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Is the war in Iraq worth your life if you joined the military?

Is the war in Iraq worth your life if you joined the military?

Yes or No

Simple question
Hard to answer for some.

Hopefully this one is not a loaded question, being as how there are very few willing to be honest around here.

See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda
George W Bush



Chickenhawks:

``No, I have not urged my own children to enlist.I don't know the status of my childrens' potentially enlisting in the Guard and Reserve,`` Romney said, his voice tinged with anger.
Massachusetts residents can enlist in the National Guard up to age 39.Romney's five sons range in age from 24 to 35. Neither the Romney children nor the governor have served in the military, Romney spokeswoman Julie Teer said.
More than 1,100 guardsmen and women from Massachusetts are currently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, a guard spokeswoman said.According to federal statistics, 28 Massachusetts soldiers have been killed so far.
``I don't think you should be so `rah-rah' for a war that you aren't willing to send your own family members to,'' said Rose Gonzalez, 30, of Somerville, whose mother, a state employee, was deployed to Iraq in January.``If he thinks the war is so just and so important and we shouldn't pull out, then he should encourage his own sons to go.``
Mitt backs war, but his boys are safe at home

6 Reasons of NOT being able to join the military:

1) physically challenged

2) visually challenged

3) mentally challenged

4) drug addict

5) homosexual

6) sexual pervert

If neither of these apply then click for OFFICIAL ENLISTMENT FORM FOR THE US ARMED FORCES aka DD FORM 4/1 with instructions

Other related polls:

Troops Should be Brought Home...
I approve/disapprove the Way Pres. Bush is Handling Iraq
Can the United States establish a stable, democratic government in Iraq?
Did the Bush administration deliberately mislead the public of Saddams WMD'S?
Can the United States win the war in Iraq?
United States in Iraq Poll: Leave or stay
Don't be a lurker. Vote, it does mean something here.

As well as "Yes" and "No" you should also have put "whatever you tell me to, sir!"

Seriously tho, it depends on the spin u wanna put on the war. If you concentrate on the fact that u just freed millions from oppression then possibly the answer would be "yes" (if you gave a shit about the Iraqis of course) but if you concentrate on the war as an economic or war for Israel then you would perhaps vote "no" (unless of course you're Israeli!)

I guess it depends what you consider worth dying for (direct threat to ur country? protecting those in need of protecting? etc)

No I don't think it's worth dieing for. I would die for what I believe in, but I dont believe in the Iraq war...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley I guess it depends what you consider worth dying for (direct threat to ur country? protecting those in need of protecting? etc)

The question is self-explanatory.

But let me make it even more simpler:

Knowing the present course of events in Iraq*, would you want to lose your life there being that you joined the military voluntarily for reasons such as career advancement, college tuition or an enlistment career?

*No WMD's, Iraqi insurgency/rebellion, no government, etc.

In other words I am sure there are people in Iraq saying to themselves:

"I didn't sign up for this."
"What did I get myself into?"
"One weekend a month. my ass.":


Oh yeah, regarding your "spin" rhetoric:

I am not the one who put the spin on you or anyone else into paying for a war that netted no, I repeat, no WMD's.

Right now the ones who fell for the spin are wearing the blue dress.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 The question is self-explanatory. But let me make it even more simpler: Knowing the present course of events in Iraq*, would you want to lose your life

Ok I think that's as far as I'll go!

There is no circumstance I can think of in ANY situation EVER that I would WANT to lose my life!

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Ok I think that's as far as I'll go! There is no circumstance I can think of in ANY situation EVER that I would WANT to lose my life!

Imagine Hitler II tries to invade UK to make it into a new North Korea. Would you not risk your life trying to defend your country, and more importantly the values and so that you believe in?

CRAWFORD, Texas (CNN) -- President Bush will launch a new round of speeches Monday to rally support for the war in Iraq, advisers said, as protesters camped outside Bush's Texas home and polls showed weaker support for the two-year conflict.

Senior aides say Bush will attempt to portray the Iraq conflict in the context of long wars like World War II, which U.S. forces fought from 1941 to 1945.

They said the president also will invoke the September 11, 2001, attacks, arguing once again that the insurgents battling American troops in Iraq share the same ideology as the al Qaeda operatives who crashed hijacked jetliners into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and a Pennsylvania field.
Bush plans bid to rally Iraq support

Not like he's telling his girls to go enlist. After all he is in a PR nightmare enough as it is you'd figure he might as well bet the ranch and throw his kids in there.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew Imagine Hitler II tries to invade UK to make it into a new North Korea. Would you not risk your life trying to defend your country, and more importantly the values and so that you believe in?

Yea of course I would but I still wouldn't want to die in the process!!

Dieing for a war that is not justified is not worth it. I would only fight if we were invaded by aliens. Any other human war i don't think so because they are all done due to greed or fear.

ogvh5150 I hate telling you this but I don't think it really matters voting in your poll. I mean don't you prefer my opinion?

not mine, but if some fool wants to risk his life so that i can buy gas at a ridiculously low price, then let him.

I think you have a serious choice to make at a point typically right after high school (i had the choice with the recruiter calling me every day). The choice is either sign on the dotted line and join the army and in essense entrust your life in the decisions made from some desk thousands of miles away or go to college or work. If you signed on that dotted line you made a calculated decision to put your life at risk with possibility of death.

Sure people don't sign up to be gung ho gi joes but to get money but then there is the risk that a war may break out, which in this case it did.

I guess if there was no war the question would be is it worth hundreds of billions of dollars to have hundreds of thousands of soldiers and billions of dollars of equipment sitting around doing nothing.

So the war may not be worth a human soldiers life but that argument is nulled because the whole point of the soldier is to put their life in harm's way for whatever their superior tells them to do.

People don't want to die for something unless they truly believe in it. And, regardless of the lack of honesty in our lives even towards ourselves, I seriously doubt most Americans would be willing to sacrifice their lives for the War in Iraq. When the stakes are high, even many people who support the War will probably not want to die for it. People can bullshit themselves all they like about how noble their cause is but that bullshiting usually stops when they have everything to loose. Remember vietnam? The public was basically like, Why are we sending our sons to die? But I don't believe that time has come yet. It really depends on how long this war is going to last and how many American lives will be lost, as it's pretty obvious no one really gives a shit about how many Iraqis die. Acocrding to
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ :

Min: 23,589
Max: 26,705

That's a shitload of people.

@ Neil: Do you have the full size image of that tripy pic in your sig?

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid ogvh5150 I hate telling you this but I don't think it really matters voting in your poll. I mean don't you prefer my opinion?

That's why there's a neat invention called the reply button. It has been known to work for some. While others use it with no remorse and leave troubled statements (not you just others).

You can vote or not. Or you can write what's on your mind. It doesn't matter in the PDD forum.

You comments will be viewed.

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange not mine, but if some fool wants to risk his life so that i can buy gas at a ridiculously low price, then let him.

It is my assumption that here in the US I am paying for gas that is being used in Iraq by military personel and their vehicles.

Quite the opposite of what anyone expected for this war.

Can we do a comparison for the results of this poll (for those that voted yes) and that for the Liberal vs. Conservative poll (for those that identified themselves as Conservative?)

Quite a disparity!



"War is grand as long as it isn't me or mine going."
-Mark Twain?
(Finalist for the motto of the USA, eventually beaten out by E pluribus unum)


-N

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z @ Neil: Do you have the full size image of that tripy pic in your sig?

Prepare to make your eyes melt

Excuse the single off topic post.

quote:

Originally posted by TheNobleEu Can we do a comparison for the results of this poll (for those that voted yes) and that for the Liberal vs. Conservative poll (for those that identified themselves as Conservative?) Quite a disparity! "War is grand as long as it isn't me or mine going." -Mark Twain? (Finalist for the motto of the USA, eventually beaten out by E pluribus unum) -N

Go start one. Just double the questions and segregate them like this:

e.g.:
I am a conservative and no the war in Iraq is not worth my life if I joined the military.

I'm nonpartisan so I would have to abstain that poll.

Another off topic post: Holy crap, that is trippy!

Die for that? NO.
phuck, im hypnotized

Die for Afghanistan? HELL YES im from NYC, die for Iraq? most likely not.

I voted yes, though retired from military I am still working for the Army. You agree you pay the ultimate sacrifice by joining up in the military to defend our nation. We place you in harm's way. Units heading into a war zone are pretty well prepared not to die for their country even though they are headed into dangerous environs, but war is war and shit happens no matter how well prepared you are. You just hope you don't get killed for something stupid and avoidable instead of the unavoidable. The unavoidable circumstances, particularly IEDs, may start to look like avoidable circumstances these days after our experience with them. Ambushes are ambushes though, unexpected and sure to bring casualties, since they are initiated by the enemy on their own terms. Only avoidance is to eliminate the enemy as a threat if it's at all possible to hunt them down and kill them at a point in time so they don't have the means to launch an attack.


[[[smoke]]]

quote:

Originally posted by smokeape I voted yes, though retired from military I am still working for the Army. You agree you pay the ultimate sacrifice by joining up in the military to defend our nation.

Sorry, but this is an idiotic and very dangerous attitude.

It's nonsense masquerading mostly as ill-informed patriotism, and similar mindlessness is getting a lot of destitute, under-educated southern US males uselessly killed because they don't know any better.

The time of automaton soldiers being used as political tools by self-interested bureaucrats is passing quickly, as a direct result of the very bad experiences of said soldiers and their families. Heard about this woman chasing Bush around for a face-to-face talk after her son was killed in-country? See the 'evolution of patriotism' in that woman in Moore's Fahrenheit 9-11, after she had her son killed?

Suddenly war and patriotism isn't so grand when it's your children that are being blown up and/or approaching the age of 18, hmm?

The USA is having a very serious personnel crisis, where it cannot recruit infantry fast enough to replace losses and rotated forces, and those it is recruiting are woefully undertrained and not competent for the combat arms roles they are being forced into. The result is that trained and experienced soldiers are being forced to pull multiple tours of duty with little rest, and it's casuing psychoses in more than a few. The reserves are also already overtaxed.

Most semi-educated people signing up for the army are doing so for the perks -- they want the scholarships/promised money for college, they want the practical training in life and professional skills that will help them seek better lives outside the army, and/or they want the discipline and regimented lifestyles for the betterment of their characters and/or for the prestige of their resumes. No small number sign up to simply get a better standard of living than the destitution they face at home. But only the truly stupid sign up today with the intention of "dying for one's country," and when you see such a person you better damn well hope they aren't put in your trench!

We don't live in a time anymore when soldiers (other than US Marines) are going to jump into the meatgrinder because they're ordered to do so. It is not realistic to expect people to sign their name on the recruitment forms 'to die for a pointless cause to be determined at a later date.' To expect them to is asinine.

The army need intelligent, self-confident, and dynamic individuals that can and will develop advanced problem solving and management skills that will help them to accomplish their missions *by staying alive.* Unfortunately such people usually end up in exclusive and elitist special forces units. But this same attitude needs to be instilled in all line infantry as well, not just the 75th Rangers, or 10th Mountain, or whoever. Intelligent soldiers win the day, not asshole patriots trained to be unthinking cannon fodder, going wherever and doing whatever they're told.

People such as you need to go look up what happened to the central authority when the legions of Rome were treated as fodder and they started to think better of it.

Soldiers sign up to be soldiers; their business is killing and fighting. Their business is not fighting for reasons or against people that are not legitmate threats. If you don't or can't know the difference, you have no business carrying a rifle.

Take thee to the galley, thine MOS be "navy cook."

-N

quote:

Originally posted by TheNobleEu Soldiers sign up to be soldiers; their business is killing and fighting. Their business is not fighting for reasons or against people that are not legitmate threats. If you don't or can't know the difference, you have no business carrying a rifle. -N

Soldiers can not pick and choose which battle they will be a part of. They may have an opinion if the war is just or not but really at the end of the day it isn't them who decide where to go, it is the commanders of this country. If they can not accept that then they have no part of joining the military for the "free money".

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