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PItch Bending on Turntables

Hi guys,

I'm not sure if i'm bending the pitch right, to line up my beats on turntables. (once i've got the pitch spot on)

I usually just hold the vinyl lightly, to slow it down for a sec. and if i want to speed it up, i just touch it, and move it forwards a little.

I get the feeling i'm not doing it right, because it takes me a while this way.

is it better if i just use the pitch control, and move it up or down, temporarily?

Yes! Although I will tell you right now pushing and dragging your finger are faster, but they definitely don't sound as good, and you won't improve your beatmatching much that way.
If you learn to ride the pitch fader you really don't even have to match your tracks before you mix them. The reason is because most people who pitch bend by touching the record or the platter aim to have their beatmatch as tight as possible before mixing in. On the other hand, people who ride the pitch don't give a damn because they know the true skill is correcting the pitch the whole way through without anyone on the foor noticing.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild Yes! Although I will tell you right now pushing and dragging your finger are faster, but they definitely don't sound as good, and you won't improve your beatmatching much that way. If you learn to ride the pitch fader you really don't even have to match your tracks before you mix them. The reason is because most people who pitch bend by touching the record or the platter aim to have their beatmatch as tight as possible before mixing in. On the other hand, people who ride the pitch don't give a damn because they know the true skill is correcting the pitch the whole way through without anyone on the foor noticing.

great!

thanks!

i think i'll change my habits a little. Becasue what i normally do is get the pitch as spot on as i can, and then try to phrase match...

I'll try a little change and mix and ride the pitch, having phrase matched first.

thanks heaps.

omg...


pitch bending is true skill? well if u do 20 sec transitions with no eq'ing... then i guess...

i dont know about u guys, but i want my tracks to be perfectly beatmatched before i mix them... so i can make a 2-3 minute transition, while playing with eqs or adding effects, etc.

no matter how good u are at pitch bending it won't sound smooth... ofcourse with all the noise and distortion and heavy bass the floor will not notice it, but what if you recording a cd? or playing on a radio?

all i can say, is... Dont look for an easy way out, learn to beatmatch your tracks perfetly within 20-30 seconds and you wont ever need to spend any extra effort on pitch bending.


P.S. Is it just me who always thought that Armin's, Tiestos, PvDs, etc... live performance SUCKED? the beats always going off, at least A LITTLE BIT...I've always enjoyed Sander K's performance tho...

I guess you've haven't seen many professional DJs mix. All of the really good DJs I've seen cue their tracks on phrase then start mixing while they beatmatch. Nobody ever said anything about 20 second mixes or not using EQs you made that assumption yourself. Just because YOU can't ride the pitch correctly doesn't mean others can't. Besides once you drop it and bring it in it should only take maybe 10 seconds before you have it locked.
One of the best Techno DJs I've seen does this. He will pull out a record from his bag and cue it with the channel fader open, drop it knowing it isn't beatmatched and everyone can hear if it's off, but you know what it's NEVER off. That's riding the pitch for you. Not having to beatmatch before hand opens up time for you to program your set, scratch, beatjuggle, loop, and screw around with EFX.

You are right though I don't like Armin, Tiestio, or PVD, but Sander K is pretty cool. I'm actually listening to The Fruit right now.



About the what if you're doing a mix for a CD question.
Well in that case I'll cut down from 20 track to about 15 tracks for the hour, and I'll multitrack my scratches to make sure everything is sharp. But CDs are very different from live preformances.

quote:

Originally posted by -AbsurD- i dont know about u guys, but i want my tracks to be perfectly beatmatched before i mix them... so i can make a 2-3 minute transition

it's impossible to have 2 tracks so perfectly beatmatched that they require no correction whatsoever for 2+ minutes.

i think what abhay and zild are getting at is ways of correcting, in which case it is definitely better to ride the pitch than it is to speed up / slow down the vinyl by touching it.

hmm


i have a lot of problem pitch bending, to a little faster...

i always push the vinyl too hard.... i mean isn't there any other way of doing it? i always have to slow the pitch down, by touching the vinyl instead. it'd be much more simpler if i just sped it up.

that's the main thing i wanna get at... like the actual processs itself.

is it better if i grab the little thing that goes through the hole in the centre of the vinyl, and twist that? as i've seen one DJ do in a club>>?

Yeah you can twist the spindle, but like I said it's better to just push the pitch fader back and forth a little bit instead of pushing or twisting anything. I still twist the spindle sometimes out of habit.

isnt ur equing a little awkward keeping 1 hand on the turntable the whole time zild? i cant help but wonder how a mix can sound very smooth if u are not using both hands on the mixer. usually if u want a smooth blend you will be working 1 eq down and the other eq up at the same time.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild I guess you've haven't seen many professional DJs mix. All of the really good DJs I've seen cue their tracks on phrase then start mixing while they beatmatch. Nobody ever said anything about 20 second mixes or not using EQs you made that assumption yourself. Just because YOU can't ride the pitch correctly doesn't mean others can't. Besides once you drop it and bring it in it should only take maybe 10 seconds before you have it locked. One of the best Techno DJs I've seen does this. He will pull out a record from his bag and cue it with the channel fader open, drop it knowing it isn't beatmatched and everyone can hear if it's off, but you know what it's NEVER off. That's riding the pitch for you. Not having to beatmatch before hand opens up time for you to program your set, scratch, beatjuggle, loop, and screw around with EFX. You are right though I don't like Armin, Tiestio, or PVD, but Sander K is pretty cool. I'm actually listening to The Fruit right now. About the what if you're doing a mix for a CD question. Well in that case I'll cut down from 20 track to about 15 tracks for the hour, and I'll multitrack my scratches to make sure everything is sharp. But CDs are very different from live preformances.

This is also a great skill to have, but I would prefer a combo of both...I.E. matching it as well as possible before hand then pitch bending to keep it on.

I've seen Steve Lawler drop a track in with the fader all the way up and not even touch the platter/pitch during the mix...that is some fucking good beatmatching...

quote:

Originally posted by Zild I guess you've haven't seen many professional DJs mix. All of the really good DJs I've seen cue their tracks on phrase then start mixing while they beatmatch. Nobody ever said anything about 20 second mixes or not using EQs you made that assumption yourself. Just because YOU can't ride the pitch correctly doesn't mean others can't. Besides once you drop it and bring it in it should only take maybe 10 seconds before you have it locked. One of the best Techno DJs I've seen does this. He will pull out a record from his bag and cue it with the channel fader open, drop it knowing it isn't beatmatched and everyone can hear if it's off, but you know what it's NEVER off. That's riding the pitch for you. Not having to beatmatch before hand opens up time for you to program your set, scratch, beatjuggle, loop, and screw around with EFX. You are right though I don't like Armin, Tiestio, or PVD, but Sander K is pretty cool. I'm actually listening to The Fruit right now. About the what if you're doing a mix for a CD question. Well in that case I'll cut down from 20 track to about 15 tracks for the hour, and I'll multitrack my scratches to make sure everything is sharp. But CDs are very different from live preformances.

faster stuff is better to ride, i guess... slower stuff...(prog/breaks etc.) is better to beatmatch first...IMO... I used to ride the pitch before, and i did it on my first ever set of NUMARKs that sucked... I just never liked it. Im a perfectionist when it comes to mixing and riding is not perfect.

quote:

Originally posted by Tegu it's impossible to have 2 tracks so perfectly beatmatched that they require no correction whatsoever for 2+ minutes. i think what abhay and zild are getting at is ways of correcting, in which case it is definitely better to ride the pitch than it is to speed up / slow down the vinyl by touching it.

lol...have you tried mixing yet? or you are just one of those who tries to look cool on forums?

IT IS possible to perfectly beatmatch.

lol

depends on what u play
perfectly matching something at 145+bpm is hard as

quote:

Originally posted by -AbsurD- lol...have you tried mixing yet? or you are just one of those who tries to look cool on forums? IT IS possible to perfectly beatmatch. lol

oh i see, you're a professional, and you must not have noticed the blatant irony of your post.

suck my balls.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis86 I've seen Steve Lawler drop a track in with the fader all the way up and not even touch the platter/pitch during the mix...that is some fucking good beatmatching...

But he must of beatmacthed it before.. otherwise.. it doesnt make sense..

quote:

Originally posted by -AbsurD- lol...have you tried mixing yet? or you are just one of those who tries to look cool on forums? IT IS possible to perfectly beatmatch. lol

No it's not actually. Because the perfect pair of turntables dont exists. there are millions of factors throughout an infinity that could cause 2 tracks to go out of sync.

quote:

Originally posted by -AbsurD- lol...have you tried mixing yet? or you are just one of those who tries to look cool on forums? IT IS possible to perfectly beatmatch. lol

i guess that aplies to you, since you should know that it is in fact impossible to beatmatch so that it never goes out of synch. even on cdplayers.


i prefer to ride the pitch in the headphones so i can focus on eq fx etc during the mix. but i can do both pretty good i guess

guys, its possible, get over it, its simple math, you CAN do it, it might be hard to get it exactly perfect, but u can do it, end of story, stop telling him he's wrong

EDIT: yes there are a lot of factors involved though

i never said that it will NEVER go off... he said that its impossible to beatmatch so the tracks won't go off within 2-3 minutes...

Im saying it is not.

quote:

Originally posted by dj jasonF i guess that aplies to you, since you should know that it is in fact impossible to beatmatch so that it never goes out of synch. even on cdplayers. i prefer to ride the pitch in the headphones so i can focus on eq fx etc during the mix. but i can do both pretty good i guess

w/e

this is a good thread/discussion

very educational for me

thanks
bisco

Never had a problem with EQing and riding the pitch.

When you do it enough, you get into a zone (can't think of a better way to describe it) that's a bit like bullet time in the matrix.
You pay attention to your mix, you adjust if and when you need to and you eq. If you are confident then neither should stress you out as you will do what you need to do and the more you practice DJing the more absurd you will see this thread discussion.

If you EQ your mixes well then there is nothing that's going to happen in a transition that wont allow for a few seconds pitch correction and you can resume once it's done.

I understand it from a younger DJs point of view because when you start out, a mix almost feels like a race against time. This will pass the more you practice.

It takes a while to get from "Fucking hell the record is nearly finished Shiiiiiiiit!" to "Oh look it's nearly finished best sort it then".

Riding the pitch is good as it does allow to make smoother corrections even if it might take a little longer to learn. But then not even all of the top jocks do it so you just got to figure out what works best for you.

When it comes to spinning there are no short cuts, you have to pay your dues and learn from your mistakes. This applies to playing at home as well as playing in clubs.

Edit - with regards to matching perfectly, it can be done but not always. Depends on the quality of the vinyl cut and the position of the centre hole more often. If you have a hole in a record that's slightly off centre you will always have to fight the pitch as the tune has not got an even speed. Sometimes you will get two good records and match it perfectly and you can pretty much sit back and relax and do the rest with the mixer.

People are also obsessed with long mixes, sometimes it's not the tonic. You will get people on the dance floor bored and you need to drop things in quickly to pick up pace and energy. Sometimes it's not enough to rely on the energy of the record alone, you have to help it along. A skill that warm up DJs in particular need to focus on as you don't always get to play the tracks that can excite people if you just mix.

Cheers
Nem

you are right but this only aplies to when you want to bring in the bass slowly. but when there is a 1 bar break and you want to switch the low eqs there fast you cant do it if you have to ride the pitch, its gonna suck bad.. there you go.. you just lost a pretty good chance to make a good transision... cuz you know that these two tracks arent good for smooth bass switching.. the kick desapears if you do that..

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Never had a problem with EQing and riding the pitch. When you do it enough, you get into a zone (can't think of a better way to describe it) that's a bit like bullet time in the matrix. You pay attention to your mix, you adjust if and when you need to and you eq. If you are confident then neither should stress you out as you will do what you need to do and the more you practice DJing the more absurd you will see this thread discussion. If you EQ your mixes well then there is nothing that's going to happen in a transition that wont allow for a few seconds pitch correction and you can resume once it's done. I understand it from a younger DJs point of view because when you start out, a mix almost feels like a race against time. This will pass the more you practice. It takes a while to get from "Fucking hell the record is nearly finished Shiiiiiiiit!" to "Oh look it's nearly finished best sort it then". Riding the pitch is good as it does allow to make smoother corrections even if it might take a little longer to learn. But then not even all of the top jocks do it so you just got to figure out what works best for you. When it comes to spinning there are no short cuts, you have to pay your dues and learn from your mistakes. This applies to playing at home as well as playing in clubs. Edit - with regards to matching perfectly, it can be done but not always. Depends on the quality of the vinyl cut and the position of the centre hole more often. If you have a hole in a record that's slightly off centre you will always have to fight the pitch as the tune has not got an even speed. Sometimes you will get two good records and match it perfectly and you can pretty much sit back and relax and do the rest with the mixer. People are also obsessed with long mixes, sometimes it's not the tonic. You will get people on the dance floor bored and you need to drop things in quickly to pick up pace and energy. Sometimes it's not enough to rely on the energy of the record alone, you have to help it along. A skill that warm up DJs in particular need to focus on as you don't always get to play the tracks that can excite people if you just mix. Cheers Nem

great read there, your right, there really is no rights and wrongs when it comes to mixing, just do what you want, if you know your music then you will begin to try new ways (as certain tracks can be mixed differently, depending on the way the track is), you just gotta experiment with what feels good with you, at the end of the day you know if you can mix or not, but it doesnt matter, there really is no rules.

max

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 When you do it enough, you get into a zone (can't think of a better way to describe it) that's a bit like bullet time in the matrix. You pay attention to your mix, you adjust if and when you need to and you eq. I understand it from a younger DJs point of view because when you start out, a mix almost feels like a race against time. This will pass the more you practice.

he he he...

classic

makes me feel like i'm on the right path, and that i'm not just a fuck up.

tbh, i never ride pitch, unless i have to. For me riding a pitch is only something i do when i fuck up....

i always saw it as an error, or a mistake. Because i always try to get the perfect match before mixing in. Sorry to anyone who does that when they mix.

if i have to ride pitch, i'm dissapointed. but then again, my mixes are usually only 30 seconds - 1m:30seconds. (YES, the longer it is, the more likely i am to adjust pitch).

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