1. Here�s some background information (mostly from San Francisco nightclubs, the study was done in 2000, and the full article can be found at http://www.hearnet.com/features/art...e_EdWclub.shtml .

The Bay Area Reporter newspaper tested the decibel levels of a dozen of The City's clubs and found their noise levels so extreme, they not only violate your hearing, they violate the law. The paper's survey found the loudest club in San Francisco, the Sound Factory, was also its most popular. It belted out music as high as 115 decibels. That's louder than sandblasting. According to the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), you should limit your time in the Sound Factory to 4 minutes and 43 seconds. All the clubs surveyed were in violation of the California Occupational Safety and Health Administration's (CAL-OSHA) laws governing noise in the workplace. CAL-OSHA told the Bay Area Reporter it doesn't have the resources to routinely monitor the clubs. Some of the clubs surveyed were so loud, NIOSH says its workers should wear both earplugs and earmuffs. There are virtually no regulations in place to protect the clubs' customers from noise.

The survey found clubgoers are routinely exposed to levels that could result in non-reversible hearing loss, permanent ringing in the ear (tinnitus), or a condition called hyperacusis which paradoxically causes the afflicted to be overly sensitive to noise. The loudest club in the study was not a gay club but the very popular and Sound Factory, which advertises in its flyers: "You'll hear it ... before you see it!" The SOMA club at the foot of the Bay Bridge more than lived up to its billing with music pounding out of its speakers at 115 decibels (dB). The Federal government says levels over 85 dB are dangerous. A vacuum cleaner runs about 70 dB, a jackhammer at 100 dB, and sandblasting about 110 dB. Each increase of 10 decibels represents a doubling of the perceived sound. So the Sound Factory's peak of 115 dB is significantly louder than sandblasting. If a hostile government conspired to destroy the hearing of America's young people, it would be hard pressed to come up with a better formula than the typical dance club.

For Mikel Scott, ringing in the ears after leaving a dance club was not temporary. Scott, 36, is a New York-based flight attendant who frequents San Francisco gay dance clubs on his weekly stopovers. For the past six years, Scott has suffered from tinnitus. The ringing in his ears never stops. "It's constant," says Scott. "It's the worst when it's quiet because all I can hear is the ringing." Scott says he got tinnitus one evening after dancing too close to the speakers at an Atlanta dance club. "My ears were ringing when I left the club that night and it's never stopped"

Kanani Cruz, 34, says she used to go to clubs at least once a week. Now she goes about three times a month. Cruz says the noise is so extreme that she "can't hear shit" when she leaves often gets headaches and ringing in the ears following her club attendance.

Julie Macias, 28, attributes a steady loss in her hearing to regular clubgoing. "When I leave the clubs, my ears ring all night till the morning," says Macias. "I've had to wear a special headset at work to boost the sound so I can hear the callers and I've learned to lip read."

One night in particular I was DJing in a club where the sound system was particularly loud, that night I went home with a ringing sensation so bad that it took my ears several days to get back to normal. In one ear, the ringing has never completely stopped. Nowadays I am very sensitive to loud music (particularly high / treble frequencies) and the mild tinnitus I have normally increases dramatically if I expose myself to loud music. This can cause some problems for me as I work in a recording studio. I very rarely DJ these days, but if I do I am careful to wear earplugs. I would like to see more responsibility placed on nightclub owners and sound equipment manufacturers/installers to ensure that sound systems are designed and set up to minimize the risk of hearing damage to clubbers. Simon (24) is from Cheshire and works as a sound designer and composer (www.dontlosethemusic.com)

Alice's story.... Since I was 16 I have been going out almost every Friday and Saturday night. The music in the clubs I used to go to in Sheffield was really loud so loud in fact that you couldnt hear people talking (or shouting) above the music. The first time I went out, I remember going home in a taxi and not being able to hear properly. Over time this got worse, so that my hearing wouldnt return to normal for a couple of days. Now I'm 20 I have a permanent mild hearing loss and a mild ringing sensation in my ears all the time. Surely the musicians and bands want us to be able to enjoy the music both now and in the future? If thats the case they should tell the fans how best to protect their hearing in the long term. (www.dontlosethemusic.com)

Kathy Peck, CO-founder of the San Francisco based "Hearing Education and Awareness for Rockers" targets her educational efforts towards young people who think hearing loss is something that happens much later in life. "It needs to be taken seriously, too many people think that hearing loss is old age, and it's not." She was recently contacted by an audiologist from Alaska concerned about children who suffered hearing loss from blasting the volume on their portable stereo headphones. The audiologist was worried because the children couldn't hear bears walking in the snow. "They were afraid their lives were threatened," says Peck. A University of Florida study backed up that concern. It found that 17% of adolescents are already suffering from some degree of hearing loss.

Pete Avila, 34, is a DJ with 14 years experience spinning in the Bay Area and is one of the country's most influential and innovative DJs. He has the classic symptoms of noise-induced hearing loss. Avila has difficulty hearing conversations when there's background noise. "When there's a busy restaurant with a lot of noise, it's hard for me to hear someone who's sitting right across from me," he says. He sometimes misunderstands words and has to turn up the TV louder than most people. Avila wears earplugs when he's on the dance floor but not while he's working. "It's difficult, because when you are in the club situation and in the moment, you sort of want the music loud to feel what people are feeling on the dance floor," he says. Avila was music director at the Sound Factory for four years and concedes "it took a toll on my ears." Over the years, Avila has worked at virtually every dance club in San Francisco. He says no club owner ever expressed concern about the hearing health of its workers or patrons.

"The deejays suffer incredibly," says San Francisco dance music producer Tyler Stone. "I've worked in the studio with a lot of deejays and these people need to really crank the volume to levels that are unbelievable to me." There's "incredible denial" about the problem, Stone said. "Quite honestly, I don't think there's any awareness in the club scene.�

The Royal National Institute for Deaf People (RNID) recently launched a club noise awareness campaign in Great Britain after a RNID survey found that 62% of regular clubbers have symptoms of hearing loss. RNID reports that the numbers of young people exposed to dangerous noise levels has tripled since the early 80's. It also found that tinnitus rates among young people have increased three fold during that same time period. "We are roller-coasting towards an epidemic of hearing loss in middle rather than older age," says RHID's Chief Executive James Strachan.

Why don't the clubs turn the volume down? Club owners say they are giving you what you want. If you think it's too loud, let them know. It's a free country, no one's forcing anyone to go in the clubs, if people want to listen to music that loud and employees want to work in clubs around music so loud, why should anyone tell them they can't? Labor laws don't allow employers to subject employees to unnecessary and dangerous environmental conditions, period. As a business customer, you are protected from just about every other environmental risk. For example, a business is required to provide enough fire exits and adequate ventilation. One exception is noise. A business can legally provide an environment that could permanently destroy your hearing. Your only recourse is a civil lawsuit but since most hearing loss is insidious, you would have a hard time proving the source of your hearing damage. I've been going to the clubs for years without earplugs and my hearing is fine, if I was susceptible to hearing damage wouldn't I have noticed the effects by now? No, we're all susceptible to hearing loss. By the time you've noticed you've lost it, it's too late. You can prevent further damage but you'll never regain what's lost. And keep in mind, many people have developed tinitus (permanent ringing in the ears) or hyperacusis (being overly sensitive to noise) after just one exposure to very loud noise.

Decibel Exposure Time Guidelines
Accepted standards for recommended permissible exposure time for continuous time weighted average noise, according to NIOSH and CDC, 2002. For every 3 dBs over 85dBA (A weighting), the permissible exposure time before possible damage can occur is cut in half.
Continuous dB Permissible Exposure Time
85 db 8 hours
88 dB 4 hours
91 db 2 hours
94 db 1 hour
97 db 30 minutes
100 db 15 minutes
103 db 7.5 minutes
106 dB 3.75 min (< 4min)
109 dB 1.875 min (< 2min)
112 dB .9375 min (~1 min)
115 dB .46875 min (~30 sec)

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Last edited by in2muzikk on Jul-28-2014 at 05:04

2. International Resources:

Hearing Education and Awareness for Rockers:

http://www.hearnet.com

A wealth of information about how to protect your hearing.



Action on Hearing Loss:

http://www.actiononhearingloss.org.uk/

Information about hearing protection, brought to you by UK�s RNID (The Royal National Institute for Deaf People)



Dangerous Decibels: http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/hearingloss.cfm

A public health partnership for prevention of noise-induced hearing loss (also includes decibel exposure time guidelines)



Etymotic Research, Inc. http://www.etymotic.com/

Etymotic sells isolator earphones for iPods, they seal out surrounding noise so the sound comes through clearer & cleaner at lower volumes.



Westone Laboratories, Inc. http://www.westone.com/

W estone Laboratories, Inc. is widely recognized as the worldwide leader in the design & manufacturing of custom earmolds for hearing healthcare and other applications. In addition to carrying thousands of products for use by professionals and their patients, Westone is also a source of technical counsel, ideas, and assistance.


Earplug Store http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/

The Earplug store sells thousands of earplugs, and also sells custom Musician�s Earplugs (you can send them impressions from an audiologist, or they also have a do-it-yourself kit by mail)

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Last edited by in2muzikk on Jul-27-2014 at 01:30

3. Local (West Coast) Resources:

California Dept. of Industrial Relations

http://www.dir.ca.gov/Title8/5097.html
http://www.dir.ca.gov/Title8/5098.html

California requirements for controlling noise exposure (for club employees)



Audiologists/Custom Earplug Vendors:

ACS Custom USA � San Fransisco (Manufacturing, Sales, Service & 3D Ear Scanning)
855 Stanton Road #300
Burlingame, CA,
94010

ACS Custom USA � New York (Sales, Service & 3D Ear Scanning)
@ SIR Studios
520 W 25th Street
New York, NY
10001

ACS Custom USA � Los Angeles (Sales & Service)
1616 Vista Del Mar
Los Angeles, CA
90028

Office hours are 9am to 6pm in each location Monday � Friday

Tel : 646 559 5642
email : usinfo(at)acscustom.com


Tracy Family Hearing Center
Cydney Fox

2300 S. Flower Street, Ste 304 Los Angeles, CA 90007
Phone: (213) 742-1341 Fax: (213) 742-6537 [email protected]

Custom Earmolds, Hearing Protection Devices , Swim Plugs, Music Products, Communication Products, Accessories/Supplies



The Towers Audiology Center
Sharon MacDuffee
8631 W. Third Street, #312E Los Angeles, CA 90048
Phone: (310) 652-4327 Fax: (310) 652-7900

Custom Earmolds, Hearing Protection Devices , Swim Plugs, Music Products, Communication Products, Accessories/Supplies



House Ear Clinic http://www.houseearclinic.com/
2100 West 3rd Street
Los Angeles, CA 90057
(213) 483-9930



The Hearing Doctor
http://www.thehearingdoctor.com/


8920 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 404
Beverly Hills, CA 90211
310.659.1212

9702 Venice Blvd., #A
Culver City, CA 90232
310.559.4884

19100 Ventura Blvd. #16
Tarzana, CA 91356
818.609.1331


HearUSA
A nationwide network of audiology centers, that perform hearing tests, make custom earplugs and more. Click the link above to find one near you.

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Last edited by in2muzikk on Oct-14-2016 at 20:56

i support a coalition of EDM in sign language! that's what i'm talking about. Frankie Wilde baby!

Hearing loss is a very serious concern. Once you lose a little hearing, thats it. It's gone forever.

Usually your HMO should provide audiology tests but if you don't have insurance you need to get at least one, especially if you haven't had one for a few years. It's worth the money. If you could prove hearing loss as a result of unsafe noise conditions with a before and after audiology test, there is bound to be a settlement waiting for you.

Clubs aren't THAT loud, they are only at dangerous levels in the middle of the dance floor, between all the speakers. Up front by the DJ booth is usually less loud than just a few yards back.

quote:

Originally posted by camsr Hearing loss is a very serious concern. Once you lose a little hearing, thats it. It's gone forever. Usually your HMO should provide audiology tests but if you don't have insurance you need to get at least one, especially if you haven't had one for a few years. It's worth the money. If you could prove hearing loss as a result of unsafe noise conditions with a before and after audiology test, there is bound to be a settlement waiting for you. Clubs aren't THAT loud, they are only at dangerous levels in the middle of the dance floor, between all the speakers. Up front by the DJ booth is usually less loud than just a few yards back.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I couldn't disagree more.

If you're still one of the lucky small % of Americans with health insurance (and even if you're not), then an audiology test is well worth the money if there's any concern at all. I went last Thursday and got a complete hearing test for a $10 copay. Turns out that my hearing is within the normal range, and I even hear low frequency sounds that a lot of people don't.

The whole process was really easy, took about 20 mins., and now I have a "baseline" hearing level that can be measured against in the future. The weird thing is that I still have a constant ringing in my left ear, though it's really high pitched and not too noticeable unless it's really quiet. It could a warning sign and may take a few years to develop into hearing loss, or maybe it will go away or just stay the same.

Anyway, at least I know that my hearing is o.k. today. I've always worn earplugs, but another thing my doctor discovered before referring me to the audiologist was that my ears were blocked about 80% on both sides with wax. Because of this, I wasn't able to get my earplugs in deeply enough and probably wasn't getting full protection either. My audiologist recommended getting a hearing test every 2 years, and having wax buildup checked once a year.

As for getting a settlement, It's really unlikely that anyone could prove the source of their hearing loss, unless they had a hearing test, went to one club and sat in a glass room with no sound for the next five years, then had another hearing test. Coulda happened from the dynamite blast scene in that movie, someone who screamed into your ear, airplane noise, or a club...but which club, if you're like me, you've been to a few...I'd say that the chance of getting a big settlement is about .0000001%, or maybe a little less!

As for "clubs aren't THAT loud," let's break this one down:

Some may be, some are not. There's not an easy way to tell, unless a person starts having hearing problems first (and I didn't say "lose their hearing" because that's not always what happens, some may get maddening ringing in the ears, hypersensitivity to normal sounds, hearing loss, or some combination of these). It would help to get measurements of the SPL (sound pressure levels) at our nightclubs so we could make more informed decisions.

Per the Bay Area Reporter (read up), the Sound Factory in SF measured at 115db in year 2000, which is dangerous after 4 minutes and 43 seconds with no hearing protection.

With Etymotic ER-20's in your ears



you get up to 20db reduction, so 115-20= 95db. From the decibel exposure time guideline chart (see top of page), now the sound is dangerous after somewhere between 30 minutes and 1 hour.

With these in your ears using the 25db filter



you get up to 25db reduction, so 115-25= 90db. From the decibel exposure time guideline chart (see top of page), now the sound is dangerous after a little over 2 hours.

Now throw foam earplugs in your ears



and you get a max of 32db reduction, so 115-32= 83db. From the decibel exposure time guideline chart (see top of page), now the sound is dangerous sometime after 8 hours.

Of course, the NRR ratings above are based on lab conditions which are rarely achieved in the real world:

Source: http://www.hearingreview.com/2007/0...ection-devices/

It has been demonstrated that labeled NRRs based on the ANSI S3.19-1974 formula show little resemblance to actual protection achieved in typical real-world conditions.7 Example: Clinical measurements of properly inserted ER-20s indicate that these earplugs provide an average of 20 dB attenuation across frequencies, but the labeled NRR of ER-20 earplugs is 12 dB. The required formula used to determine NRR includes an adjustment for individual variability and for those persons who don�t wear hearing protection as instructed. NRRs for foam earplugs are artificially high (most users obtain less attenuation than the NRR label indicates7) and NRRs for ER-20 earplugs are artificially low (most users obtain more attenuation than the label indicates1).

...The NRS for the ER-20 earplugs is 14 dB (�low value� which 80% of users should be able to exceed) to 20 dB (�high value� which highly motivated users may be able to achieve). The 6 dB range between these values was the smallest range for all 20 hearing protectors measured, indicating less variability and better reliability with flat attenuation earplugs.

The effectiveness foam earplugs depends on how well they're inserted and sealed. If less than 60% deep, then the reduction can be 10db or more less than the rated NRR (source: http://www.worksafesask.ca/files/ilo/ppe05ae.html

-----------

So now let's take the ER-20



NRR value that 80% of users should be able to exceed with the above example: 115-14= 101db, or harmful after 8-15 mins

Foam earplugs



that aren't in deep enough would probably give about 20-22NRR protection: 115-22 = 93db, or harmful after 30 mins to an hour.

If custom musicians earplugs



are fitted really well, then they should actually give the protection level stated above (no adjustment for "real world conditions" necessary).

Keep in mind that these examples are all from the ratings measured at the Sound Factory in San Francisco in 2000. So far, I haven't found any measurements for the clubs in LA, but we all know that the clubs have gotten a lot more quiet over the last 7 years, right?

So, some of the clubs are THAT loud. And, about clubs being only at dangerous levels only in the middle of the floor, between all the speakers:

source: http://www.hearnet.com/features/art...e_EdWclub.shtml

I'm okay as long as I dance far from the speakers, right? Wrong. Of course it's best to dance away from the speakers but you're still in danger without earplugs. The biggest difference in sound levels was noticed at the space on 3rd and Harrison, home to several dance clubs, including City Nights and Faith. If you dance on the back of the stage above the main dance floor, you'll save yourself about 4 decibels, but you would still be well in the danger zone.

------------------



Now back to the global warming debate: There's really no problem here, is there?

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Last edited by in2muzikk on Jul-28-2014 at 05:09

I hate articles that simply base hearing loss in pure decibel level. There's so much more than that. Tuning is SO crucial! It's why you can go into two different clubs where the music is entering your ear at the same decibel level but when you leave one club your ears are phone and in another your ears are ringing for a days. It's because of the tuning.

I think I've read one article in my life that fully explored the importance of both tuning AND volume, it was about five years ago and think it was a site that actually translated the article from a foreign magazine. Even had quotes from some DJs like PvD and emphasized how important it was for clubs to constantly have their gear retuned as systems tuning can get a bit out of whack on a frequency level after not much use, although we can't hear the difference with our own ears until it's tuning gets quite a bit out of whack. I'll look around for it, but prob won't find it.

That said, you should still take care of your ears...cause I just said, a system can be out of tune even though it sounds crisp to our ears!

quote:

Originally posted by in2muzikk I'm okay as long as I dance far from the speakers, right? Wrong. Of course it's best to dance away from the speakers but you're still in danger without earplugs. The biggest difference in sound levels was noticed at the space on 3rd and Harrison, home to several dance clubs, including City Nights and Faith. If you dance on the back of the stage above the main dance floor, you'll save yourself about 4 decibels, but you would still be well in the danger zone.

Here is a simplistic scenario of what I was saying:



The Area scribbled in blue is going to be 10dBSPL lower than the area in green, assuming this is a two speaker auditorium type setup (like a massive). Clubs with quad speaker setups arent going to have this little area. Why do you think the plebs huddle up by the DJ booth?! Is quiet up there!!

STICKY!

Very good info, I really need to invest in a pair myself

thats a lotta reading.


I learned exactly how the ear works in my sensation perception class. I was taught by a big researcher in the auditory field. It was really indepth and I learned a ton about wtf goes wrong.


I haven't invested in any just yet, but I do plan on making a trip to guitar center and pickin up some hear-os, er whatever they are called.

I support this thread, summary please? Let me take a crack at it....Prolonged exposure to Loud Music screws up your hearing, so use ear plugs or go deaf. Amirite?

I need to get around to getting some ear plugs no doubt.

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