Vandit t shirts, or trance.nu,Tiesto whatever it maybe...it's as if anyone gives a shit. They toss the word "prog" around, like it's no ones business...what's happening I just don't get it..it's as if the fucking nubs have taken over and are here to take over planet earth with their nerd/no idea about past artists mentalities. They live and breathe these internet mainstream trance radio shows and spit out garbage tracks in these threads posing as knowledgable sources, and claim to have good taste, becaue after all anything without a catchy break/ up-down-up-down pattern is prog!. Take proton radio for example, the music isnt nerd hacked/promoted, and has an underground edge, that whole prog house community is very music-oriented, it's not about Fairy's or Tijs', the focus is more on the music, the dj is the median, but isnt made into some pussy fuckin pop-icon like they did with Corsten and van Buuren and many others. Take a look now at Markus Schulz...his past sets were really good,he was really credible in his playlists and sets, dropping killer tunes like a year ago, now he just hammers whatever armin van boring stuck up his ass the week before,...how many times can you listen to TV Dinner, i dunno...but alot from what I can tell.Schulz the one person that I didn't think would cater to the noob generation of the EDM scene has even soldout his sound, he used to play whatever he wanted/thought fit the set, and now just caters to the ASOT ****s, that come to get a quickie before the next ASOT show. The shows/sets now remind me of a EDM version of MTV's TRL.....you can vote for the ASOT tunes on that show...which a clear indication. So the question finally is, has the nub generation rubbed off that badly on trance in general...

i hear they invented paragraphs.

quote:

Originally posted by Radagast "It's not something I listen to myself, but it's not like I'm really bothered by it because, if anything, it helps introduce the things that I'm doing to people who probably wouldn't notice them otherwise. Trance has that easily digestible format that people from the suburbs or whatever can understand, and I think that maybe after listening to trance and other more commercial forms of music, they might start to appreciate other forms of electronic music like house and techno. It's basically a good thing. Trance is a gateway music (laughs)." --Cajmere, aka Green Velvet

this is a killer quote. its all true as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Radagast Popular in comparison to itself.

Just because it attracts more listeners than pre-98 trance, that doesn't make it pop music.

I'm sure there are forms of EDM even less popular than early trance... by your logic that would make early trance pop music too!

I think the point that is being made here is that, the new listeners have no clue as to the old artists/gems that really made the scene possible, and now PRAY/WORSHIP 03/04 artists who are mediocre at best, and give them more credit than actual classics...which really puts a perspective on the scene.... I mean if fuckin Ridgewalkers-El which is an awful tune, and its not just my opinion, its cheesy garbage gets all this attention when its not even good, or more of it than past stuff like an Oliver LIeb...then thats a shame.

So basically what you're saying is that now that you've taken an interest in progressive house that trance is 'n00b.'

Re: Trance Nubbage

quote:

Originally posted by Remiks Before you start the flaming, hear me out. I've noticed a trend among "trancers" , I see it in public, on this forum, and on many other trance-related ones, particularly the "popular" ones. Anyway, when one looks at the threads, and peoples responses to the actual genre it's kindof immature/nerdy/sad ....I mean people make Vandit t shirts, or trance.nu,Tiesto whatever it maybe...it's as if anyone gives a shit. They toss the word "prog" around, like it's no ones business...what's happening I just don't get it..it's as if the fucking nubs have taken over and are here to take over planet earth with their nerd/no idea about past artists mentalities. They live and breathe these internet mainstream trance radio shows and spit out garbage tracks in these threads posing as knowledgable sources, and claim to have good taste, becaue after all anything without a catchy break/ up-down-up-down pattern is prog!. Take proton radio for example, the music isnt nerd hacked/promoted, and has an underground edge, that whole prog house community is very music-oriented, it's not about Fairy's or Tijs', the focus is more on the music, the dj is the median, but isnt made into some pussy fuckin pop-icon like they did with Corsten and van Buuren and many others. Take a look now at Markus Schulz...his past sets were really good,he was really credible in his playlists and sets, dropping killer tunes like a year ago, now he just hammers whatever armin van boring stuck up his ass the week before,...how many times can you listen to TV Dinner, i dunno...but alot from what I can tell.Schulz the one person that I didn't think would cater to the noob generation of the EDM scene has even soldout his sound, he used to play whatever he wanted/thought fit the set, and now just caters to the ASOT ****s, that come to get a quickie before the next ASOT show. The shows/sets now remind me of a EDM version of MTV's TRL.....you can vote for the ASOT tunes on that show...which a clear indication. So the question finally is, has the nub generation rubbed off that badly on trance in general...

ditto. there are such things as paragraphs to skip through some senseless material inbetween. other than that, it sounds like you are bored with trance. need house?

EDM has always been an avant-garde style of musical expression. As such, it will continually be subject to change and development and progression - you can't just live in the past the entire time.

Do you have to be an expert on the subject just to critique it? Music is about feeling, and one does not have to be a veteran to have an opinion on things. The genre elitists and people who stress 'how much trance sucks these days because it's not like it used to be' are the ones truly killing the feel of the music - it's like you're all obsessed with classification and numbers and comparison, not actually focusing on the music, itself - this, I believe, is the true source of ignorance here. Not the 'n00bs', not the popularity; the fact that dinosaurs who think they're so elite because they've been listening to trance since the early 90s and can effectively judge the future of a genre with little contribution to its progression... that is what's killing EDM as we know it.

Accept a sound for what it is, progression is inevitable, and if this 'history of trance' is so well-documented somewhere, safe from the eyes of the populace, then why don't you just listen to that for the rest of your days and leave all the new music alone? I'm not one who's necessarily opposed to 'learning the roots' but you just can't live in the past all the time - it's just killing the face of trance for what it is: ever-evolving feeling.

Whether you want to admit it or not, trance *is* changing - people are coming up with new sounds everyday and the only thing that keeps you in your infinite loop of stale music is the fact that you keep pressing 'play' to the same song over and over. I encourage those people who think that they're such expert veterans in Trance to actually open their eyes to a world of music out there - you're limiting yourself to a sound, which is the opposite of what trance should be about.

quote:

Originally posted by isoterra Just because it attracts more listeners than pre-98 trance, that doesn't make it pop music.

What makes it pop music is that it has many of the same thinks pop music has. Ear candy hooks, catchy melodies/lyrics, long breakdowns/insta-climaxes, etc...

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On Do you have to be an expert on the subject just to critique it?

No...that doesn't mean you're critiques are correct or informed though.

quote:

The genre elitists and people who stress 'how much trance sucks these days because it's not like it used to be' are the ones truly killing the feel of the music

Funny, those people left the scene years ago and you're the only ones left. Who is killing the feel of the music? You and those like you who exploit(ed) gimmick pop trance.

quote:

it's like you're all obsessed with classification and numbers and comparison, not actually focusing on the music, itself

Oh, I focus on trance more than you do.

quote:

this, I believe, is the true source of ignorance here. Not the 'n00bs', not the popularity; the fact that dinosaurs who think they're so elite because they've been listening to trance since the early 90s and can effectively judge the future of a genre with little contribution to its progression... that is what's killing EDM as we know it.

How are people who have nothing to do with the scene and who simply speak there minds killing trance? They aren't. The stupid leeches who feed off of pop are (did).

quote:

Accept a sound for what it is, progression is inevitable,

Oh I accept that it's turned into pop. I just have a mind to see that this is not a good thing. If you have no frame of reference, please don't speak about how the sound of trance has changed.

quote:

but you just can't live in the past all the time - it's just killing the face of trance for what it is: ever-evolving feeling.

Trance hasn't evolved since the late 90's.

quote:

Whether you want to admit it or not, trance *is* changing - people are coming up with new sounds everyday

Minor key changes in a melody placed on a breakdown-buildup template of an epic trance track is not change.

quote:

and the only thing that keeps you in your infinite loop of stale music is the fact that you keep pressing 'play' to the same song over and over.

I've heard thousands of Epic/Anthem trance tracks.

quote:

I encourage those people who think that they're such expert veterans in Trance to actually open their eyes to a world of music out there - you're limiting yourself to a sound, which is the opposite of what trance should be about.

I'm neither an expert nor a veteran, but my eyes are more open to music than most. In fact there are only three or four subgenres of trance I can't listen too. As for the rest of EDM, anything but "noise" is pretty much fair game.

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