Generally speaking, your master out should be at about -3.0 dB. When people refer to leaving headroom they are referring to the Master Out, not the individual tracks. You shouldn't worry, with ONE exception, about the amount of headroom on each individual track as this will vary depending on how your track is mixed.

There is one golden rule for every track in your project, both individual and master out:

Do not let any track exceed 0 dB. No matter what. No peaks, no average level must exceed 0 DB, on ANY track, even for a second. This is a very bad thing in the digital realm.

In the old analog realm, exceeding 0 dB could do very nice things sometimes, but it must not happen in the digital realm.

Remember that you can always leave even more headroom, -4 dB, -6 dB, etc. The problem with leaving too much headroom is that when the mastering process brings the track up to 0dB (or -0.2, which ever you prefer) you will have more noise. This is generally very, very quiet noise, but optimally -3.0 db is a good tradeoff of enough headroom for mastering without introducing too much noise. This rule is less of a problem if you haven't used anything outboard, but it still applies on some level.

Excellent. thats exactly what i wanted to know. So even in the mixing process, don't let anything go over 0db? Or are you referring to when convert to audio?

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quote:

Originally posted by cl0ckw3rk I use Ableton... ...What about the input/output of each instrument/effect in a chain? Should those have headroom too? Advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I hadn't thought of that till now, so I tested something.
I put a kick on a track then put two 'Utility' effects on it. The first set to +35db and the second to -35db. Both on or off, the sound was the same. I then recorded to a seperate track to compare the waveforms and they were identical. (I also stuck a Filter Delay in between to see if that made a difference, and it didn't)

So I find this interesting, how clipping is somehow avoided within a track (effect to effect). So, perhaps bit values can be ANYTHING within a track, but have their standard range outside (0-16bit, 0-24bit)

It would seem that peaking those little meters between effects doesn't do anything, as long as the final track out does not exceed 0db, then you should be fine.

-Alan

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J Do not let any track exceed 0 dB. No matter what. No peaks, no average level must exceed 0 DB, on ANY track, even for a second. This is a very bad thing in the digital realm.

With 32bit float internal mixing, isn't this irrelevant just as long as the master doesn't clip?
I mean assuming the synth/whatever on that channel is outputting to that volume and youre not just boosting a weak signal...

I generally set my kick to no higher than -6db, then I set the other instruments accordingly: first kick (being loudest), then subbass/midbass, next lead/percs(with respective eqing), finally fx/pads...and generally the master should hit around -4db to -3db during the mix down thus leaving headroom for mastering.

Keep in mind that this is an EXTREMELY general description, and you can't forget about stereo placement and reverb/delay. Both add an the element of space and depth to the mix and must be carefully balanced in the mix down...

And of course be careful choosing your instruments in the first place. Certain instruments(samples, synths, vox, etc.), each with their own timbre, won't always mix well together..

But the basic idea is to have the Kick and bassline working together as one force in the mix and as the strongest(loudest) force in the mix... the tricky part is getting the lead to cut thru the mix and remain powerful, while not interfering with the kick/bass combo(and everything else for that matter)...

K now I'm rambling on haha, I dunno I'm drunk...hope that helps lol

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What I posted earlier, >0db effect to effect within a track, behaves the same way track to track. So really, all that matters is that the master out doesn't exceed 0db since its next step is the D/A converter.

New question is... Do most if not all programs have 32bit internal depth? What about 3rd party plugins?

quote:

Originally posted by 3F05Q It would seem that peaking those little meters between effects doesn't do anything, as long as the final track out does not exceed 0db, then you should be fine. -Alan

This is really good to know, because I've always been very meticulous about levels when I mix. Thanks for the little experiment!

D_Verge, I see your point in setting the kick and bass levels first, and I'll give it a shot.

Now another question...Do any of you use any kind of Tube amp on leads or anything else? What about on bass? I'm just curious what kind of dynamics processing you guys normally use on individual instruments (other than compression/eq, obviously )

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It's OK to let individual channels peak if you're using floating-point processing. Actually, it's technically okay to let the master peak in this case, and it might sound fine, but the problems will occur when you bounce it, which will be to a 16- or 24-bit fixed-point format, and it'll sound fugly if clipped.

Just keep in mind that this does not translate to anything outside the software environment. If you've connected something over S/PDIF or ADAT, it will clip if it goes above zero! Or if you've, for example, run something through an analog compressor and connected it back through a line in, and you've jacked the compressor up too high, it will clip inbound. So as a general rule of thumb, you shouldn't let individual channels go above 0 dB either, just so you don't accidentally end up getting shafted when you try to use some other digital equipment.

The 3 dB of headroom is for mastering. If you're doing the mastering yourself, then the post-mastering peak should usually be -0.2 dB for CD (I stick with -0.5 to be safe).

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this is an amazing thread i have learnt quite a bit thanks guys!!!