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Hardware - Software , Getting Closer and closer?

in the late days of 2004 iv noticed alot of bedroom producers who got signed into big lables without using any super-massive-badass-boneater studio - A SOFTWARE. iv opened this poll to ask would u buy any new awesome piece of gear OR u prefer waiting that time will pass and more funky software technologies and technix will be released? many awesome tunes made with software and stuff and the space between software and hardware is getting smaller and smaller due time. mean while iv decided i wont use my money for hardware since with some reading and stuff u can create the same sounds as the hardware's... what do u think?

i go for SOFTWARE only and i see "buying expensive hardware synths" as a waste of money...

i voted for software only because i cant choose the other two hehe, HOWEVER, i think hardware is and always will be the best, i mean, compare all the stuff today to something Ferry or M.I.K.E. or Armin use/???? (yes they use hardware dont bullshit me , they reason bla bla bla)
nothing can compare to the real sound of hardware, but i stick with software because hardware is too much money, and theres no garuntees

Oh yay, another hardware vs. software thread.

None-the-less, I voted for hardware. Software is getting better and better (and continues to impress me), but I've yet to hear any piece of software which would make me want to sell my Virus. In fact, if I can find the funds, I'll replace my VC with a Ti since it's the best of both worlds.

hardware is better! yeah software keeps getting closer but still you can't make the same deep warm sound with software as you can do with hardware! when you'r saying hardware it's not just synths...it effects! there so many hardware effects (tube compressors and such things) that are much better then any vst on the market! much better!

i think the synth's sound will be similler soon but the sound that you'll get with hardware effects will be much better then any vst soon that's i'm sure!

i'm working with only software right now but i'm aware of the big diffrence and gonna spend some money on hardware soon!

this thread is going to end up in a battle between:

1)hardware addicts
2)people who can't buy it because it's too expensive and use warez
3)software addicts


so the results of the poll won't mean so much, it will just count the number of members in each of those 3 categories.

hey mate,
totally agree with you although I think that hardware does currently sound better than software (althought I have many times mistaken software synths for hardware ones)
The future looks good for software synthesis and it can only get better

well if you compare the sound of hardware and software synths you'll hear a big difference. software is far away from the current hardware. well, that counts only for native software-synths. then there's the virus powercore which has almost no difference to the real virus b. but it's still not native and uses the same dsp as the real hardware.

but the big difference is only hearable when you use some fat leads or filter sweeps on top in the mix. i would say you can use software for basslines, FXs, background melodies, plucked leads, ... and nobody can say if it's software or hardware. (well, only if it's produced properly )

but for all those supersaw sounds, the software still needs some years to get there.

Software vs Hardware

Hi there!

I am not going to argue if software sounds better than hardware. People who own both hardware and software synths know the answer to this question.

I am going to talk about spending money on hardware vs software, and You are all welcome to throw in your oppinion. I will be using some quotes from the latest article by Mark Cooper, who writes for FUTURE MUSIC magazine. His opinion is quite close to my, and if you have been long enough in this music making hobby, you know this is the reality.
I personally have been making music using a computer and hardware synth since 91'. Way before you could eaven use your PC for such a task as sequencing or hard disk recording. I do it for a hobby still, I guess I am stuck for life with it! but that's a good thing...

back to the topic...

quote:

Gear has come and gone, but there was invariably around 50 per cent of cost to be garnered from selling it providing you did not trash the thing first: it's value sustained by the fact that it would work tommorow, and ever-after, barring a crunching catastrophe. One didn't even fret over the manufacturer imploding, never to be seen again.

quote:

Not so in the virtuall world, of course. Resale is at best tricky, if possible at all. An OS update might someday soon render an item unusable should the manufacturer ceses to support your preffared flavour.Or prehaps ther's the ubiquitous "upgrade path" that has you paying for the same pice of virtuall gear aver and over again. Or perchance the manufacturer has imploded along with their challenge/response server. Bye-Bye Cash

Take a look at LOGIC. It was made for both the pc and apple, and now they are apple strictly. You guys should see how many frustrated pc users they gained, Spending close to one grand for software that they can no longer get updates for, and no support of any kind.. Thease people were just left behind. Does the company care? Well ya send them another chunk of cash for an upgrade, and throw in another fiew grand for a new mac.. As soon as windows operation system changes again, it might be rendered useless.

And this happens with a lot of stuff. Maybe we don't think about it when we buy a new $500 soft synth.. " People who use H2O releases no need to apply here" We know that most amateur and some pro users as well,"Personaly know fiew of them" Use cracked software, And the only thing they ever spend money on are computer upgrades, some pro monitors, a keyboard controller and of course a sound card. Yet they still argue with you how software is so good vs hardware. Well I will only add this: Anything that's free is good, don't you think? I wonder what their opinion would be if they had to take the $500 they never spend on their latest vst, and accually go and buy it, or spend the $500 on a second hand Hardware unit " fill in the blanks here a synth of your choice" Hello EBAY hehe.. What would they really choose? A hardware synth that's a hands on experiance, something that they will be able to sell once they get bored of or decide to take up another hobby? That is something You have to think about when going to "all software studio" when you accually buy the software and don't use cracked stuff.. Software synths are not that cheap. My friend was once in a situation that he wanted to get some new sounds, He was looking into some software synths. They came up to a price of a used Access Virus c, can you guess what he got? Well he was thankfull he got the virus c because: it was hands on experiance "loves to tweak knobs", great sound libary, recently sold to get Virus Ti, would he get any money back from the software? maybe a small portion but far avay from the money he got back from the hardware unit.

Do you know that when you buy some of the software synths you don't own them at all? You just have a right to use it. You can't give it to a friend, that's a violation of the end user agreement. Basically it's illegal. Now who's gonna stop me from giving my virus c to a friend for a week? No one.

Last quote

quote:

Consequently, we are left with two options: To either accept that what you buy today will be valueless in five years time and require a replacement at cost.

I wonder how many sotware synths will be running for me down the road, let's say after windows switches from xp to another 64 bit version, and than after 2-3 years to another version? Or prahaps will it run using the lastes version of cubase 4-5? or Fruity loops pro 6-7 or 8?
How many companies will provide support for a 3-5 year old soft synth?
Will my TC powercore run with the new motherboards? It already dropped down in value like crazy. Hmm I wonder?

Anyways this is the price we pay for new technology, and that's what the manufacturers will tell you. But one thing I can be certain, I could still be using that virus c down the road, and maybe sell it for some nice chunk of cash once it reaches "classic status" down the road. Hey look at some of the analogs, 909, 303, have you seen the prices on those units? Some of them were cheaper when they came out brand new..

I always loved hardware, I am alvays leaning more toward hardware. I guess I like the thought that if anything ever happens I could get some of the hard earned cash back, not eaven mentioning thre other adventages. I do have software synths, but sometimes I just regret buying some of them, "but that's some of them not all" It's not nice to see you just spent $400 bucks on a soft synth and all of your music buddies got it for a price of 5 minute of their time downloading for free.. makes you wonder if it's really worth it. But piracy is another topic

Well so basically it's up to the user if he like's software synths more than hardware, or both. Both is the best combination I say. It also depends how much money you are willing to spend on your hobby.

Good day, and keep on producing!

Re: Software vs Hardware

quote:

Originally posted by DJDIRTY Now who's gonna stop me from giving my virus c to a friend for a week? No one.

Great!! Are we on a first name basis yet?

listening to VST Trance is like driving a false Ferrari.. or buying false clothes.. it hasn`t the right soul.. or just doesn`t "feel" right..

shut up and answer the question

interesting reading DJDIRTY

I haven't used any hardware synths for music production so its hard to say.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle listening to VST Trance is like driving a false Ferrari.. or buying false clothes.. it hasn`t the right soul.. or just doesn`t "feel" right..

Can I nominate this for bullshit-reply-of-2005 please?

No offence, but why do you need hardware to make 'proper' music? What is the difference between a lead that comes from the Virus B or from the Powercore Virus plugin? They basically use the same algorithms, but the Powercore is a software plugin.

Maybe this is a wrong example.

What if I made a track with true instruments, and remade it only with true-sample based VSTs like Spectrasonics' Trilogy. Could you tell me the difference between those two? Maybe you could if you knew. But if you didn't know, I guess you still would think it hasn't got the 'right soul'.

No you won't, unless you have some extraordinary powers.

quote:

Originally posted by Passiva No offence, but why do you need hardware to make 'proper' music? What is the difference between a lead that comes from the Virus B or from the Powercore Virus plugin? They basically use the same algorithms, but the Powercore is a software plugin. What if I made a track with true instruments, and remade it only with true-sample based VSTs like Spectrasonics' Trilogy. Maybe this is a wrong example.

I think it was.. both of those are software/hardware hybrids.. I think he was referring to SoftSynths such as Reason, z3ta, V-Station, Pro-53, etc etc..

quote:

Originally posted by Passiva Can I nominate this for bullshit-reply-of-2005 please? No offence, but why do you need hardware to make 'proper' music? What is the difference between a lead that comes from the Virus B or from the Powercore Virus plugin? They basically use the same algorithms, but the Powercore is a software plugin. Maybe this is a wrong example. What if I made a track with true instruments, and remade it only with true-sample based VSTs like Spectrasonics' Trilogy. Could you tell me the difference between those two? Maybe you could if you knew. But if you didn't know, I guess you still would think it hasn't got the 'right soul'. No you won't, unless you have some extraordinary powers.

I will ignore the Powercore argument.. which isnt quite software.. we all know that.. u NEED the hardware to run it.. its like putting a hardware synth INTO the computer and calling a software..

about the Trilogy.. its not "quite" perfect as it is not sampled on each note, which makes alot of the notes sound.. kinda wierd on different keys.. Trilogy is excellent if u hit the right keys..

u cannot deny the fact that hardware synths sounds alot better than software, no doubt about it.. thats a true fact as it is.. alot of good things can come out of a Software workstation... but it would be physically impossible to make sounds in the likes of Push using software.. and that is the only example i need for that..

u can make excellent stuff using software.. but i know there are many people that agree with me in the fact that Trance these days has become soulless.. and its has much to do with the possibility of people using VST`s and software only.. in the early days a producer was much more "skilled" than nowadays.. learning his hardware equipment to the max.. (and that is what it is... the soul, and the hard work behind the tune.. )

lets face it.. anyone nowadays can make some sort of trance tune.. using only presets and samples.. but. off course, making a track sounding good enough for a release is hard and demands skills.. sure does.. (if not i would have releases too ) but point is, it doesnt take as MUCH effort as before.. hence its losing its soul..

quote:

but for all those supersaw sounds, the software still needs some years to get there.

on the contrary i can bosh up a very convincing supersaw using rb2k's reaktor jp8000 reaktor ensemble + vanguard + internal fruity plugs. what i find is not quite so reproduceable is the kind of warmth that analogue synths have. analogue monosynths in particular i feel dont have great translations into software. just trying to recreate psy basslines, i always like that...underside that you get with a real sh 101 bass or a real 303 bass or a prophet bass. the filter on old analogues and some VAs like nord lead and virus are seriously smooth as well. which is another thing i dont often see in software. vanguard's filter does noticeably step sometimes. the virus filter never steps.

i think also that hardware is very overrated. dont get me wrong. i love my virus. but just because some famous producer uses it doesnt mean its flat out good. my virus is only as good as the presets and my ability to use it. buying a virus wont make your tunes better. not by a long shot. the poly limit on all hardware synths is severely limiting. with software, you can keep adding more and more layers till the cow comes home. more isnt necessarily better. but the complexity of your patches can go through the roof with multiple layered softsynths. i always hit the poly limit on the virus quite early with unison on. especially with creating pads. also, zeta is seriously close to virus sounding. i only realised when i tried to make patches on the demo recently. its seriously fat and has the tightest bass of any sofysynth ive heard. i just hear the excuse that hardware is better flat out cuz it costs more or cuz loads of famous people use it. but its really not true. they are good instruments. but they have their limitations. softies have different limitations. in the right hands either of them can make incredible music.

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative on the contrary i can bosh up a very convincing supersaw using rb2k's reaktor jp8000 reaktor ensemble + vanguard + internal fruity plugs.

well, it's still far away... and it's not that minimal that almost nobody can hear it. if you have proper monitors you know that nothing can beat syths like a virus...

Software synths ( vsti's) are really good these days. The topline hardware models like the virus, nord lead, supernova etc.. are still leaps ahead of the current vsti's, but things will change over time.

btw, i read in a magazine that FM7, pro-53 and korg legacy collection replicates their hardware counterparts very good.

DJDIRTY awesome post agree 100%
Well i started out with software and yes it helped me get started but it started pissing me off and wasn't able to keep focus enough to learn much. Thats when i found out Iam more a hands on person, so I bought the
Virus C hmm yummy.
I think its best to have both software+hardware. For me I appreciate the sounds and everything more when I do them on the virus rather than a vst.

Like DjDirty said software makes you have to have a kick ass computer all the damn time, upgrading is very expensive, might as well get hardware Your paying just as much(if ur buying the software). MOst vst's eat the shit outta your cpu as well.
Im one for hardware+ a little software cuz it does have some nice advantages.

well i have some info... yes hardware can sound better but thats not what this threads really about. its about the fact that software is giving hardware a run for its money due to the complexity some vstis are being made with. check out z3ta+ and seriously play with it open up the wave shaper and make whatever you want kind of waveform times 6. play with the mod matrix and its insane. now check out for anaolgue warmth get arturia's arp2600v and minimoogv or check out their cs-80v. throw psp vintage warmer on it and antreas tube and fuck your set. seriously i spend hours getting lost in both synths from the mere programming abilties. almost to the extent i get with hardware. and really to make good sounding shit you have to learn your synth and learn it in and out or no matter what you use you wont ever quite get that sound that you hear in your head. and in all reality thats really what we all want to finally hear.

ive heard producers who use software make some insane sounding tracks. check out james holden shit and compare it to say airbase shit. in sound quality and sound depth and warmth. i gureentee you that holdens tracks will be better 100x. the funny thing is airbase shit started to not sell as good as he wanted or something and started producing cheeze completely changed the genre almost..... yes airbase has some good shit but alot of it is crap and i know it but its still catchy and good.

I'm strictly software, due to I don't save money so I spend paycheck after paycheck on software. If I did some saving a few hardware synths are cool, but I'm really experienced with software synths and they don't make a mess around my computer.

But soon enough i'll have a mix of hardware/software.

zeta. yes. that synth is unbelievable. i also recently got into the absynth 2 demo and bloody hell is that one amazing synth. i definitely want to get one of these in the future and its looking like absynth at the moment (cuz i already got a virus). apart from the fact that both sound absolutely sick, i think some people are missing the fact that the sound an instrument can make is not the only factor to take into account here. ultimately im more productive on absynth and vanguard and heck even zeta than i am on a virus. because they feel more natural to work with for me. absynth in particular is so freeform i love the way you can twist a sound into something completely alien. the layout is the epitome of logic. i love it although it is deliberately unlike any traditional synth. you dont have to be so conscious about what you are twiddling as much (as with the virus) and for that reason the end result in my case has so much more of the energy and the vitality i put into it (even though it is quite often accidental) than i can with a synth im struggling to program. but thats just the way i work. some people find programming a virus is about as instinctive as eating.

the point is it doesnt matter what instrument you use. its irrelevant that lots of other people use it. its irrelevant that its spec sheet looks good on paper. the important thing is you use an instrument which feels natural to use and the rest just happens, with time and alot of patience. and alot of fuck ups. im with the KVR general attitude on this issue. i can definitely see why some people sold all their studio gear to go all software. i can see how some people are hardware purists. but really thats just becoming fixated with a certain sound and a certain way of working. it really isnt better at all. just different. in many cases alot of VSTis that attempt to recreate hardware fail to do so because of the lack of processing power available at this time. that will change. but there are some softsynths (like absynth) which you honestly wont find anyway else. and some like zeta+ which for whatever reason just plain rocks.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle I will ignore the Powercore argument.. which isnt quite software.. we all know that.. u NEED the hardware to run it.. its like putting a hardware synth INTO the computer and calling a software..

this aint an argument too. you need hardware to run ANYTHING, including softsynths. powercore virus is different because it is specially coded for powercore DSPs, instead VSTi which are coded for intel-based processors.

quote:

u can make excellent stuff using software.. but i know there are many people that agree with me in the fact that Trance these days has become soulless.. and its has much to do with the possibility of people using VST`s and software only.. in the early days a producer was much more "skilled" than nowadays.. learning his hardware equipment to the max.. (and that is what it is... the soul, and the hard work behind the tune.. )

trance is soulless because the people making tracks are making them for money instead for the love for music. cosmic baby and humate from 1994 sound shit compared to today's scooter, but that music had SOUL, it had FEELING. the music is all about the person behind it, not the equipment, which you seem to ignore here.
you must understand the market for that music is different, and the way world works now is different. blaming VSTs for shitty music is a complete nonsense. a bad producer loaded with money is still a bad producer, but nowadays a good trancer can become well known even if he is not loaded - and it is wonderful if you ask me.

quote:

lets face it.. anyone nowadays can make some sort of trance tune.. using only presets and samples.. but. off course, making a track sounding good enough for a release is hard and demands skills.. sure does.. (if not i would have releases too ) but point is, it doesnt take as MUCH effort as before.. hence its losing its soul..

yes, everyone can make a trance tune nowadays. there is a lot of good music out there, but, the problem is that there is even more bad music, so it becomes harder and harder to find good tunes.
hell, in last two years i heard a lot of tracks which sound great - fat, tight, wide, everything. but, essentially, those tracks don't have that something that made tracks like cygnus ex - superstring classics. and those people have the hardware to do it properly. they just lack proper motive (since money is no.1) and musical theory.

quote:

Originally posted by thecYrus if you have proper monitors you know that nothing can beat syths like a virus...

I get the feeling a hell of a lot of people make judgements based on what they hear in their cheap speakers. Get a pair of expensive monitors - the difference is -huge-.

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