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Originally posted by Capitalizt It just never fails to amaze me how lefties will praise and defend the most tyrannical people on earth as long as they utter the words "for socialism comrades!" every now and then. Its pointless to seriously debate these people because they obviously couldn't care less about the evil they are supporting. The religion of the left is THE STATE, and any politician who believes in expanding it "for socialism!" gets guaranteed support, regardless of their behavior or methods.

Yes lets instead champion the cause of the corporations to control our lives instead of the people we elect to do it!

Seriously mate, you need to get that hole in your brain looked at...

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Originally posted by Capitalizt It just never fails to amaze me how lefties will praise and defend the most tyrannical people on earth as long as they utter the words "for socialism comrades!" every now and then. Its pointless to seriously debate these people because they obviously couldn't care less about the evil they are supporting. The religion of the left is THE STATE, and any politician who believes in expanding it "for socialism!" gets guaranteed support, regardless of their behavior or methods.

Actually, please provide me with information why you don't like Chavez - economical reasons will not be accepted

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Originally posted by George Smiley Actually, please provide me with information why you don't like Chavez - economical reasons will not be accepted

Outlawing opposing viewpoints...Jailing and possibly killing political opponents for starters..

a few more tidbits of sunshine about your man Chavez...

Venezuela's military is considering the possibility of selling its fleet of U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets to another country, perhaps Iran, a Venezuelan military official said Tuesday.

In response to a U.S. ban on arms sales to President Hugo Chavez's government, Gen. Alberto Muller, a senior adviser to Chavez, told The Associated Press he had recommended to the defense minister that Venezuela consider selling the 21 jets to another country.

Muller said he thought it was worthwhile to consider "the feasibility of a negotiation with Iran for the sale of those planes."

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/a...s.ap/index.html

Venezuela's Chavez planning arms-for-oil trip to N. Korea

North Korea and Venezuela are discussing a strategic alliance motivated by a common goal � expanding anti-American forces.

During Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's meeting with North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il in late July, the two countries are also expected to craft an oil-for-arms deal. Venezuela's leader is most likely to fly to Pyongyang at the end of July on the occasion of his planned trip to Russia on July 25. Chavez told reporters that he plans to discuss science and technology cooperation with the North.

Analysts in Seoul say Kim and Chavez would mainly discuss forming a "strategic alliance" against the United States.

Ties between the two nations have been warming. Last September, Yang Hyoung-Sup, deputy head of the Presidium of the Supreme People's Assembly, traveled to Venezuela, followed by an economic delegation's visit in November led by Trade Minister Rim Kyong-Man.

Venezuela set up its first-ever permanent ambassadorial post in Pyongyang in April, 32 years after bilateral ties were forged in 1974.
"North Korea is expected to establish its embassy in Venezuela in the near future," a diplomatic source said.



Aside from becoming friends with two murderous regimes bent on developing nuclear weapons, there is plenty reason to dislike Chavez for his domestic policies alone...

One of the most negative points about Ch�vez, if not the worst, is the blatant disrespect he has shown towards democracy, institutions, and the Constitution he himself got drafted in 1999. He has concentrated a great deal of power on himself, and separation of powers, though protected by the Constitution, is a thing of the past. He dissolved the old Supreme Court and appointed an all-new Court completely favorable to him. The lower Courts are, as well, full of opportunistic Ch�vez cronies. The Attorney General, the Comptroller General, and the People's Defender (an all-new figure in the 99 Constitution) are basically employees to Ch�vez. He controls the chair of the National Electoral Council, and it needs not be said that he enjoys a comfortable majority in the National Assembly. Ch�vez and his cronies basically have the power to enact ANY law, decree, reform and judicial sentence they can think of. A fair trial? Pfft. No more.

With that great deal of power along with the polarization of the country comes, of course, a great deal of abuse. Particularly human rights and freedom of press abuses. The number of cases of human rights abuse have skyrocketed, specially since the April 11 coup, but most, if not all, are ignored by the judicial system because they are unfavorable to the regime. Hell, no serious investigation has ever been launched on the deaths of April 11. Most likely the United States was involved in the coup, but I'm sure that the United States did not shoot 19 people in the April 11 opposition march, or shut down the open-air TV signals when the channels showed images of the march next to Ch�vez's national broadcast. Thousands of people were threatened and/or fired from their jobs because they signed the referendum petition or participated in opposition rallies and protests.

Check for yourself some of the human rights abuses: Documents on Venezuela from Amnesty International and the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights. I am not making things up.

Ch�vez has consistently and systematically bullied the media. Yes, a media that was for the most part, very biased. That is however, no excuse for the curtailing of civil liberties. Several journalists have been persecuted, imprisoned, and even tortured. News media outlets have been attacked by government supporters. Many international organizations have denounced the deterioration of the freedom of press, among them Reporters without Borders, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, the Interamerican Press Society (in Spanish) and the International Association of Broadcasting (in Spanish). Again, I invite you to read for yourself.

The media censorship and human rights abuses are only expected to increase after the recent passing of several laws by decree (and some that are still being drafted).

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Originally posted by Capitalizt Outlawing opposing viewpoints...Jailing and possibly killing political opponents for starters..

No that's your word. Give me information (and RCTV doesn't count as they were involved in the coup)

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Originally posted by Capitalizt Outlawing opposing viewpoints...Jailing and possibly killing political opponents for starters..

I think that this is either intentional or just a result of more CIA "blowback" but I believe in the former more than the latter.

I know it sounds impossible but according to my friend's father (Capt. E.S. Geary - the only man in history to simultaneously hold a Captain's position in both the US and Venezuelan Coast Guards), Chavez is probably just another pawn for the world's financial elite. The CIA were the ones who worked to install him as President, back in the 1990's.

http://www.eworldwire.com/pressreleases/15330

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Originally posted by Capitalizt It just never fails to amaze me how lefties will praise and defend the most tyrannical people on earth as long as they utter the words "for socialism comrades!" every now and then. Its pointless to seriously debate these people because they obviously couldn't care less about the evil they are supporting. The religion of the left is THE STATE, and any politician who believes in expanding it "for socialism!" gets guaranteed support, regardless of their behavior or methods.

I haven't praised anything friend, I am simply remarking on your one liners.

___________________
Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

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Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

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Originally posted by venomX I haven't praised anything friend, I am simply remarking on your one liners.

sorry, got you confused with smiley

But what's the point debating with you when you automatically decide something is bad because it mentions the word 'socialism'. You have a switch in your head, programmed by Cold War propaganda which has no relevance to today's world, that breeds pure hatred when you hear 'socialism'. Yet you have no understanding of what socialism is. You couldn't describe it to me if your life depended on it, other than to give me the silly slur put about by the neocons (the sworn enemies of the USSR) that Firestarter repeated earlier in the thread.

Chavez says socialism so you automatically equate that with distatorship because of your culture - yet how do you explain that 60% of the country voted for him? And as for the media, 80% is controlled by the opposition and when the slate the government they don't hold back like our media do it's vicious! Add to that their involvement in the failed CIA backed coup and you have to ask yourself whether they are perhaps breaking laws we would have in our own countries, such as treason and at the least libel laws!

But democracy is not something you believe in is it Capitalizt? You don't believe that a nation state should be governed by the people do you? Otherwise you would have to acknowledge that the Venezuelan people chose Chavez to govern them by a huge majority and if that is how they want to be ruled then who are we to decide otherwise?

But not you eh? You believe in the right of the richest 5% of a population to rule without law the rest of the population. You support your CIA in the overthrowing of democratically elected governments and I can guarantee you will have supported the overthrowing of Allande in Chile in 1973 and can probably defend Pinochet? Is this how they teach it in American schools these days?

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Originally posted by George Smiley But what's the point debating with you when you automatically decide something is bad because it mentions the word 'socialism'. You have a switch in your head, programmed by Cold War propaganda which has no relevance to today's world, that breeds pure hatred when you hear 'socialism'. Yet you have no understanding of what socialism is. You couldn't describe it to me if your life depended on it, other than to give me the silly slur put about by the neocons (the sworn enemies of the USSR) that Firestarter repeated earlier in the thread. Chavez says socialism so you automatically equate that with distatorship because of your culture - yet how do you explain that 60% of the country voted for him? And as for the media, 80% is controlled by the opposition and when the slate the government they don't hold back like our media do it's vicious! Add to that their involvement in the failed CIA backed coup and you have to ask yourself whether they are perhaps breaking laws we would have in our own countries, such as treason and at the least libel laws! But democracy is not something you believe in is it Capitalizt? You don't believe that a nation state should be governed by the people do you? Otherwise you would have to acknowledge that the Venezuelan people chose Chavez to govern them by a huge majority and if that is how they want to be ruled then who are we to decide otherwise? But not you eh? You believe in the right of the richest 5% of a population to rule without law the rest of the population. You support your CIA in the overthrowing of democratically elected governments and I can guarantee you will have supported the overthrowing of Allande in Chile in 1973 and can probably defend Pinochet? Is this how they teach it in American schools these days?

Bottom line buddy...Chavez has allied himself with an Islamofascist state (Iran) and a murderous semi-psychotic dictatorship (North Korea). He has stolen property from his own people at the point of the gun. He has outlawed all dissent in his own country...forcibly closing down all outlets for opposing viewpoints. Anyone who publicly disagrees with Chavez is jailed (or worse). The man now rules completely by decree...enacting laws and confiscating land on a whim with ZERO checks and balances.

He is a proven tyrant, and you are doing the socialist/marxist cause a great disservice by supporting him.

Read the links above before you try responding again.

I dont understand why people have so much faith in their governments to run their lives. The idea of Nationalising private property.. now there's a surefast way of impoverishing your people.

Here in Australia we have a government which is one of the best run in the world (apparently), yet they still wouldnt be able to tie their own shoelaces. Imagine letting some power hungry sociopath do the job. Scary stuff..

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A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire