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40 000 kids about to fail high school...

i was sitting on the shitter this morning when i read this article in the star: http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/Con...ol=968793972154

school too tough? not enough funding? boo-fucking-hoo... you want to talk underfunded? when i was in high school, we couldn't take history textbooks out of class cause there weren't enough for everyone... when i was in high school, i learned TURING on one of those unisys ICON things (to put things in perspective, this was 1999... yes, the age of pentium III... we were still using those fucked up things with the big black trackball...). we didn't just roll over and fail and then blame someone else. 4 years of high school is standard all over canada. i'll admit, i had it easy... oac year was a joke... but a 4 year cirriculum is NORMAL. deal with it. is it too tough to use "you're" and "your" correctly? what about "its" and "it's"? "their" and they're"? if kids would rather loiter at malls every night and habitually use bad grammar like their favourite pop-stars, then they have no one else to blame but themselves. kids are skipping class, not giving a shit and trying to live "thug life"... who else can they blame? maybe their parents, for raising undisciplined kids. OBVIOUSLY i'm not referring to all students here... some actually have difficulty in school, that's fine. i don't mean to insult anyone who geniunely has a hard time in school. but when you spend your evenings hanging out at the local tim horton's with your souped up sunfire, don't blame the government for failing school.

i probably sound like a crochety old man right now, but i'm not. i'm not that old... i've only been out of high school for 3 years. i still know friends in high school, and they're not doing so bad. even when i was still in school, most of the niners were all jr. thugs, hanging out in the parking lot all the time. i'm sure you all saw this coming. hey, if they wanna be too cool for school, don't whine about it later.

aha I remember turing.. that was class!! I guess my school was a bit better funded we learned on pentium75's with Windows 3.1

4 yrs isnt standard.
Nothing out west has 4 years. Not BC, AB, Sask, MB

3 years ago alberta went to split math programs pure and applied. Grades went up alot. Its the same math, just different.

I dont think you caught the idea of the article at all.

Re: 40 000 kids about to fail high school...

quote:

Originally posted by mr. poopyhead i was sitting on the shitter this morning when i read this article in the star: http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/Con...ol=968793972154 school too tough? not enough funding? boo-fucking-hoo... you want to talk underfunded? when i was in high school, we couldn't take history textbooks out of class cause there weren't enough for everyone... when i was in high school, i learned TURING on one of those unisys ICON things (to put things in perspective, this was 1999... yes, the age of pentium III... we were still using those fucked up things with the big black trackball...). we didn't just roll over and fail and then blame someone else. 4 years of high school is standard all over canada. i'll admit, i had it easy... oac year was a joke... but a 4 year cirriculum is NORMAL. deal with it. is it too tough to use "you're" and "your" correctly? what about "its" and "it's"? "their" and they're"? if kids would rather loiter at malls every night and habitually use bad grammar like their favourite pop-stars, then they have no one else to blame but themselves. kids are skipping class, not giving a shit and trying to live "thug life"... who else can they blame? maybe their parents, for raising undisciplined kids. OBVIOUSLY i'm not referring to all students here... some actually have difficulty in school, that's fine. i don't mean to insult anyone who geniunely has a hard time in school. but when you spend your evenings hanging out at the local tim horton's with your souped up sunfire, don't blame the government for failing school. i probably sound like a crochety old man right now, but i'm not. i'm not that old... i've only been out of high school for 3 years. i still know friends in high school, and they're not doing so bad. even when i was still in school, most of the niners were all jr. thugs, hanging out in the parking lot all the time. i'm sure you all saw this coming. hey, if they wanna be too cool for school, don't whine about it later.

I don't blame you for ranting. You don't know anything about the new curriculum.

well, to rehash some high school in NS when I went, 3 years. To graduate:
3 english(non academic)
1 math(could be non academic)
1 Global (history or geography)could be non academic as well
1 Social Studies(non academic as well)
1 Science (could be like easy Bio or like a Science 10, which meant you did easy Physics, and Chem, etc.)

and thats it, taking like 5 courses a year.
all the requirements to get your high school diploma. didnt need to take gym or some career course or other crap. that was it.
if anyone couldn't get their diploma then they were
A) not there, at all
B) again, not there at all
or
C)didn't do anything at all, see A + B
or
D)kicked out from doing something stupid


sounds like "streaming" to me in the article. EVERYONE has to go to university. so high school favors those people who are going into university.
it doesn't help people out who are going to drive trucks, or be chefs, or be a mechanic. definitely a f* mindset.

honestly, it's all about study habbits.

high school here in Ontario is jokes compared to high schools outside of canada.

I hate to say this but education back home is sure a whole lot better. I remember when i came here, when i was 10 years old, my math and science skills sure were about 1.5 years ahead of the current grade here.

i think it's embaressing cuz in Egypt, ALL of it have 1/4 the fund of Ontario (size wise, Ontario is larger but i'm talking about population density here) yet sure.. not as many ppl graduate and end up in univ. but EVERY univ student that enters, passes.

i know i'm talking bs and my stats might be off but not that far off. I could quote a source or two about the # of grads but i'm sure alotta ppl do agree with me so i will not

Re: 40 000 kids about to fail high school...

quote:

Originally posted by mr. poopyhead i was sitting on the shitter this morning when i read this article in the star: http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/Con...ol=968793972154 school too tough? not enough funding? boo-fucking-hoo... you want to talk underfunded? when i was in high school, we couldn't take history textbooks out of class cause there weren't enough for everyone... when i was in high school, i learned TURING on one of those unisys ICON things (to put things in perspective, this was 1999... yes, the age of pentium III... we were still using those fucked up things with the big black trackball...). we didn't just roll over and fail and then blame someone else. 4 years of high school is standard all over canada. i'll admit, i had it easy... oac year was a joke... but a 4 year cirriculum is NORMAL. deal with it. is it too tough to use "you're" and "your" correctly? what about "its" and "it's"? "their" and they're"? if kids would rather loiter at malls every night and habitually use bad grammar like their favourite pop-stars, then they have no one else to blame but themselves. kids are skipping class, not giving a shit and trying to live "thug life"... who else can they blame? maybe their parents, for raising undisciplined kids. OBVIOUSLY i'm not referring to all students here... some actually have difficulty in school, that's fine. i don't mean to insult anyone who geniunely has a hard time in school. but when you spend your evenings hanging out at the local tim horton's with your souped up sunfire, don't blame the government for failing school. i probably sound like a crochety old man right now, but i'm not. i'm not that old... i've only been out of high school for 3 years. i still know friends in high school, and they're not doing so bad. even when i was still in school, most of the niners were all jr. thugs, hanging out in the parking lot all the time. i'm sure you all saw this coming. hey, if they wanna be too cool for school, don't whine about it later.

Wow! Your ignorance towards the public education system is mind boggeling.

4 year programs may be normal, yes, but what is not normal is the fact that courses like grade 12 physics and calculus have become so ridiculously difficult that only a small majority of kids will pass it. And why is it difficult? Not because we're dumb, but because teachers aren't teaching anymore. They just give examples from the teachers handbook until you give up due to frustration of the teacher not knowing what the fuck they're talking about.

Then at the end of the period, your teacher assigns you at least 1 hour of homework per class. If you have 4 classes that's 1 hour x 4 classes = 4 hours of homework per night. This is for University and University/College courses.

If you aren't in the University or University College programs, the administration and your peers treat you like an idiot. Add that with a disgustingly low budget for extra curricular programs and you've got a bunch of belittled teenagers with nothing better to do but smoke weed and skip class. "Thug life?" More like "Life of a youth who the adults of society have failed"

Gone are the glory days of highschool where you could get an education, have good friends, and play sports after school.

Highschool these days isn't about learning, it's about sucking your teacher's dick until he decides to give you a high enough mark so that maybe you can get into university and achieve your dreams. Oh and you better forget about part time job, after school sports or a social life because you have so much work and stress that you couldn't possibly deal with anything besides high school.

Now I'm gonna hear bitching about how hard it is in university and college. Well that's expected. High school isn't supposed to be like post secondary options. That's why you don't go to university right after elementry school.

Imagine this. Little Johnny goes into highschool. He dreams of a bright future with lots of money and fast cars. Johnny finishes grade 9 with more THC in his blood than a shopping bag full of weed because the government doesn't want to give the schools money for extra-curricular programs, and Johnny's parents are too busy working to see what he's doing with his free time. Johnny has nothing better to do than smoke weed and talk about how much of a thug he is.

Then Johnny gets into grade 10 in which point he takes a career studies class. In this career studies class they have charts of potential jobs and what you need to take in highschool to get to them. They present you with the university option with nice glamorous promises of $100,000 + / year salaries and tell you of all the nice things that go along with that job. Then they present the college option. $45,000 a year maximum. But of course, the college option is okay too. Of course he applies for university math, physics, chemistry, and biology in grade 11 because he wants to make $100,000 + / year too.

Then he gets into grade 11 and starts taking that heavy course load. He gets through a few tests in his courses, and fails each one of them. But that's okay, he'll do better, if he studies harder, and works harder. Remember Johnny, if you don't get that 90, you're a fuck up. JOhnny still has the option of going into college courses, but he doesn't want to do that, he wants to make $100,000 a year, even though he has absolutely no intrest in any of these courses. Finally Johnny finishes grade 11, only passing 2 of his classes. He realizes that he's wasted a year of highschool and drops out to work construction.

Sound unbelievable? Well believe it, because this is what is happening to too many kids in highschool. Too much onus is put on big bucks, universities etc. No one does what they like to do or what they're capable of anymore. It's just about how big your pay check is in the end. What kind of way is that to teach kids?

I know I jumped all over the place in this post but I'm not editing it

Our education system is FUCKED UP.











Thank you.

Re: Re: 40 000 kids about to fail high school...

nice post.. nice story, =P
but i just have a few things to say...

quote:

Originally posted by The Highroller Wow! Your ignorance towards the public education system is mind boggeling. 4 year programs may be normal, yes, but what is not normal is the fact that courses like grade 12 physics and calculus have become so ridiculously difficult that only a small majority of kids will pass it. And why is it difficult? Not because we're dumb, but because teachers aren't teaching anymore. They just give examples from the teachers handbook until you give up due to frustration of the teacher not knowing what the fuck they're talking about.

we used to have all sorts of incompetent teachers. it's ALWAYS been like that. i once had a physics teacher that wrote "good morning class, welcome to bonjour!" on the first day of class. i still have friends and family in high school. i've seen the work they do and i sometimes help them out with their problems. in some ways, the grade 12 courses that have replaced the old oac courses are EASIER.

quote:

Then at the end of the period, your teacher assigns you at least 1 hour of homework per class. If you have 4 classes that's 1 hour x 4 classes = 4 hours of homework per night. This is for University and University/College courses.

nothing new there...

quote:

If you aren't in the University or University College programs, the administration and your peers treat you like an idiot. Add that with a disgustingly low budget for extra curricular programs and you've got a bunch of belittled teenagers with nothing better to do but smoke weed and skip class. "Thug life?" More like "Life of a youth who the adults of society have failed"

it would be ideal to have the school provide after school stuff, but that's still not an excuse for giving up on life and smoking pot all day.

quote:

Gone are the glory days of highschool where you could get an education, have good friends, and play sports after school.

if you have nothing better to do, won't you have MORE time for sports after school or a part time job? why do sports have to be school related? (intramurals and stuff?)

you had a huge post... i'll reply more later, =P.

Re: Re: Re: 40 000 kids about to fail high school...

quote:

Originally posted by mr. poopyhead if you have nothing better to do, won't you have MORE time for sports after school or a part time job? why do sports have to be school related? (intramurals and stuff?)

How is that supposed to work if you've already got 5 hours of homework each night?

Re: Re: Re: 40 000 kids about to fail high school...

quote:

Originally posted by mr. poopyhead it would be ideal to have the school provide after school stuff, but that's still not an excuse for giving up on life and smoking pot all day.

Some of these kids aren't as smart as you and I. Some need things to keep them occupied or they'll fall through the cracks.

quote:

if you have nothing better to do, won't you have MORE time for sports after school or a part time job? why do sports have to be school related? (intramurals and stuff?)

Because parents are too busy to sign them up for these sports, they don't know anybody that's in the league, etc etc.

Intramurals are fine, but after school programs are most important.

I�m one of those kids. I graduated with the double cohort and now I�m "victory lapping" because my grades weren�t good enough. THIS IS WHAT THE PROBLEM IS. They didn't start us in the new curriculum when we first started school in Kindergarten. They just threw it at us 1st year of high school, none of us where prepared because they didn�t prepare us in gr. 8. We were learning some grade 11 material in grade nine as well as the grade 9 stuff and half of ten. Plus the fact we were competing for spots in University with double the people, half of which had 5 years to complete the same material we had 4 years to do. What they say about Physics is true. Its the hardest course I�ve ever taken. We used the old oac textbooks who expected us to know physics from the introductory course that the old oac's took in grade 11. Why did we use OAC textbooks? because our fucking texts books wouldn't be arriving till second semester... No god damn Planning! Nobody thought this through it was just some great idea someone had. Who cares if it took us longer to complete High school we have over twice the pop as those provinces that only take 4 years. I would be writing a lot more but I have to study for my fucking exams... I hate exams.

ill give you a perfect example, grade 11 university math

i said to myself im going to do well this year, i have to study hard and do good so ill get into universtity. the first week and a half of classes go by, and i do an hour to an hour and a half of MATH homework a night ( keep in mind i had 3 other university level courses with lots of hw as well). i had to call my friend who is a math whiz every night in order to keep up.

first math test comes, that 1-2 hours a night of math homework didnt seem to help me to much, i got a 66%


go school!!!!

high school sports are the reason I am where I am.
If not for it, I would probably be a drop out.

I am lucky that I am a relatively bright student.

But the students in the 50% - 60% range are screwed. There is only room to fail 2 courses before you have to come back another year. And it's pretty shitty having 2 full semesters during Grade 12. I am so thankful to have those 2 spares.

Also, the big thing that nobody seems to understand about the 4 year system: you are getting kids in Uni/College who still can't SIGN anything themselves because they are only 17. So, it's become extremely attractive to take a year or two off before going to post-secondary education.


More kids dropping out of the new curriculum? I'm not surprised. My grade 12 university physics class moves so fast, we basically had to skip the whole last unit, because there isn't enough time to teach what the government declares we need to learn in this course.

Re: 40 000 kids about to fail high school...

quote:

Originally posted by mr. poopyhead when i was in high school, i learned TURING on one of those unisys ICON things (to put things in perspective, this was 1999... yes, the age of pentium III... we were still using those fucked up things with the big black trackball...). we didn't just roll over and fail and then blame someone else.

hahahaha... I thought we were the only school left in existence that still had those things... We learnt QBasic on the oldschool IBM XT's from like 1982. These things were beyond ancient.

High school was a complete waste of time as is University. I ended up teaching myself 95% of what I know.

-Your Mother

Re: Re: 40 000 kids about to fail high school...

quote:

Originally posted by psychosomatica I don't blame you for ranting. You don't know anything about the new curriculum.

Pffft, not mater the curriculum, it's taught, the texts are there to learn from, plenty of help is available.

There are two majority groups that have issues with school. Serious issues like those with learning disabilities/home problems, and the ppl who blow off school. Spend time in any neighbourhood around a high-school when classes should be in, or @ a mall in Toronto, and bet you loose count of the kids that should be in class pretty quick.

What group do you think the majority of the current crop of failed students falls into?

Re: Re: 40 000 kids about to fail high school...

quote:

Originally posted by Your Mother High school was a complete waste of time as is University. I ended up teaching myself 95% of what I know.

I know, eh... but you only figure out that it was a waste of time a bit too late in life, huh?

it's not the educational system, it's not even teenagers, media? nope.. I blame it all on bad parenting. whatever that's gotta do with anything, I dunno...

(puts back his headphones...
DIRTY POP...
DIRTY POP...
)

quote:

Originally posted by Mosaic There is only room to fail 2 courses before you have to come back another year.

T'is false. You can take up to two upgrade courses (just to boost your mark) or re-do one whole course (to get a completely new mark) per summer school term, each year. You also have your night school option, as well as correspondence/online courses.

quote:

(...) it's become extremely attractive to take a year or two off before going to post-secondary education.

Which can be an extremely good thing to do, for many people.

I've stated this all before but...

a) Schools are always way behind what's happening in the real world.
(95% of them anyways)
b) Schools are a culture unto themselves with a mindset that doesn't help people after they graduate. They teach you what they want, leave you starting your life deep in debt and leave you to scramble for whatever job you can find in your field (IF you're lucky).
c) Your banker will never ask you for your report card...

Am I saying don't go to school? No.
Schools are important but remember they don't teach you everything you'll need to know when you get out into the 'real world'.
Then the real schooling begins...

quote:

Oh and you better forget about part time job, after school sports or a social life because you have so much work and stress that you couldn't possibly deal with anything besides high school.

Oh, boo hoo. University was hella harder than high school, and I managed to work part time through that. Now I'm on my post-grad, and I'm even considering trying to get a part time job, when I have over 35 hours of actual classes, that are much harder than highschool (and no PE, Art, or Drama, either).

I think these kids are just trying to find someone else to blame. I can understand the problem of trying to get into University, because there are double the number of kids trying. But, get a job, take a year off, and you'll have less of a student loan to manage later. The University I went to increased its entrance GPA, so If I had waited 4 years, I wouldn't have been able to go... (It now has a 84% entrance GPA). Anyway, if the student really applies themself, they can get the grade. I'll admit, I didn't work at all in highschool, and still managed to get into University. So, if these kids apply themself, get help if they need it (its available), they should do fine.

Re: Re: Re: 40 000 kids about to fail high school...

quote:

Originally posted by crazedcanuck Pffft, not mater the curriculum, it's taught, the texts are there to learn from, plenty of help is available. There are two majority groups that have issues with school. Serious issues like those with learning disabilities/home problems, and the ppl who blow off school. Spend time in any neighbourhood around a high-school when classes should be in, or @ a mall in Toronto, and bet you loose count of the kids that should be in class pretty quick. What group do you think the majority of the current crop of failed students falls into?

lol. There are more than 2 types of students. The new curriculum and the double cohort present many problems which many people cannot even begin to comprehend.. The whole transition has been anything but a common sense revolution.. If you ask me, they're throwing away too much potential...

Re: Re: Re: Re: 40 000 kids about to fail high school...

quote:

Originally posted by psychosomatica lol. There are more than 2 types of students. The new curriculum and the double cohort present many problems which many people cannot even begin to comprehend.. The whole transition has been anything but a common sense revolution.. If you ask me, they're throwing away too much potential...

Of course there are many types of students, and even those similar in characteristics are different. I was simply dividing two of the groups which would make up the majority of students "failing" under different umbrellas.

The students failing in this report have grown in the new curriculum, it's not like it was a bomb dropped in their last year. Certainly there are all kinds of kids with issues for different reasons, but you can't tell me 40,000 kids are suddenly underprepped for the end of a curriculum which they've been studying in for @ leqast 4 yrs now.

quote:

Originally posted by k0nk Oh, boo hoo. University was hella harder than high school, and I managed to work part time through that. Now I'm on my post-grad, and I'm even considering trying to get a part time job, when I have over 35 hours of actual classes, that are much harder than highschool (and no PE, Art, or Drama, either). I think these kids are just trying to find someone else to blame. I can understand the problem of trying to get into University, because there are double the number of kids trying. But, get a job, take a year off, and you'll have less of a student loan to manage later. The University I went to increased its entrance GPA, so If I had waited 4 years, I wouldn't have been able to go... (It now has a 84% entrance GPA). Anyway, if the student really applies themself, they can get the grade. I'll admit, I didn't work at all in highschool, and still managed to get into University. So, if these kids apply themself, get help if they need it (its available), they should do fine.

Again, a 14-17 year old is not the same as a 20 year old. You can't compare how hard university life is with highschool life because they are at 2 different stages in their lives.

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