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Are you doing your own mixing and mastering?

I was just wonder how many of you guys feel really comfortable enough to perform mixing and mastering on your own track yourself?

I know at least few of tranceaddics who should be able/could go this route but is this a right approach? or we should always have somebody who perfect this mixing-mastering skill over the time doing this for us (like another set of ears).

So what is the right way for you specific?

Cheers,

Darek

I mix by myself. The mix is not something abstract. Is an essential part that can define a track. It adds a specific stamp and color. The mix is an extension of yourself, that's why it shouldn't be overlooked.

Regarding mastering: I am trying to learn, but I realize, with it, I'm shifting too much from my role as a creator. That's the part I wouldn't mind assigning to a professional.

I do my own mixing. I also do my own finalizing, but I wouldn't really call it mastering, per se. That said, we're finishing up an album and my plan is to take the stems for our songs to my friend's studio (a professional mastering engineer) for the final mixdown and mastering. I don't want to try tackling that myself, not for a whole album.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceElevation I mix by myself. The mix is not something abstract. Is an essential part that can define a track. It adds a specific stamp and color. The mix is an extension of yourself, that's why it shouldn't be overlooked. Regarding mastering: I am trying to learn, but I realize, with it, I'm shifting too much from my role as a creator. That's the part I wouldn't mind assigning to a professional.

Sounds like you are completely comfortable doing mixing job by yourself and not going to let anybody else touch it, I also understand that this part of production process is an important element of music creation sequence as on the end of the day this ultimately controls direction and the final vision for track.

Sounds good to me, let's hear what other have to say, appreciate

Darek

I do all mixing and mastering myself.
And in my own experience and opinion I think it is extremely important. I have released a bunch of songs. And the truth is that if you want to release a song on a record label. It is better to have a crappy song that is perfectly mixed and mastered. Then a great song that is poorly mixed and mastered. And I will even go as far as saying that this is a FACT. And I know a bunch of record labels that will tell you exactly the same thing.

But when we talk about mastering, it should be pointed out what we are talking about. Because frankly most people have a totally wrong idea of what it actually is. When you master a track then you are actually improving what you already have. And I mean this very literally. Because if your song is mixed/EQ perfectly then you won't need to do much mastering. Just a simple limiter to boost the song.
And frankly, this is what most record labels want. Because the more they need to work on your track. the less respect they will have for you as a producer. And believe me. Most record labels really won't border to invest so much time (if any) on doing a lot of mastering.

And just to show that I know what I am talking. My last release under my Techno alias Audio Mill was on Record label Traum. What is one of the most respected Techno labels in the world. And the song was put on there famous Tour the Traum album. And I had some Trance releases under the name R-Jen on Trance record label Niika Music Entertainment(formally known as Club Nation what is also a famous record label)

And I can tell you that both record labels hardly did any drastic changes in mastering. The truth is that anybody can make a EDM song. But to make it sound great in terms of mixing and mastering. That is where most skills are needed. And this is really the thing that takes most time to master. (ironic word to use, master :P )

My advice is. When in doubt. Listen to great producers with great tracks. Compare this with your song. Because that is where your aim should be to accomplish. I also recommend to just put a limiter on the master with a gain reduction around -4DB I read stories of people saying that you should not limit or compress your song because the record label needs headroom to work with. But I never had that request of any record label.

Hear you can hear songs that I released.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?li...whg73dxRdRzCEoS

I can tell you that of all these songs. The where only two where I could actually hear that there where some changes being made by the record label after they released it. (and this means some subtile EQ changes) And that was on the following songs: Some kind of Hurricane, and Warhol Symphony. Other then that. what you hear was mostly done by myself.

But please note!! That is my own experience and my own opinion. Maybe some people have different experiences with other record labels. But the truth is. If a record label needs to do a lot of work on your song to improve the sound. Then this just says something about your skills as a producer. Besides, if you consider how many demo's record labels receive. Then why would they choose a song that is poorly mixed and mastered. If they have 30 other demos that already sounds perfect. And if they don't have so many other demo's to choose from. Meaning that they are forced to invest the time to (greatly) improve your song. That also says something about the reputation of the record label.

quote:

Originally posted by Rjen And in my own experience and opinion...the truth is..this is a FACT. ...The truth is...My advice is...But please note!! That is my own experience and my own opinion...But the truth is...

...that you don't know the difference between an opinion and a fact?

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik ...that you don't know the difference between an opinion and a fact?

ok ok you got me there. Later I realised that I am on a forum. and before people start yelling at me. I figured, it would be better to be a bit more careful.

And what do you know? I get criticism for that
haha just kidding.

But in all honesty. Yes I think its fact.
But uhmmm that's my opinion :P

quote:

Originally posted by Rjen I do all mixing and mastering myself. And in my own experience and opinion I think it is extremely important. I have released a bunch of songs. And the truth is that if you want to release a song on a record label. It is better to have a crappy song that is perfectly mixed and mastered. Then a great song that is poorly mixed and mastered. And I will even go as far as saying that this is a FACT. And I know a bunch of record labels that will tell you exactly the same thing. But when we talk about mastering, it should be pointed out what we are talking about. Because frankly most people have a totally wrong idea of what it actually is. When you master a track then you are actually improving what you already have. And I mean this very literally. Because if your song is mixed/EQ perfectly then you won't need to do much mastering. Just a simple limiter to boost the song. And frankly, this is what most record labels want. Because the more they need to work on your track. the less respect they will have for you as a producer. And believe me. Most record labels really won't border to invest so much time (if any) on doing a lot of mastering. And just to show that I know what I am talking. My last release under my Techno alias Audio Mill was on Record label Traum. What is one of the most respected Techno labels in the world. And the song was put on there famous Tour the Traum album. And I had some Trance releases under the name R-Jen on Trance record label Niika Music Entertainment(formally known as Club Nation what is also a famous record label) And I can tell you that both record labels hardly did any drastic changes in mastering. The truth is that anybody can make a EDM song. But to make it sound great in terms of mixing and mastering. That is where most skills are needed. And this is really the thing that takes most time to master. (ironic word to use, master :P ) My advice is. When in doubt. Listen to great producers with great tracks. Compare this with your song. Because that is where your aim should be to accomplish. I also recommend to just put a limiter on the master with a gain reduction around -4DB I read stories of people saying that you should not limit or compress your song because the record label needs headroom to work with. But I never had that request of any record label. Hear you can hear songs that I released. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?li...whg73dxRdRzCEoS I can tell you that of all these songs. The where only two where I could actually hear that there where some changes being made by the record label after they released it. (and this means some subtile EQ changes) And that was on the following songs: Some kind of Hurricane, and Warhol Symphony. Other then that. what you hear was mostly done by myself. But please note!! That is my own experience and my own opinion. Maybe some people have different experiences with other record labels. But the truth is. If a record label needs to do a lot of work on your song to improve the sound. Then this just says something about your skills as a producer. Besides, if you consider how many demo's record labels receive. Then why would they choose a song that is poorly mixed and mastered. If they have 30 other demos that already sounds perfect. And if they don't have so many other demo's to choose from. Meaning that they are forced to invest the time to (greatly) improve your song. That also says something about the reputation of the record label.

This is really cool that you are sharing your experience with us over here man and sounds like you already know the way most of those labels around operate by lol - it is all about money

You would be surprise of the level of mixing/mastering knowledge some of our member poses in this forum and this is the reason why I created this thread -> to pull some of that knowledge out of them

Thank you guys for being involve in this very important subject of music production

Cheers,

Darek

quote:

Originally posted by TranceElevation I mix by myself. The mix is not something abstract. Is an essential part that can define a track. It adds a specific stamp and color. The mix is an extension of yourself, that's why it shouldn't be overlooked. Regarding mastering: I am trying to learn, but I realize, with it, I'm shifting too much from my role as a creator. That's the part I wouldn't mind assigning to a professional.

This. If you're having someone else doing the mixing, then all you're really doing is creating patterns, not productions.

I know nothing about mastering, and I doubt I'll ever put in the time and effort to learn. If someone wants to release your stuff, they generally get it mastered, anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Rjen ...the truth is that if you want to release a song on a record label. It is better to have a crappy song that is perfectly mixed and mastered. Then a great song that is poorly mixed and mastered.

This is somewhat true, but then again, there are lots of seemingly well-mastered tracks that don't get released simply because they don't bring anything new/interesting to the scene.

I think the most important thing is that your track is well-mixed and sounds somewhat interesting. I've released stuff that was impossible/very difficult to master because of excessive distortion, but if it sounds decent and can be mixed in a set, it might still get released.

So far TranceElevation, AlphaStarred are doing their own mixing with Dave and Rjen taking it one more step ahead - thanks you guys

Darek

quote:

Originally posted by Rjen ok ok you got me there. Later I realised that I am on a forum. and before people start yelling at me. I figured, it would be better to be a bit more careful. And what do you know? I get criticism for that haha just kidding. But in all honesty. Yes I think its fact. But uhmmm that's my opinion :P

I'm just messing with you, dude.

I do my own mixing and I simple master stuff, but I always send labels unmastered copies.

I don't think many electronic producers use outside mixers, it's mostly done while producing. It's not like rock where you do the mixing after recording, so most people use professional mixers.

As for mastering, I have done that on some tracks, but nowadays I'd rather have that done by a pro if/when the time comes.

quote:

Originally posted by Rjen It is better to have a crappy song that is perfectly mixed and mastered. Then a great song that is poorly mixed and mastered.

Personally speaking I agree with this but of course if you can combine original good memorable content with good mixing then that's the best of all outcomes. Loads of well mixed releases are throwaway and non memorable derivatives.

Your second track down 'Some sort of hurricane' is a real pleasure on the ears and I love that little mid bass sustained wobble in the background, that sort of sound is what makes a techno track good.

I sort of sensed already that labels want a finished article and not tooing and froing with an artist, but reading your narrative here brings this into sharp focus for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Rjen It is better to have a crappy song that is perfectly mixed and mastered. Then a great song that is poorly mixed and mastered. And I will even go as far as saying that this is a FACT. And I know a bunch of record labels that will tell you exactly the same thing.

This is exactly why trance sucks now.

double post

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery This is exactly why trance sucks now.

Could you elaborate please.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceElevation Could you elaborate please.

Seriously?

Everybody just wants their mix to sound great and nobody concentrates on the actual songwriting, since apparently that is what the labels actually prefer. Cue thousands of tracks that are mixed and mastered perfectly, yet you forget them as soon as they are over.

I would take a badly mastered masterpiece over pristine sounding turd any day.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Seriously? Everybody just wants their mix to sound great and nobody concentrates on the actual songwriting, since apparently that is what the labels actually prefer. Cue thousands of tracks that are mixed and mastered perfectly, yet you forget them as soon as they are over. I would take a badly mastered masterpiece over pristine sounding turd any day.

I guess then we live in different worlds cause I don't see these perfectly mixed and mastered tracks nowhere!

By today's standards "perfect" seems to mean "loud as fuck" to most producers.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery This is exactly why trance sucks now.

Nail on the fucking head - and its not just trance, its most dance music.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceElevation I guess then we live in different worlds cause I don't see these perfectly mixed and mastered tracks nowhere!

OK, but that's a slightly different argument. The point is, all these producers spending an inordinate amount of time trying (not necessarily achieving) to get the perfect mix, at the expense of crafting an actual song is why the market is flooded with so many forgettable tracks.

For mastering 3 things are important:
1. Quality Room
2. Quality Conversion & Monitoring
3. Skills.

Your mileage may vary.
BTW mastering IS NOT putting on a comp, add some EQ and squeeze it into a limiter until it sounds "phat" in your bedroom or headphones.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik OK, but that's a slightly different argument. The point is, all these producers spending an inordinate amount of time trying (not necessarily achieving) to get the perfect mix, at the expense of crafting an actual song is why the market is flooded with so many forgettable tracks.

Sorry but I disagree. Trance sucks nowadays and I know it, but imo the reasons are far worst than what you're advancing here.
Spending time on improving your mix might suggest perfectionism, which isn't a bad thing at all. The perfectionist pushes the boundaries, is very self-critical and has very ambitious goals. These guys are everything but perfectionists.

These "new" producers simply have no ideas. They're not creative, and a little bit dumb frankly. As mentioned in my "Uplifting Trance Nowadays", most of these people became producers dreaming to achieve the sound of that "x" producer they fell in love with. In other words they are followers, not leaders.

Regarding strictly the mixing aspect: mixes totally suck. These people don't understand that a mix should be appropriate for the song. They think everything has to be loud, which as a consequence makes everything bright, so much that it becomes painful to listen to. 9/10 trance track nowadays clip. Is not about over-compression, is about bad compression. You can compress everything in your mix and still make it sound exciting and actually enhance the dynamics IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. They do not know what they're doing. They are dumb and thick headed. And that fucking side-chain, why do they think it is mandatory on every damn element?

In conclusion, what I mean is: these people don't spent time at all. It is much more probable they use presets, which would explain why every trance track sounds exactly the same.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceElevation Sorry but I disagree. Trance sucks nowadays and I know it, but imo the reasons are far worst than what you're advancing here....

Well, that may all be true as well and maybe it's a combination of no skill, no creativity, and not enough effort - I honestly don't listen to enough trance to even know what people are putting out there these days. All Mr. Mystery and a few of us are saying is that same old cliche that still holds true: you can't polish a turd.

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