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-- Tunisia, Egypt, yemen, Libya, Bahrain,Syria, Who is next?
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Tunisia, Egypt, yemen, Libya, Bahrain,Syria, Who is next?

I thought I would open a thread and get some discussions going. What is everyone's thought on what is happening today in the Middle East? what do you think the future will look like in the region? I think what is happening there right now is just a begining and we will see more and more protests in the region.

I came acorss this article on how Iran is gaining more control in the region.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...2524eb913decab1

quote:

Iran's allies gain clout and possible softer edges DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) � From the Afghan badlands to the Mediterranean, evidence of Iran's reach is easy to spot: a mix of friend and foe for Kabul leaders, a power broker in Iraq, deep alliances with Syria and a big brother to Lebanon's Hezbollah and Hamas in Gaza. Tehran's proxy portfolio suddenly has a bit more aura after Hezbollah's political gambit � bringing down a pro-Western government in Lebanon and moving into position to pick its successor. To those keeping score, it would appear that Iran is winning some important points around the Middle East at the expense of Washington and its allies. But such gains have potential built-in costs, experts say. With Iran's extended family increasingly joining the ranks of power � first in Gaza, then Iraq and now Lebanon � there also comes pressure to moderate and make other compromises often required from those in charge. It eventually could bring some uncomfortable contrasts for Tehran � with its partners in the region embracing more flexible policies and Iran facing more sanctions and isolation for refusing to make concessions over its nuclear program. "Certainly there is more visible Iranian influence around the region," said Salman Shaikh, director of The Brookings Doha Center in Qatar. "But these are no longer just vassals of Iran. As they move into political roles, there will be changes that Iran cannot control. We shouldn't look at Lebanon as a zero-sum game between Iran and the West." The same may hold true elsewhere. In Iraq, influence from Iran is on the rise now that backers of militant Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr have joined the government in Baghdad, which already had deep ties with Iran. Al-Sadr remains fiercely opposed to American "occupiers" � which his Mahdi Army militia battled for years. But al-Sadr � who took refuge in Iran in 2007 � showed hints of trying to cultivate a more statesmanlike demeanor during his first visit back to Iraq. Al-Sadr this month held meetings that included pro-Western figures such as President Jalal Talabani and urged Iraq's majority Shiites and Sunnis to look beyond their past bloodshed. There's little chance that al-Sadr will ease his demands that the Pentagon stick to its timetable to withdraw all troops by the end of the year. And his Iranian links are obvious. At a speech in the Shiite holy city of Najaf, his guards wore Iranian style outfits: identical gray suits with shirts and no ties. "Yet now he has to answer to the Iraqi people about rebuilding the country," said Hadi Jalo, a political analyst at Baghdad University. "He goes from outsider to insider and that means he has to look in all directions, including the West, and not just toward Iran." Syria, too, appears to be facing similar choices. Earlier this month, the first U.S. ambassador to Syria since 2005 took up his post in Damascus. Washington hopes the deeper diplomatic engagement will further nudge Syrian President Bashar Assad into the Western fold and perhaps make him more receptive to future talks with Israel and appeals to cut support for Hezbollah. About a week later, Iran's acting foreign minister, Ali Akbar Salehi, held talks in Syria over "regional developments," said Syria's state news agency SANA. High on the agenda was the political upheaval in Lebanon and their roles as co-patrons of Hezbollah, which became heroes in the Muslim world for its war with Israel in 2006. The Shiite militant group has added to its stature by becoming Lebanon's king-maker: On Tuesday, Hezbollah picked billionaire businessman Najib Mikati as its choice for prime minister. Lebanon's government fell after months of tensions over a U.N.-backed investigation into the 2005 assassination of former Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. Many Lebanese blamed the killing on Syria and Hezbollah � with huge protests forcing Syria to end its 29-year military presence in Lebanon and opening the way for a pro-Western government led by Saad Hariri, the slain politician's son. The Hague-based tribunal has issued indictments, but they have not been made public. Many expect Hezbollah to be named. Mikati, however, immediately sought to ease worries that Iran was now pulling the strings in Lebanon. "I am not in a confrontation with the West," he told the private LBC station. "We are looking to build good relations with the West." To some, it's not an empty promise � even as the Obama administration reconsiders its economic and military support for Lebanon, which has totaled $720 million since 2006. Israeli officials and others have noted that important U.S. allies in the Arab world, such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt, have raised no serious objections to the U.S.-educated Mikati despite their deep-seated worries about Iran. Saudi Arabia, however, advised its citizens Wednesday not to travel to Lebanon until "the return of calm and stability." "Lebanon will not suddenly become more Iranian or more 'Hezbollian' than it was two days ago," said a commentary in the Israeli daily Ha'aretz. "It will primarily be more Syrian, and that is a major difference, as Syria � which seeks to move closer to the United States and, thanks to France, sees itself as close to Europe � does not want Iran to seize control in its traditional sphere of influence." That still doesn't lessen the entrenched suspicions many Lebanese have toward Hezbollah and its backers in Iran. A secret diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks describes an April 2008 meeting in Beirut in which Lebanon's telecommunications minister at the time, Marwan Hamadeh, tells a U.S. diplomat about a fiber optics network installed in Hezbollah-controlled areas. The memo, from the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, said Hamadeh called it "a strategic victory" for Iran's telecoms agency by creating an "an important Iranian outpost in Lebanon" that further binds Hezbollah to Tehran. Earlier this week, Lebanon's Sunnis staged two days of riots, decrying Shiite Hezbollah for leading what they called an Iran-linked "coup" in bringing down Hariri's government and bringing in one of its own choosing. Meir Javedanfar, an Iranian-born political analyst based in Israel, said the unrest cannot be ignored by Iran's ruling clerics. "It was Hezbollah's actions that convinced many Sunnis to pour into the streets ... shouting 'Death to Hezbollah,'" he said. "This is something which Israel, despite its massive military superiority, could never achieve. Food for thought for Iran's senior decision makers." Iran also was stung by demonstrations in Afghanistan this month over Tehran's decision to temporarily suspend shipments of fuel over suspicions they were aiding NATO forces. Fuel prices shot up as much as 70 percent in impoverished Afghanistan. It was a display of both Iran's importance as an economic lifeline to Afghanistan and its apparent sympathies for groups fighting U.S. forces and others. Iran has deep cultural and linguistic ties to much of western Afghanistan, which was once part of the Persian Empire. U.S. officials have alleged that Iran is providing weapons and other support to the Taliban and the so-called "Quetta Shura" � or governing council � believed led by Taliban commander Mullah Omar. It would, however, be an alliance of convenience that could strengthen the same forces that once targeted Iranians. Iran was a staunch opponent of the Taliban when it ruled Afghanistan before the U.S.-led invasion triggered by the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. "In the short-term, Iran is playing its hand well, especially in Lebanon," said analyst Javedanfar. "This will boost Iran's position in the region as well as its leverage in negotiations with the West over its nuclear program. However, the Iranian are not playing the long-term game very well."

Is it safe to say the U.S. is losing it's influence in the region? How important is Iran's role in all of this? So much going on and lots to talk about. Lets get a good discussion going like the old days.

Hopefully no authoritarian regime collapses only to be replaced by the filth that is political Islam.

I agree. Let�s hope that the people will make the right decision. Although I believe we should respect whatever that decision might be.
The final result of all this will probably not make the U.S. that happy, since Egypt is its key ally in the region and if a religious group takes over the country that is bad news for both Israel and the U.S. as well.

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer The final result of all this will probably not make the U.S. that happy, since Egypt is its key ally in the region and if a religious group takes over the country that is bad news for both Israel and the U.S. as well.

I would say it would be even more bad news for the Egyptians themselves. A theocracy is no less authoritarian than any autocratic regime. The Egyptians would be incredibly stupid to give the Muslim Brotherhood control of the government because we all know what their true objective is, and that is an Islamic state ruled by Shari'a law.

Good article I came across today:

quote:

Analysis: Israel concerned if Mubarak should fall DUBAI � From Egypt to Jordan and Algeria to Yemen, Tunisia�s �Jasmine Revolution� has begun to undermine Arab regimes that have for decades maintained their control through fear, analysts say. �The question is who remains,� not which country is next, said Amr Hamzawy, research director at the Carnegie Middle East Centre in Beirut, adding protests could affect most Arab states except for Gulf oil monarchies. �There have been some protest activities in the past in a scattered manner, but now there is a regional trend where citizens are taking to the streets to protest for social, economic and political rights � it�s not a one-country issue and a one-day phenomenon.� �What happened in Tunisia has broken the shackles of fear and showed that it was possible � with surprising speed � to topple a regime, and that it wasn�t as difficult as the people imagined,� said Burhan Ghalioun, director of the Centre d��tudes sur l�Orient Contemporain in Paris who in 1977 wrote a Manifesto for Democracy in the Arab world. Egyptians have long shared the grievances that drove Tunisians to revolt. Unemployment, low wages and sky-rocketing food prices have all contributed to the rumbling wave of popular discontent. But the fear of serious strife in Egypt has set alarm bells ringing in Israel. �The Israeli strategic community is praying that this unrest in Egypt will fade away and not escalate into a prolonged period of instability,� said Gidi Grinstein, founder and president of the respected Reut Institute think tank. Israel has long sought normal relations with its neighbours, but Egypt was its only Arab associate until the peace process launched by the 1993 Oslo interim accords led to a treaty with Jordan and a few other Arab countries. However, Egypt remains by far its most important Middle East partner, a regular facilitator in interminable peace negotiations and until now a rock of stability in an otherwise turbulent area. Israeli officials say in private they cannot believe President Hosni Mubarak will be overthrown by the demonstrations. But if he should fall, there is no guarantee whoever might follow him will continue to tend to Israel ties. Ordinary Egyptians have never warmed to Israel, despite more than three decades of peace, and regularly blame it for their woes. �If Mubarak is toppled then Israel will be totally isolated in the region,� said Alon Liel, a former director-general of the Israeli Foreign Ministry and a former ambassador to Turkey. The unrest in Egypt has also presented the Obama administration with a delicate balancing act, juggling its desire for a return to Middle Eastern stability, its support for democratic principles and its determination to avoid the rise of an anti-U.S. Islamist government in Cairo potentially allied with Iran. Weighing in for the first time after three days of Egyptian unrest, U.S. President Barack Obama called on Mr. Mubarak to make �absolutely critical� political reforms. The Arab protest movements have also highlighted weaknesses and the lack of popular legitimacy of some Arab regimes. �You cannot run society without offering social justice, without distributing revenues in a just manner and without giving people their political freedom and rights. Nobody can accept that in the 21st century, and Arabs are showing they are no exception,� said Mr. Hamzawy. Ghassan Sharbel, editor-in-chief of the pan-Arab daily Al-Hayat, said, �Either Arab regimes listen to popular demands and decide to start real reforms, or they continue to rely only on the security apparatus, and in that case these regimes could collapse� one after the other. http://www.nationalpost.com/news/wo...1268/story.html

As far as I know no one really knows who could be in power of Mubarak goes. Should be interesting to see how far the Egyptian regime will go stop this unrest.

A good look at whats happening in Lebanon today and its effect on Israel.

quote:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/43298.html Lebanon: Hezbollah�s political triumph The radical Shiite Islamist Hezbollah has had an extraordinary political elevation in Lebanon. After causing the collapse of Western-backed Saad Hariri�s government two weeks ago in a row over a UN tribunal investigating the assassination of Saad�s father and Lebanese prime minister, Rafik Hariri, in 2005, Hezbollah now has its nominee, Najib Mikati, appointed as prime minister to form the next government. This shift in power places Lebanese politics on a knife-edge and upsets further the regional status quo in favour of Hezbollah�s supporters, Iran and Syria. It must make the US and Israel wonder where they went wrong. Despite being designated by Israel, the US and their allies as a terrorist organisation, Hezbollah has moved from strength to strength. Ever since prompting Israel to make a unilateral withdrawal in 2000 from its �zone of security� in southern Lebanon, which it had established as a result of its 1982 invasion of Lebanon, Hezbollah has become a formidable national and regional political and military player. Israel�s military assaults, including the mid-2006 one (which was fully backed by the US and Britain) to weaken or destroy Hezbollah have had no success. If anything, Israeli operations have helped Hezbollah�s stature grow as a popular liberationist organisation not only within Lebanon, but also amongst the Arab and Muslim masses. Hezbollah�s successes have inspired many Islamist groups in the region, most importantly the Palestinian Sunni Islamist movement, Hamas, which is also branded by Israel and many of its Western supporters, especially the US, as a terrorist organisation. Like Hezbollah, Hamas�s ability to win the democratic January 2006 Palestinian parliamentary elections and to take control of the Gaza Strip in mid-2007, as well as to survive Israel�s major military assault from late 2008 to early 2009 and its illegal and inhumane blockade of Gaza to punish the Gazans collectively for backing Hamas, have assisted Hamas to emerge as another potent force against the Jewish state. However, Hamas does not operate in tandem with Hezbollah. It receives mainly political and moral support from Iran and Syria, but it is nonetheless well placed within the Iranian and Syrian strategic aim of surrounding Israel in a way that the US has encircled Iran from the Gulf, Iraq, Afghanistan and Central Asia. Israel has drawn on the American approach to keep a close eye on Syria and Iran, and the latter two count on Hezbollah and Hamas to moderate Israel. Hezbollah�s political dominance in Lebanon and its growing military capability have already drawn a bitter and incriminatory response from Hariri�s camp, and the US and Israel. Their sentiment is shared by a number of pro-Western conservative Arab governments, led by those of Saudi Arabia and Egypt. However, there is not much they can do. The authoritarian regime of Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak is also now shaken by a nationwide popular uprising, spurred by the success of the Tunisian people�s toppling of their autocratic ruler in mid-January. In many ways, the scene is set for a bloody confrontation within Lebanon and in the region. Hezbollah�s political triumph has come about not because it or, for that matter, Iran and Syria, has operated outside the normal political games that political groups play in a pluralist polity and nations enact in pursuit of what they regard to be their national interests. It has acted within the bounds of the complex and overlapping contours of Lebanese politics, based on a consociational model of power-sharing. Under this model the Lebanese presidency is allocated to a Christian, prime ministership is allocated to a Sunni Muslim and the Speakership of the National Assembly to a Shiite Muslim, with the cabinet posts divided between various confessional groups. Hezbollah has been able to master the support of a bloc of parties, which includes Maronite Christians and Druze. If it were not for the backing of these elements (especially the Druze Progressive Socialist Party, led by Walid Jumblatt), Hezbollah would not have been in a position to change the correlation of forces in its favour and secure parliamentary approval for its Sunni nominee, Mikati. The US and Israeli isolation of Hezbollah and Hamas as terrorist organisations, their double standards towards Iran over its nuclear program, and Israel�s continued occupation of the Syrian Golan Heights and Palestinian lands have played a critical part in the transformation of Hezbollah and Hamas. They, together with the Iraq and Afghanistan fiascos, have also provided Iran and Syria with unique opportunities to advance their regional political and security interests. The Lebanese problem and that of the Palestinians cannot be equitably and amicably resolved without the US and its allies engaging both Hezbollah and Hamas and Israel withdrawing to its pre-1967 borders. Nor can the overall dire regional situation improve without a US-Iranian rapprochement and US support for democratic reform across the region. Barack Obama seems to be keenly aware of these imperatives, but the pro-Israeli lobby and the long-standing American-Israeli strategic partnership have imposed enormous limitations on him. As long as there is no structural change in the US-Israeli relationship, one can expect forces such as Hezbollah and its backers to remain in a position of growing influence in Lebanon and the region.

Great articles. Yemen's next: Yemen: Tens of thousands call on president to leave

I think at some point we might see the same to happen in Saudi Arabia. Does anyone here think that is a possibilty?

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer I think at some point we might see the same to happen in Saudi Arabia. Does anyone here think that is a possibilty?

Don't think it'll happen. The Al Sauds (corrupt ruling royal family) have a strong grip over their citizens. Also, it's in the locals' best interest to not try to topple the monarchy, as it would cause immense instability in all spheres of their society. Hypothetically speaking, this scenario would certainly lead to the emigration of foreign workers who are a large and influential constituent of the workforce (making up roughly one third of the total population). In this case, the end result would be economic collapse. In other words, Saudi society cannot be solely dependant on its own citizens to keep the country running smoothly. Also, 'Saudiization' (a term that refers to the employment of Saudis in fields usually taken by immigrant workers) has been gaining momentum thoroughout the past decade, but it is still in its early stages.

Surprisingly, there were some recent protests, but they weren't political. A small group of people were protesting against the inexistence of drainage systems in Jeddah. This protest came about in response to the recent floods that took place. It took a serious toll on the infrastructure of the city, leaving it crippled for several days. The protesters were especially enraged by the fact that the government took no action after the floods in 2009. May I add that it has taken many lives, much more than the Saudi gov officially disclosed. The last time I checked it was 11. This is a lot lower than the official figure for the 2009 flood (much worse than the recent one), which was 'officially' led to 77 people.

quote:

Hundreds detained in Saudi Arabia over protests Saudi authorities detained hundreds of demonstrators on Friday in Jeddah who gathered to protest against poor infrastructure after deadly floods swept through Saudi Arabia's second biggest city, police and witnesses said. Some Jeddah streets remained submerged on Friday, and electricity was still out in low-lying parts of the city two days after torrential rains caused flooding that killed at least four people and swept away cars. The protest came after mass messages sent over BlackBerry smart phones called for popular action in response to the flood, an unusual move in the Arab state at a time of spreading anti-government unrest across the Arab world. Protesters gathered for about 15 minutes after Friday prayers on a main Jeddah shopping street and shouted 'God is Greatest' before authorities broke up the protest and detained participants, a witness who works in a nearby shop told Reuters. One police officer said around 30 protesters were detained and police were pursuing others who fled to a nearby building. Another officer put the number held at around 50. About 12 police cars surrounded the building where protesters were hiding, and 30 more blocked off the street near where the protest happened. A mass message sent via BlackBerry Messenger on Thursday urged Jeddah residents to join a demonstration on Saturday over the floods, while another urged all government and private sector employees to hold a general strike next week. But Friday's protest had been unexpected. The call for action in the top oil exporter, where public protest is not tolerated, comes as open defiance of authoritarian rulers spreads, with protests in Egypt and Yemen inspired by unrest which toppled Tunisia's president this month.

Source

You also have regular protests outside Saudi embassies regarding the inhumane treatment of Shi'a Muslims within the country, but they don't seem to affect the decisions of the Wahabis in Mecca.

I received this great article on my email today and I highly suggest everyone to read it, truly amazing:

quote:

ON THE POLITICAL FRONT, given the political upheaval in Egypt and other countries, we thought it might be worthwhile to note the relative�ages� of the regimes across northern Africa. Moving from West to East, the King of Morocco, Mohammed VI, has been in power since 1999 and he assumed the throne of this constitutional monarchy in July of that year following the death of his father, King Hassan II, who himself had ruled the kingdom since 1961,assuming the kingship from his father, Mohammed V. King Mohammed VI is rather well liked by his people, and although there are reports from time to time of troubles within the Kingdom, we do not expect to see this monarchy overthrown. It will survive. There were reports yesterday in the Spanish media that Morocco�s King Mohammed had organized his military to oppose protests that might develop. The official Moroccan news agency has taken issue with those reports� obviously. Moving to the east and Algeria, President Abdelaziz Bouteflika has been in power since 1999, having come to power in an election that year in which he won 74% of the vote. We should remember that there were elections to have been held in �92, but were cancelled by the military when it became clear that the Islamist oriented Salvation Front was going to win. The military took control and Bouteflika assumed the Presidency in what most perceive to be reasonably free elections. President Bouteflika has battled al-Queda in the Islamic Maghreb for years and the organisation remains an active, although obviously a small minority force there. AQIM can be expected to ramp up its anti-government activities as a result of the Tunisia/Egypt situation but the military is strong enough and anti-Islamist enough to retain control of the situation. COMMENTS ON THE CAPITAL MARKETS THE WAGES OF SIN ARE RICHES ABROAD IN EXILE: We here in the US and many in Europe really do need to understand just how amazingly corrupt so many of the world�s dictators and regimes have been in the past fifty years. Kleptocracy is a word now rather common, but not so long ago few really knew what a �Kleptocrat� was, nor did they know just how corrupt these people were... or could be. The sums of money stolen from nation�s everywhere around the world is mind-numbing, and a reason for the rising anger made evident by the toppling of the regime in Tunisia, the soon-to-be-toppled regime in Egypt, and the not-soon-far-off-toppling of regimes in the Persian Gulf, in the Middle East and across the rest of Africa. The Financial Times had a recent article noting the high and low range of estimates on the funds stolen by dictators and autocrats around the world, and we thought it worthy of reporting here this morning. These are stunning sums, and in order to be simple, we�ve taken the average of the range of the low �Guesstimate� to the high in order to rank these thieves (to make things right, the FT has issued these figures in �09 dollars, to account for inflation over the years): Firstly, and standing head-and-shoulders above all others, was the former Shah of Iran, Mohammed Pahlavi, who �stole� $35 billion. Given the present day population of 65 million people, that is approximately $540/capital that the Shah stole� and remember, that is from every single person in the country. This is not an inconsiderable sum. Next on the list if the always popular Saddam Hussein who �stole� $25 billion. That�s roughly equivalent to $910/capita, so although he stole less money than did the Shaw, he stole nearly twice as much per capita and he shall reign as the champion long into the future. But remember, records are always meant to be broken. Next is Suharto of Indonesia, who stole just a bit less than $25 billion from the country, but because Indonesia�s population is so much larger than it that of Iran or Iraq his per capita theft was much smaller� "only� a bit more than $105. Suharto then is almost a gentleman when compared to the other two just above. Houphouet-Boigny of the Cote D�Ivoire had a much smaller county with far fewer economies within the country to steal from, but he still stole plenty. The FT has his �theft� at approximately $8 billion but he stole from a country with only 18 million people, so his per capital theft took him to just under $450/person. Houphouet-Boigny gave it the �old college try� but just can�t compete with the �Big Boys� like Saddam and the shah. This then brings us to Ferdinand Marcos and his infamous, shoe-loving wife, Imelda, whom The FT thinks stole approximately $7.5 billion from the people of the Philippines. Given the size of the population there, the Marcos� were almost humanitarian in their stealing, taking �only� a little more than $80/person from their fellow citizens. A few shoes less and Ms. Marcos might have been an candidate for a Nobel Peace Prize given how readily the Nobel committee gave out the award two years ago to our President who had been in office less than two months. Moving right along then, Mobuto Sese-Seko was always one of our favourite despots, capable of the most amazingly inhumane tactics against his enemies, killing tens of thousands of his fellow Zairians�. And he robbed the country blind in the slaughtering, stealing $6 billion. Apparently there was just not that much more he could steal at the time, so he succeeded in stealing �only� $90/person, but as a percentage of total GDP, Mobuto is probably the leader of this felonious pack. The family of President Jose Eduardo dos Santos in Angola has plundered that state, stealing $5 billion and given that there are only a few more than 12 million Angolans, this small sum is sufficient to push Dos Santos into the upper echelons of per capita theft. Dos Santos stole very nearly $420/person from his fellow citizens. However, we look for President dos Santos to move up the scale over time for he is still in power and Angola is swiftly becoming a petro-power given the huge new oil finds off her coast. Give dos Santos time; we think he has the talent and the inclination to steal another $5 billion in the next few years, pushing him up the total and the per capital steps. Then we have Sani Abacha, the former President of Nigeria, who according to the FT�s data stole about $4 billion from that oil rich nation�s coffers. Abacha could have stolen more, but the population of Nigeria makes its life off of corruption, with some many levels of society stealing from itself the very top simply did have the opportunity to steal what it felt was rightfully its but there was less there to steal than Abacha thought he deserved. Given Nigeria�s huge population, Sani Abach�s �performance� in per capita terms is really verysmall. He stole �only� $30/person from his fellow Nigerians. We here are almost prepared to give him a Nobel Prize for his honesty in office, for certainly he could have stolen more if he really wanted too� but he died in office of a heart attack after only serving 5 years as the country President. Had he had the time in office that the Shah had, or that Saddam had, we are certainly Abacha could have achieved a new record. Sadly, we�ll never know; he was snatched away before his true kleoptocratic skills could be properly honed. Finally, we have Daniel Arap Moi, the President of Kenya who The FT figures stole �only� $3 billion while in office. This was, however, sufficiently large at just over $80/person to tie him for the 2nd least klepotcratic of those noted here this morning, tied with President and Mrs. Marcos. And where were these sums of money secreted too? Switzerland primarily of course, followed hard upon by the Isle of Man; Monaco; the Caymans; and several central and South American countries who have tried their hand at offering the world�s criminals safety and sanctuary.

Very long read I know but once you read it you will begin to see why the people in the region are so PISSED OFF at their leaders.

With secession happening in South Sudan, and protests already starting to crop up in Khartoum, keep an eye on Sudan.

Things are looking very very bad over there right now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov With secession happening in South Sudan, and protests already starting to crop up in Khartoum, keep an eye on Sudan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-afr..._medium=twitter

quote:

At least 13 people, including two children, have been killed in clashes between soldiers in the volatile south Sudan town of Malakal, doctors say. Battles broke out on Thursday between rival northern troops, some of whom want to stay in the south. Malakal has previously seen north-south clashes. The fighting comes as Southern Sudan is waiting for confirmation of the result of its independence referendum. Provisional results say 99% of voters opted to secede from the north. A local official said many more people may have been killed.

I find it rather astonishing that after one successful revolt in Tunisia, it has spread to so many other countries in the Middle East, including Iran and Libya. And yet no one seems to be making such a big deal about it in the US, although when you really think about it, it is sort of amazing.

that is all.

This could be bad...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast...dex.html?hpt=T2

quote:

Witnesses: Saudi forces fire on protesters, injure 3 Three people were taken to the hospital Thursday after Saudi security forces fired on scores of protesters in the city of Qatif, according to two witnesses and an activist. The protests took place one day ahead of a planned "Day of Rage" in the Middle Eastern country. Defying a Saudi government ban on all kinds of public demonstrations, more than 100 people in the predominantly Shiite city in eastern Saudi Arabia urged authorities to release Shiite prisoners, the witnesses and activist said. At some point, the witnesses said Saudi security forces shot to disperse the crowd. It was unknown if the forces fired rubber bullets or live ammunition. Those injured were taken to Qatif Central Hospital for treatment, the activist and witnesses said. The witnesses and activist asked not to be named because they feared reprisals. Ali Ahmed, the director of the Washington-based human rights advocacy group Institute for Gulf Affairs, who said he's been in touch with protesters, said a 16-year-old demonstrator was hurt in the hand, while an 18-year-old was injured in the foot. He claimed that a third unidentified person was more seriously hurt with injuries to the abdomen. Ahmed said he had contacted the U.S. State Department with his concerns about the Saudi security forces' actions. The previous day, a similar number of protesters took to the streets at Qatif. Human Rights First Society President Ibrahim Al-Mugaiteeb said that police kept a watchful eye, but did not intervene. A Saudi interior ministry spokesman did not respond to repeated calls to discuss the incident, and other Saudi officials likewise had no comment on the matter. Flanked by U.S. National Security Advisor Tom Donilon, Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategic Communications Ben Rhodes acknowledged that U.S. authorities were aware of reports that Saudi Arabian police had fired on protesters. "What we have said to the Saudis and to all the people of the region is that we're going to support a set of universal values in any country in the region," Rhodes said, adding that the message has been "articulated in public and in private" to the Saudi government. "And that includes the right to peaceful assembly, to peaceful protest, to peaceful speech." The incident Thursday came as a precursor to Friday's planned "day of rage" in Saudi Arabia, though longtime observers of the kingdom remained skeptical that it would make a major impact. "I don't think any protests that happen tomorrow will be destabilizing to the country," said Christopher Boucek, a Saudi expert with the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Prominent blogger Ahmed Al-Omran said the Saudi government remains unresponsive to people in the streets. "I don't think they're really in touch with the people," he said. Several of the recent protests -- including those in Qatif on Thursday -- have been driven by Shiite Muslims, who are a minority in the Sunni-dominated Arab kingdom. The unrest brewing in parts of the Middle East and North Africa has appeared to get Saudi leaders' attention, with King Abdullah announcing a series of sweeping measures late last month aimed at relieving economic hardship. That said, Saudi authorities have done little to change their tack against demonstrators, even authorizing security forces to "take all measures against anyone who tries to break the law and cause disorder." Last week, about 24 protesters were detained in Qatif, as they denounced "the prolonged detention" of nine Shiite prisoners held without trial for more than 14 years, Amnesty International said. Police kicked and beat three protesters with batons in what was an apparent peaceful demonstration, Amnesty said in a statement. "The Saudi Arabian authorities have a duty to ensure freedom of assembly and are obliged under international law to allow peaceful protests to take place," said Philip Luther, deputy director of the human rights group's Middle East and North Africa program. "They must act immediately to end this outrageous restriction on the right to legitimate protest." There was no immediate reaction from the Saudi government to the Amnesty statement. The protests in the majority Sunni kingdom have followed similar demands across the Arab world for more freedom and democracy. Rights activists have been advocating the right to protest for months in the kingdom, but they have been denied permission to assemble. Lately, grass-roots ferment mirroring the unrest across the Middle East and North Africa has emerged, with a Facebook group calling for days of rage and Shiites taking to the streets. Activists have been calling for reform and the release of people jailed without charge or trial. Amnesty said the recent detentions came a week after a prominent Shiite cleric, Sheikh Tawfiq Jaber Ibrahim al-'Amr, was arrested after a sermon calling for reforms in Saudi Arabia. He was released without charge Sunday. Most of the protesters are believed to be held in a police station in Dhahran, an eastern city. Among them are activists who have protested arrests and discrimination against the minority Shiites. "The Saudi authorities must investigate reports of beatings of protesters by security forces. They should also ensure that those detained are either charged with recognizable offenses and tried fairly or released," Luther said. "While in detention they must be protected from torture and other ill-treatment and given regular access to their family, lawyers and medical staff." The Shiite activists in "prolonged detention" have been held in connection with the deadly 1996 bombing of a U.S. military complex in Khobar, in which 20 people were killed and hundreds injured. "According to reports, they were interrogated, tortured and denied access to lawyers together with the opportunity to challenge the legality of their detention," Amnesty said.

I can not believe the Saudis in their right mind would think it is wise to fire upon protesters. Have they not learned anything from their neighboring countries? If it escalates there we could have ourselves another big oil crisis here.

Saudis pull a US and sends an occupational force into Bahrain

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...r_n_835734.html

quote:

(Reuters) - Saudi Arabia sent troops into Bahrain on Monday to help put down weeks of protests by the Shi'ite Muslim majority, a move opponents of the Sunni ruling family on the island called a declaration of war. Analysts saw the troop movement into Bahrain, home to the U.S. Navy's Fifth Fleet, as a mark of concern in Saudi Arabia that concessions by the country's monarchy could inspire the conservative Sunni kingdom's own Shi'ite minority. About 1,000 Saudi soldiers entered Bahrain to protect government facilities, a Saudi official source said, a day after mainly Shi'ite protesters overran police and blocked roads. "They are part of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) force that would guard the government installations," the source said, referring to the six-member bloc that coordinates military and economic policy in the world's top oil-exporting region. Bahrain said on Monday it had asked the Gulf troops for support in line with a GCC defense pact. The United Arab Emirates has said it would also respond to the call. Witnesses saw some 150 armored troop carriers, ambulances, water tankers and jeeps cross into Bahrain via the 25-km (16-mile) causeway and head toward Riffa, a Sunni area that is home to the royal family and military hospital. Bahrain TV later showed footage it said was of advance units of the joint regional Peninsula Shield forces that had arrived in Bahrain "due to the unfortunate events that are shaking the security of the kingdom and terrorizing citizens and residents." Analysts and diplomats say the largest contingent in any GCC force would come from Saudi Arabia, which is worried about any spillover to restive Shi'ites in its own Eastern Province, the center of its oil industry. Bahraini opposition groups including the largest Shi'ite party Wefaq said the move was an attack on defenseless citizens. "We consider the entry of any soldier or military machinery into the Kingdom of Bahrain's air, sea or land territories a blatant occupation," they said in a statement. "This real threat about the entry of Saudi and other Gulf forces into Bahrain to confront the defenseless Bahraini people puts the Bahraini people in real danger and threatens them with an undeclared war by armed troops." The move came after Bahraini police clashed on Sunday with mostly Shi'ite demonstrators in one of the most violent confrontations since troops killed seven protesters last month. After trying to push back demonstrators for several hours, police backed off and youths built barricades across the highway to the main financial district of the Gulf banking hub. Those barricades were still up on Monday, with protesters checking cars at the entrance to the Pearl roundabout, the focal point of weeks of protests. On the other side of the same highway, police set up a roadblock preventing any cars moving from the airport toward the financial area. In areas across Bahrain, vigilantes, some armed with sticks or wearing masks, guarded the entrances to their neighborhoods. In areas across Bahrain, vigilantes, some armed with sticks or wearing masks, guarded the entrances to their villages. Sectarian clashes broke out in Madinat Issa, witnesses said. "We will never leave. This is our country," said Abdullah, a protester, when asked if Saudi troops would stop them. "Why should we be afraid? We are not afraid in our country." SECTARIAN CONFLICT Bahrain has been gripped by its worst unrest since the 1990s after protesters took to the streets last month, inspired by uprisings that toppled the leaders of Egypt and Tunisia. Thousands are still camped out at the Pearl roundabout, having returned since the army cleared out the area last month. Washington has urged Bahrain to use restraint and repeated the call to other Gulf nations on Monday. "We urge our GCC partners to show restraint and respect the rights of the people of Bahrain, and to act in a way that supports dialogue," White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said. The cost of insuring Bahraini sovereign debt against default rose on Monday, nearing 20-month highs after Saudi intervention. Any intervention by Gulf Arab troops in Bahrain is highly sensitive on the island, where the Shi'ite Muslim majority complains of discrimination by the Sunni Muslim royal family. Most Gulf Arab ruling families are Sunni and intervention might encourage a response from non-Arab Iran, the main Shi'ite power in the region. Accusations already abound of Iranian backing for Shi'ite activists in Bahrain -- charges they deny. "The Bahraini unrest could potentially turn into regional sectarian violence that goes beyond the borders of the particular states concerned," said Ghanem Nuseibeh, partner at consultancy Cornerstone Global. Iran urged Bahrain not to allow foreign interference and urged the government not to use force against protesters. "Using other countries' military forces to oppress these demands is not the solution," Foreign Ministry official Hossein Amir Abdollahian told the semi-official Fars news agency. In a sign that the opposition and the royals may find an 11th-hour solution, the opposition groups said they had met the crown prince to discuss the mechanism for national dialogue. Crown Prince Sheikh Salman al-Khalifa offered assurances on Sunday that talks would address key opposition demands including parliamentary, electoral and government reforms. Even if talks are successful however, the opposition is increasingly split and hardline groups may keep up protests. Wefaq is calling for a new government and a constitutional monarchy that vests the judicial, executive and legislative authority with the people. A coalition of much smaller Shi'ite parties are calling for the overthrow of the monarchy -- demands that scare Sunnis who fear this would benefit Iran.

So they think just because they beat their own protesters that they will nullify Bahrain's? We shall see...

OMG



Different Bahraini protester

!!

that video was extremely disturbing - i must have watched it like 5 times to make sure that was real.

quite horrible whats going on.

and the entire protest is spreading all over africa and middle east. Algeria has been protesting along side Tunisia now, its like a viral spread of protest has erupted over the continent.

I just hope they can resolve it with a new government, and hopefully without any more deaths like those.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact...protests#France

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E...Africa_protests


theres atleast 40 or so different countries that are now protesting as a result of what happened in tunisia and egypt.

quote:

Originally posted by Igneous01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact...protests#France

quote:

President Barack Obama, Defense Secretary Bob Gates, CIA Director Leon Panetta, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and other high ranking officials and government agencies were caught by surprise over the uprisings, accused of presiding over a massive intelligence failure and being caught "flat footed."[66][67][68] Panetta, Deputy Secretary of State Jim Steinberg,[69] Director of Intelligence James Clapper,[70] and FBI Director Robert Mueller appeared before the 112th Congress's first House Permanent Select Committee of Intelligence hearing to testify about Egypt and related failures.

Why am I not surprised? One of the most significant events to happen in this decade, possibly this whole century even, and not even a speech about it by our dear leader. Oh well, guess he's too busy enjoying the NCAA championships.

We're gonnna tear down that monument now. That'll show those damn protesters!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...t_n_837799.html

quote:

Bahrain on Friday tore down the 300-foot (90-meter) monument at the heart of a square purged of Shiite protesters this week, erasing a symbol of an uprising that's inflaming sectarian tensions across the region. The monument � six white curved beams topped with a huge cement pearl � was built in Pearl Square as a tribute to the Sunni-ruled kingdom's history as a pearl-diving center. It became the backdrop to the Shiite majority's uprising after protesters set up a month-long camp at Pearl Square in the capital, Manama. Security forces overran the camp on Wednesday, setting off clashes that killed at least five people, including two policemen. At least 12 people have been killed in the month-long revolt. Bahrain's foreign minister, Khalid bin Ahmed Al Khalifa, told reporters in Manama that the army brought down the monument because "it was a bad memory." "We are not waging war, we are restoring law and order," Khalid said at a press conference in Manama. Shiite anger rose sharply around the Mideast on Friday as large crowds in Iran and Iraq cursed Bahrain's Sunni monarchy and its Saudi backers over the violent crackdown on protesters demanding more rights. Amateur video footage of security forces shooting and beating protesters has spread across the internet and fueled fury in predominantly Shiite Iraq and in Iran, where a senior cleric on Friday urged Bahraini protesters to keep going until victory or death. Thousands of Bahrainis gathered for the funeral of Ahmed Farhan, a 29-year-old demonstrator slain Tuesday in the town of Sitra hours after the king declared martial law in response to a month of escalating protests. Sitra, the hub of Bahrain's oil industry, has been the site of the worst confrontations. A funeral for Abdul-Jaffer Mohammed Abdul-Ali, 40, took place in the village of Karranah, west of the capital. His brother Abdul-Ali Mohammed told The Associated Press that Abdel-Jaffer was killed on Wednesday morning on his way to Pearl Square to reinforce the protesters' lines during the military assault on the encampment. Story continues below Advertisement "My brother was not a political man, but he participated in the protest every day to have a better future for his four children," Abdul-Ali said. "When he heard the Pearl Square was under attack, he went there," he added. "Our country is under siege and he wanted to help liberate it." Shiites account for 70 percent of the tiny island's half-million people but they are widely excluded from high-level posts and positions in the police and military of the country, whic is home to the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet. "Brothers and sisters" in Bahrain should "resist against the enemy until you die or win," Iranian Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati told worshippers at Friday prayers at Tehran University, a nationally televised forum seen as expressing the views of Iran's ruling Shiite clergy. Worshippers chanted angry slogans against Saudi Arabia's royal family, which has sent troops to back Bahrain's king. "There is no God but Allah, Al Saud is God's enemy," some chanted in Arabic. One Persian banner read, "Death to Al Saud." Across Iraq, thousands rallied in mostly Shiite cities in the country's largest demonstrations since a wave of dissent spread across the Middle East in the wake of Tunisia's overthrow of its autocratic president. Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani � Iraqi-based Shiism's highest ranking cleric in the Mideast � suspended teachings at religious schools across Iraq on Friday in a show of solidarity with the protesters. A representative of al-Sistani warned during his Friday sermon in the holy city of Karbala that the brutal images of what is happening in Bahrain will inflame passions and lead to sectarian problems in the region. Bahrain's rulers invited armies from other Sunni-ruled Gulf countries this week to help root out dissent as the month of protests spiraled into widespread calls for an end to the Sunni monarchy. In declaring emergency rule, the king gave the military wide powers to battle the uprising. There are no apparent links between Iran and Bahrain's Shiite opposition but the U.S. and Sunni leaders in the Persian Gulf leaders have expressed concern that Iran could use the unrest in Bahrain to expand its influence in the region. Iran has recalled its ambassador from Bahrain to protest the crackdown. The United States bases the 5th Fleet in Bahrain partly to counter Iran's military reach around the region.

And Pakistan not to be outdone...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/18/pakistan-us-afghanistan-_n_837549.html

quote:

ISLAMABAD -- Pakistan pulled out of talks this month with the United States on the future of Afghanistan in protest of an especially deadly American missile attack, the government said Friday, in a sign of rising tensions between the two uneasy allies. Pakistan's powerful army chief has already criticized Thursday's missile attack on a house close to the Afghan border in a rare personal statement. Intelligence officials say around 36 people � most of them civilians � were killed. A U.S. official familiar with details denied that innocent people were targeted and suggested all the dead were militants or sympathizers. The relationship was already fraught over the case of an American CIA contractor who shot and killed two Pakistanis but was freed on Wednesday, putting the weak government on the defensive against critics who accused it of selling out to the Americans. The missile attack added to the heat on the government, which summoned U.S. Ambassador Cameron Munter to protest. "It is evident that the fundamentals of our relations need to be revisited," the Foreign Ministry said in a statement that did not mention how many civilians were killed. "Pakistan should not be taken for granted nor treated as a client state." The statement said Pakistan would not attend talks proposed by the United States in Brussels on March 26. Pakistan had been scheduled to send its deputy foreign minister to the meeting, which was also to include a delegation from Afghanistan, it said. The U.S. Embassy declined to comment because it was not aware any meeting had been proposed. An earlier round of the trilateral talks was canceled by the United States in February, apparently in protest of the detention of Raymond Allen Davis, the contractor. America routinely fires missiles against al-Qaida and Taliban targets close to the Afghan border, and U.S. officials say privately Pakistan assists in some of the strikes. But the program is publicly opposed by Pakistan's government and army because it believes admitting collaborating with America in attacks on its own people would be highly damaging politically. Davis shot and killed two Pakistanis on Jan. 27 in the eastern city of Lahore and was arrested at the scene. Washington claimed Davis acted in self-defense and had diplomatic immunity, but Pakistan's government did not accept this. He was released from prison as part of a court deal in which the victims' relatives received $2.3 million in compensation. Both countries agreed on the "blood money" deal because it meant they could plausibly deny any responsibility for his release. Washington was never likely to allow a CIA contractor to stand trial in Pakistan, while Pakistan's economy is kept afloat with money from America and the International Monetary Fund, meaning Islamabad could not afford to sever its ties with Washington over the affair despite domestic pressure to put him on trial. There were small demonstrations Friday against the release of Davis in several towns and cities across Pakistan. The national government in Islamabad and the opposition-led local administration in Lahore have been blasted in the media over the deal. Pakistan's powerful army and the intelligence agencies, which are rarely publicly criticized, have also been attacked. Few believe that releasing Davis would have been possible without their permission and involvement. Responding to the criticism, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said the country had agreed that the Davis case would be decided in the courts. "It is therefore inappropriate to hold any single institution responsible for the final outcome of the case," he said.

And now the American and Canadian government are attacking libya to help overthrow gadaffi now?

quote:

Originally posted by Ammar.Hasan And now the American and Canadian government are attacking libya to help overthrow gadaffi now?

Yes, and glad they're doing it. As for Afghanistan, I for one, want us to get the fuck out. If they want to blow themselves up, let them. Just don't have our soldiers there stoking the flames of their own (and ours by participation) destruction.

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