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-- TranceAddicts Hear it All: Official Resource for Hearing Information and Protection!
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TranceAddicts Hear it All: Official Resource for Hearing Information and Protection!
ok, for years now, many have disputed the existence of Global Warming as a phenomenon. Even many of our country�s most influential leaders really don�t think that it even exists.
So, if we simply ignore it, then it should go away, right?
For years, many have disputed that excessive nightclub volumes cause hearing loss. Even many of our most popular clubs really don�t think that there�s even a problem.
So, if we simply ignore it, then it should go away, right?
A group of TranceAddicts have formed the TRANCEADDICTS HEAR IT ALL alliance to get out the facts about a very real and present danger that affects all of us, true fans of Electronic Dance Music. I wouldn�t waste my time putting my thoughts down into words if I didn�t think this was important, but I�m not about to tell anyone what to do. Please read on and make your own decisions, but hopefully better informed ones.
My goal is to make this thread THE RESOURCE on noise levels and hearing protection. You can help. We can build it together with your ideas and it will be nothing short of amazing! Here�s a rundown of the messages you�ll see next:
1. Background information about music levels in nightclubs (from a study done in 2000 in San Francisco)
2. International resources, including research studies, places to buy earplugs, etc.
3. Local (West Coast TA) resources, including audiologists who can fit Musician�s Earplugs, do hearing tests, and give advice about hearing protection.
If you know of other resources, please post them below in a separate message and I�ll move them up to the top so they�re easy to find. I�d like to add background information about LA city nightclubs as well, so if there�s any ideas on that let me know. I have already emailed Hearnet.com to see if they have any suggestions. Ok, here we go!
1. Here�s some background information (mostly from San Francisco nightclubs, the study was done in 2000, and the full article can be found at http://www.hearnet.com/features/art...e_EdWclub.shtml .
The Bay Area Reporter newspaper tested the decibel levels of a dozen of The City's clubs and found their noise levels so extreme, they not only violate your hearing, they violate the law. The paper's survey found the loudest club in San Francisco, the Sound Factory, was also its most popular. It belted out music as high as 115 decibels. That's louder than sandblasting. According to the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), you should limit your time in the Sound Factory to 4 minutes and 43 seconds. All the clubs surveyed were in violation of the California Occupational Safety and Health Administration's (CAL-OSHA) laws governing noise in the workplace. CAL-OSHA told the Bay Area Reporter it doesn't have the resources to routinely monitor the clubs. Some of the clubs surveyed were so loud, NIOSH says its workers should wear both earplugs and earmuffs. There are virtually no regulations in place to protect the clubs' customers from noise.
The survey found clubgoers are routinely exposed to levels that could result in non-reversible hearing loss, permanent ringing in the ear (tinnitus), or a condition called hyperacusis which paradoxically causes the afflicted to be overly sensitive to noise. The loudest club in the study was not a gay club but the very popular and Sound Factory, which advertises in its flyers: "You'll hear it ... before you see it!" The SOMA club at the foot of the Bay Bridge more than lived up to its billing with music pounding out of its speakers at 115 decibels (dB). The Federal government says levels over 85 dB are dangerous. A vacuum cleaner runs about 70 dB, a jackhammer at 100 dB, and sandblasting about 110 dB. Each increase of 10 decibels represents a doubling of the perceived sound. So the Sound Factory's peak of 115 dB is significantly louder than sandblasting. If a hostile government conspired to destroy the hearing of America's young people, it would be hard pressed to come up with a better formula than the typical dance club.
For Mikel Scott, ringing in the ears after leaving a dance club was not temporary. Scott, 36, is a New York-based flight attendant who frequents San Francisco gay dance clubs on his weekly stopovers. For the past six years, Scott has suffered from tinnitus. The ringing in his ears never stops. "It's constant," says Scott. "It's the worst when it's quiet because all I can hear is the ringing." Scott says he got tinnitus one evening after dancing too close to the speakers at an Atlanta dance club. "My ears were ringing when I left the club that night and it's never stopped"
Kanani Cruz, 34, says she used to go to clubs at least once a week. Now she goes about three times a month. Cruz says the noise is so extreme that she "can't hear shit" when she leaves often gets headaches and ringing in the ears following her club attendance.
Julie Macias, 28, attributes a steady loss in her hearing to regular clubgoing. "When I leave the clubs, my ears ring all night till the morning," says Macias. "I've had to wear a special headset at work to boost the sound so I can hear the callers and I've learned to lip read."
One night in particular I was DJing in a club where the sound system was particularly loud, that night I went home with a ringing sensation so bad that it took my ears several days to get back to normal. In one ear, the ringing has never completely stopped. Nowadays I am very sensitive to loud music (particularly high / treble frequencies) and the mild tinnitus I have normally increases dramatically if I expose myself to loud music. This can cause some problems for me as I work in a recording studio. I very rarely DJ these days, but if I do I am careful to wear earplugs. I would like to see more responsibility placed on nightclub owners and sound equipment manufacturers/installers to ensure that sound systems are designed and set up to minimize the risk of hearing damage to clubbers. Simon (24) is from Cheshire and works as a sound designer and composer (www.dontlosethemusic.com)
Alice's story.... Since I was 16 I have been going out almost every Friday and Saturday night. The music in the clubs I used to go to in Sheffield was really loud so loud in fact that you couldnt hear people talking (or shouting) above the music. The first time I went out, I remember going home in a taxi and not being able to hear properly. Over time this got worse, so that my hearing wouldnt return to normal for a couple of days. Now I'm 20 I have a permanent mild hearing loss and a mild ringing sensation in my ears all the time. Surely the musicians and bands want us to be able to enjoy the music both now and in the future? If thats the case they should tell the fans how best to protect their hearing in the long term. (www.dontlosethemusic.com)
Kathy Peck, CO-founder of the San Francisco based "Hearing Education and Awareness for Rockers" targets her educational efforts towards young people who think hearing loss is something that happens much later in life. "It needs to be taken seriously, too many people think that hearing loss is old age, and it's not." She was recently contacted by an audiologist from Alaska concerned about children who suffered hearing loss from blasting the volume on their portable stereo headphones. The audiologist was worried because the children couldn't hear bears walking in the snow. "They were afraid their lives were threatened," says Peck. A University of Florida study backed up that concern. It found that 17% of adolescents are already suffering from some degree of hearing loss.
Pete Avila, 34, is a DJ with 14 years experience spinning in the Bay Area and is one of the country's most influential and innovative DJs. He has the classic symptoms of noise-induced hearing loss. Avila has difficulty hearing conversations when there's background noise. "When there's a busy restaurant with a lot of noise, it's hard for me to hear someone who's sitting right across from me," he says. He sometimes misunderstands words and has to turn up the TV louder than most people. Avila wears earplugs when he's on the dance floor but not while he's working. "It's difficult, because when you are in the club situation and in the moment, you sort of want the music loud to feel what people are feeling on the dance floor," he says. Avila was music director at the Sound Factory for four years and concedes "it took a toll on my ears." Over the years, Avila has worked at virtually every dance club in San Francisco. He says no club owner ever expressed concern about the hearing health of its workers or patrons.
"The deejays suffer incredibly," says San Francisco dance music producer Tyler Stone. "I've worked in the studio with a lot of deejays and these people need to really crank the volume to levels that are unbelievable to me." There's "incredible denial" about the problem, Stone said. "Quite honestly, I don't think there's any awareness in the club scene.�
The Royal National Institute for Deaf People (RNID) recently launched a club noise awareness campaign in Great Britain after a RNID survey found that 62% of regular clubbers have symptoms of hearing loss. RNID reports that the numbers of young people exposed to dangerous noise levels has tripled since the early 80's. It also found that tinnitus rates among young people have increased three fold during that same time period. "We are roller-coasting towards an epidemic of hearing loss in middle rather than older age," says RHID's Chief Executive James Strachan.
Why don't the clubs turn the volume down? Club owners say they are giving you what you want. If you think it's too loud, let them know. It's a free country, no one's forcing anyone to go in the clubs, if people want to listen to music that loud and employees want to work in clubs around music so loud, why should anyone tell them they can't? Labor laws don't allow employers to subject employees to unnecessary and dangerous environmental conditions, period. As a business customer, you are protected from just about every other environmental risk. For example, a business is required to provide enough fire exits and adequate ventilation. One exception is noise. A business can legally provide an environment that could permanently destroy your hearing. Your only recourse is a civil lawsuit but since most hearing loss is insidious, you would have a hard time proving the source of your hearing damage. I've been going to the clubs for years without earplugs and my hearing is fine, if I was susceptible to hearing damage wouldn't I have noticed the effects by now? No, we're all susceptible to hearing loss. By the time you've noticed you've lost it, it's too late. You can prevent further damage but you'll never regain what's lost. And keep in mind, many people have developed tinitus (permanent ringing in the ears) or hyperacusis (being overly sensitive to noise) after just one exposure to very loud noise.
Decibel Exposure Time Guidelines
Accepted standards for recommended permissible exposure time for continuous time weighted average noise, according to NIOSH and CDC, 2002. For every 3 dBs over 85dBA (A weighting), the permissible exposure time before possible damage can occur is cut in half.
Continuous dB Permissible Exposure Time
85 db 8 hours
88 dB 4 hours
91 db 2 hours
94 db 1 hour
97 db 30 minutes
100 db 15 minutes
103 db 7.5 minutes
106 dB 3.75 min (< 4min)
109 dB 1.875 min (< 2min)
112 dB .9375 min (~1 min)
115 dB .46875 min (~30 sec)
2. International Resources:
Hearing Education and Awareness for Rockers:
http://www.hearnet.com
A wealth of information about how to protect your hearing.
Action on Hearing Loss:
http://www.actiononhearingloss.org.uk/
Information about hearing protection, brought to you by UK�s RNID (The Royal National Institute for Deaf People)
Dangerous Decibels: http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/hearingloss.cfm
A public health partnership for prevention of noise-induced hearing loss (also includes decibel exposure time guidelines)
Etymotic Research, Inc. http://www.etymotic.com/
Etymotic sells isolator earphones for iPods, they seal out surrounding noise so the sound comes through clearer & cleaner at lower volumes.
Westone Laboratories, Inc. http://www.westone.com/
W estone Laboratories, Inc. is widely recognized as the worldwide leader in the design & manufacturing of custom earmolds for hearing healthcare and other applications. In addition to carrying thousands of products for use by professionals and their patients, Westone is also a source of technical counsel, ideas, and assistance.
Earplug Store http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/
The Earplug store sells thousands of earplugs, and also sells custom Musician�s Earplugs (you can send them impressions from an audiologist, or they also have a do-it-yourself kit by mail)
3. Local (West Coast) Resources:
California Dept. of Industrial Relations
http://www.dir.ca.gov/Title8/5097.html
http://www.dir.ca.gov/Title8/5098.html
California requirements for controlling noise exposure (for club employees)
Audiologists/Custom Earplug Vendors:
ACS Custom USA � San Fransisco (Manufacturing, Sales, Service & 3D Ear Scanning)
855 Stanton Road #300
Burlingame, CA,
94010
ACS Custom USA � New York (Sales, Service & 3D Ear Scanning)
@ SIR Studios
520 W 25th Street
New York, NY
10001
ACS Custom USA � Los Angeles (Sales & Service)
1616 Vista Del Mar
Los Angeles, CA
90028
Office hours are 9am to 6pm in each location Monday � Friday
Tel : 646 559 5642
email : usinfo(at)acscustom.com
Tracy Family Hearing Center
Cydney Fox
2300 S. Flower Street, Ste 304 Los Angeles, CA 90007
Phone: (213) 742-1341 Fax: (213) 742-6537 [email protected]
Custom Earmolds, Hearing Protection Devices , Swim Plugs, Music Products, Communication Products, Accessories/Supplies
The Towers Audiology Center
Sharon MacDuffee
8631 W. Third Street, #312E Los Angeles, CA 90048
Phone: (310) 652-4327 Fax: (310) 652-7900
Custom Earmolds, Hearing Protection Devices , Swim Plugs, Music Products, Communication Products, Accessories/Supplies
House Ear Clinic http://www.houseearclinic.com/
2100 West 3rd Street
Los Angeles, CA 90057
(213) 483-9930
The Hearing Doctor
http://www.thehearingdoctor.com/
8920 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 404
Beverly Hills, CA 90211
310.659.1212
9702 Venice Blvd., #A
Culver City, CA 90232
310.559.4884
19100 Ventura Blvd. #16
Tarzana, CA 91356
818.609.1331
HearUSA
A nationwide network of audiology centers, that perform hearing tests, make custom earplugs and more. Click the link above to find one near you.
i support a coalition of EDM in sign language! that's what i'm talking about. Frankie Wilde baby!
Hearing loss is a very serious concern. Once you lose a little hearing, thats it. It's gone forever.
Usually your HMO should provide audiology tests but if you don't have insurance you need to get at least one, especially if you haven't had one for a few years. It's worth the money. If you could prove hearing loss as a result of unsafe noise conditions with a before and after audiology test, there is bound to be a settlement waiting for you.
Clubs aren't THAT loud, they are only at dangerous levels in the middle of the dance floor, between all the speakers. Up front by the DJ booth is usually less loud than just a few yards back.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by camsr Hearing loss is a very serious concern. Once you lose a little hearing, thats it. It's gone forever. Usually your HMO should provide audiology tests but if you don't have insurance you need to get at least one, especially if you haven't had one for a few years. It's worth the money. If you could prove hearing loss as a result of unsafe noise conditions with a before and after audiology test, there is bound to be a settlement waiting for you. Clubs aren't THAT loud, they are only at dangerous levels in the middle of the dance floor, between all the speakers. Up front by the DJ booth is usually less loud than just a few yards back. |
I hate articles that simply base hearing loss in pure decibel level. There's so much more than that. Tuning is SO crucial! It's why you can go into two different clubs where the music is entering your ear at the same decibel level but when you leave one club your ears are phone and in another your ears are ringing for a days. It's because of the tuning.
I think I've read one article in my life that fully explored the importance of both tuning AND volume, it was about five years ago and think it was a site that actually translated the article from a foreign magazine. Even had quotes from some DJs like PvD and emphasized how important it was for clubs to constantly have their gear retuned as systems tuning can get a bit out of whack on a frequency level after not much use, although we can't hear the difference with our own ears until it's tuning gets quite a bit out of whack. I'll look around for it, but prob won't find it.
That said, you should still take care of your ears...cause I just said, a system can be out of tune even though it sounds crisp to our ears!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by in2muzikk I'm okay as long as I dance far from the speakers, right? Wrong. Of course it's best to dance away from the speakers but you're still in danger without earplugs. The biggest difference in sound levels was noticed at the space on 3rd and Harrison, home to several dance clubs, including City Nights and Faith. If you dance on the back of the stage above the main dance floor, you'll save yourself about 4 decibels, but you would still be well in the danger zone. |
STICKY!
Very good info, I really need to invest in a pair myself 
thats a lotta reading.
I learned exactly how the ear works in my sensation perception class. I was taught by a big researcher in the auditory field. It was really indepth and I learned a ton about wtf goes wrong.
I haven't invested in any just yet, but I do plan on making a trip to guitar center and pickin up some hear-os, er whatever they are called.
I support this thread, summary please? Let me take a crack at it....Prolonged exposure to Loud Music screws up your hearing, so use ear plugs or go deaf. Amirite?
I need to get around to getting some ear plugs no doubt.
Sound check: LA Nightclubs
So, many of us have asked "How loud are clubs in LA?" Below are some results of an unnofficial sound check using a pocket-size Soundcheck sound level indicator from Sensorcom. There are 3 lights on the meter, green on the right, yellow center, and red on the left.
The noise levels are interpreted as follows*:
Green: Flickering = 55dB
Green: On continuously = 60dB
Yellow: Flickering = 75dB
Yellow: On continuously = 80dB onset of 1st action level
Red: Pulsing slowly = 100db beyond 2nd action level
Red: Pulsing rapidly = >100db (dangerous)
Red: On continuously = >105db (very dangerous)
*Soundcheck is accurate within 3dB
Rather than just list the results, I thought it would add some credibility to show the meter in action, so here goes:
Circus LA, 4/14/07:
Front of floor measured between 100-105db
Middle, back of the floor and the front right-hand side also measured 100-105db
Middle
Back
Right Front Side
Vanguard LA, 4/21/07:
Front, middle and back of floor also measured 100-105db, with the back sometimes going over 105db
Front
Middle
Back
Avalon LA, 4/28/07:
Front, middle and back of floor measured over 105db (keep in mind that this meter maxes out at 105db, so the actual level could be higher). All other areas in the club (lobby, upstairs chill-out area) showed over 100db.
Front
Middle
Back
Red (Arena) LA, 6/1/07:
Front of floor was approx. 105db, based on almost solid, but still very rapidly pulsing red LED. Middle and back measured 100-105db.
Front
Middle
Back
Read up to the chart above (page 1), and per the NIOSH and CDC, the permissable exposure time before possible hearing damage at these levels without any hearing protection is between 4-15 minutes. Avalon, the loudest of the clubs measured so far, is safe for less than 4 minutes.
Later in the night, I checked a few more times and the meter had gone solid red (above 105db) at all these clubs. That's the max it will measure, so without a professional SPL meter, it's difficult to know exactly how loud it was.
We're probably not gonna stop going out, so what's the best way to deal with this? Here are some suggestions:
so in saftey terms...
what is the safest club in LA?
Dunno, only two measured now far as I know, but I say we get some more meters and go check 'em all out!
SO much good info! Thanks for all of it! =)
Say the main room in Vanguard is 105 DB, how much would ear plugs cut the DB level down to?
That would be cool if they could have a professional SPL meter at Vanguard. That place seems so LOUD. Great, clean sound from the Funktion-one system, but the amount of sound they put out is massive. I don't see how people can be on the main floor without any ear plugs. Even with the ER-20's, it still seems too loud for me. I know with the NRR 32-33 ones, you lose a lot of the clarity that the ER-20s have but for me they work better overall because I need that extra NR.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by MoBreakz Say the main room in Vanguard is 105 DB, how much would ear plugs cut the DB level down to? |
this should be a sticky
I havent posted in a while but Im pretty sure clubbing f*cked up my hearing. My Girlfriend says I put everything way to loud plus I have problems hearing people with lots of background noise around (like the DJ said). It sucks I dont really want to think about it because there is nothing I can do, but its definitely pretty obvious to my friends.
It happens...take the time and get earplugs.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by MoBreakz Say the main room in Vanguard is 105 DB, how much would ear plugs cut the DB level down to? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by rizen this should be a sticky |
i use these and i'm very pleased with their performance.
I never ever ever leave home without my ear plugs. I will turn around and go back home if I forget them (it has only happened once). I couldn't imagine going into a club without them. One thing that BLOWS MY MIND is when I see people under the influence of alcohol or a drug sitting against a speaker stack with the sound shooting right into their ears!!! That has got to be the worst thing you can do to your hearing!!! Sitting against a bass box displacing all that air destroys your hearing.
The first time I ever had ringing was after Coachella 2004. I was at the festival from noon to midnight, 12 full hours. The sound punished my ears all day. When I left the festival I had horrible ringing and a splitting headache...the ringing lasted for 2 days. I learned my lesson the first time.
I protect my ears at every possible moment. I never turn the radio up in my car, when I wear earphones or headphones I keep the volume at around 60%. I feel that most damage to a person's hearing is done outside of a club. Take my sister for example, she never goes out to clubs but she cranks her car stereo up almost to the max, she listens to her home stereo at near max volume, she has her ipod on max everytime she uses it...and these are things she does EVERY SINGLE DAY. Her hearing is BAD...she is in denial and doesn't want to accept it. She can't watch TV at a normal volume, she can't engage in a conversation with background noise, she can't hear the front door open or close...the list goes on and on.
Don't think that using earplugs at a club makes everything better. You have to be careful in your daily routine also! I am a gun enthusiast and love to shoot, but I also love my hearing. I wore cheap plugs a few times but I would still get ringing so I invested in some custom shooters plugs similar to musicians plugs but the shooters plugs cut all frequencies 35-37db. Be concious of your surroundings and turn things down a bit when YOU have the control to turn down the volume!!!
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