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Another sign that Toronto's tourism is finished

Planet Hollywood is closed. That place used to be teaming with american tourists.

As if the loss of theatre, nightlife and big festivals werent telling enough, planet hollywood in my opinion shows how lost we are on the world tourism stage.

Whats to blame?

4 things in my opinion:

1) Loss of nightlife. I rememeber in the 90s there used to be thousands of americans for just one massive rave. Well the government took care of that didnt they? Smoking bans dont help either.

2) SARS - Thanks to CNN for that one

3) Our shit talking government - you dont think americans get offended when our prime minister and mayor talk shit about americans? Think again


4) high dollar. Since toronto doesnt have much to offer anymore in the first place, why come here when it's more expensive now than in the US? I find american travel a bargain now with the high dollar which means americans must find it ridiculously expensive. An interesting sidenote is that many prices are only slightly lower than here but what makes a huge difference when i calculate prices is the difference in sales tax.


What would i do if i ran things?:

1) make it easier for nightlife to thrive once again in toronto. drop the smoking laws, extend drinking hours, and allow permits for festivals and raves again as we used to. Id amend bylaws in certain neighbourhoods to accomodate for noise like what originally happened in the entertainment district when that area was a direlect wasteland. Funny how after nightlife spurred development there they are now trying to kill the golden goose. Id find away to move the squatters off toronto island and make the portlands into a huge multi-use entertainment zone with NO RESIDENTIAL DDEVELOPMENT ALLOWED. Any residential development nearby would be forced to sign a "noise clause" understanding that there will be noise eminating from this district and that they better live with it or not move in.

2) put together a GOOD tourism package. Not a campaign with polar bears and the CN tower and the token minorities showing how wonderfully multicultural we are. Tourists dont care about that stuff. Id highlight the obvious like the CN tower but then id heavily promote toronto as a party spot with more lenient laws than the US, better shopping, and great theatre and authentic food. This is what toronto USED to be known as. Of course we wouldnt be able to promote these things till we win them back.

3) easier sales tax rebate -- the way it is now is too complicated. Id have businesses offer the rebate forms right on the spot with instructions on how to claim the rebate at the border. Right now its up to you to know which is exempt and what is not and most people dont even know they can get a rebate. In europe and argentina the shops that offer tax free have a tax free sign right on their window.


Toronto is hurting and i put the blame directly on politicians who seem to be doing everything they can to kill tourism. Well guess what? its working.

yeah i heard, thats why we're having the first lord of the rings theatre show?? to try and get the tourism back into to canada/toronto.

we need more than just theatre. We need to change the way this city thinks.

even some of my american friends dont come here as much anymore.

They site the lack of good parties and the high dollar as reasons.

Hey, you still have The Hockey Hall of Fame - which of course belongs in the Mecka of Hockey, Montreal...so while you're still at it, please close HHoF down as well. I'm sure the city and the people of Montreal will be more than happy to take it over

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 we need more than just theatre. We need to change the way this city thinks. even some of my american friends dont come here as much anymore. They site the lack of good parties and the high dollar as reasons.

The strong dollar is exactly whats right with this country. You cannot lump that in with the town's mentality. Completely seperate issue.

I do wish there was more to do in this city as well. It seems like other than bars, clubs and places to eat, there really isn't much to do. Hence why I spend so much time chillin with friends. There are some festivals in the summer, but if you are not ethnically adventurous, you are stuck.

what im saying is that tourists would still come even with the high dollar if we had something to offer. But we dont anymore.

As for the ethnic festivals. The only reason politicians support those is because if they were against them people would accuse them of everything under the sun from racism to homophobia.

Imagine if straight white guys had parties where they exposed themselves on the street or shot each other at parades? It would be game over.

Im not against gay pride or caribana at all. Im just saying that because they are special interests they get left alone. Which is a sad commentary on the double standard that exists in 2006.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 what im saying is that tourists would still come even with the high dollar if we had something to offer. But we dont anymore. As for the ethnic festivals. The only reason politicians support those is because if they were against them people would accuse them of everything under the sun from racism to homophobia. Imagine if straight white guys had parties where they exposed themselves on the street or shot each other at parades? It would be game over. Im not against gay pride or caribana at all. Im just saying that because they are special interests they get left alone. Which is a sad commentary on the double standard that exists in 2006.

Yes but being a straight white guy, what exactly are you celebrating and making people aware of? These festivals have themes, and a reason for existing. I do agree that there are some gross double standards which take place, such as the nudity at gay pride, but the good of these events far outweighs the bad, and that is why the are kept around.

I do not go to Caribana, but I do see it as an important part of the Toronto/Canadian culture.

BTW - I never saw the appeal of Planet Hollywood. Cash grab in the first place if you ask me.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko Yes but being a straight white guy, what exactly are you celebrating and making people aware of? These festivals have themes, and a reason for existing. I do agree that there are some gross double standards which take place, such as the nudity at gay pride, but the good of these events far outweighs the bad, and that is why the are kept around. I do not go to Caribana, but I do see it as an important part of the Toronto/Canadian culture. BTW - I never saw the appeal of Planet Hollywood. Cash grab in the first place if you ask me.

Does a celebration have to have a purpose? Whatever happened to just celebrating for the sake of celebrating?

The good outweighs the bad at most gatherings yet our city/province/country makes it very difficult for them to happen. Just look at how WEMF and Wakestock were treated last year. If WEMF had been a gay pride event the premier probably would have been there dancing his ass off with the media in tow.

And yes planet hollywood was a waste of money but americans loved to waste their money there. It's demise is a another sign that americans dont come here anymore.

I think PLanet Hollywood died because the food sucked. I went there once and that was it for me.

quote:

Originally posted by itikia I think PLanet Hollywood died because the food sucked. I went there once and that was it for me.

no doubt it sucked. As does hard rock. Yet every american tourist from the midwest that came to town could usually be spotted at either place.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Does a celebration have to have a purpose? Whatever happened to just celebrating for the sake of celebrating? The good outweighs the bad at most gatherings yet our city/province/country makes it very difficult for them to happen. Just look at how WEMF and Wakestock were treated last year. If WEMF had been a gay pride event the premier probably would have been there dancing his ass off with the media in tow. And yes planet hollywood was a waste of money but americans loved to waste their money there. It's demise is a another sign that americans dont come here anymore.

Yeah festivals usually do have a point! What celebrations do you know of, that are just done for the hell of it? People need a prupose to unite around, and celebrate together, so they feel like they are part of something. They want to feel like they belong, and can celebrate that togetherness.

And at least some festivals servive. It seems like you are asking for uniform rules and attitudes, which in a perfect world would be great. But to me, it seems as if that was applied, all celebrations would be shut down.

Honestly you cannot compare the scale of WEMF and Caribana. 5000 people over 3 days, vs 1million+ on one day!

we used to have raves at least once a month with 20,000 people or more similar to creamfields etc.... we used to have huge parties at the docks as well.

Wakestock was huge until politicians put the damper on it and turned it into the watered down joke that it was last summer.

There never used to be ethnic or political reasons. Just fun and music.

gay pride wasnt always so big. I suspect part of the reason it has caught on with mainstream is because most other outlets have been shut down so its the one venue a year where people can let loose since politicians wont dare touch it.

i honestly think our uptight laws are most of the reason why torontonians themselves are uptight.

are the tourism stats out yet for 2005?

in 2004 only 16% of all toronto tourists were americans and and a big chunk of them came to this city to watch their yankees spank the blue jays several weekends of the year...highly doubt planet hollywood closing will affect our toursim very much....

quote:

Originally posted by torontobarfly are the tourism stats out yet for 2005? in 2004 only 16% of all toronto tourists were americans and and a big chunk of them came to this city to watch their yankees spank the blue jays several weekends of the year...highly doubt planet hollywood closing will affect our toursim very much....

im not saying it's closing will affect tourism... im saying lack of tourism has affected it. Along with everything else.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 im not saying it's closing will affect tourism... im saying lack of tourism has affected it. Along with everything else.

but is tourism up or down? thats why i was asking for the stats...you cant just say tourism is down without backing it up...in 2004 tourism was up, i havent seen any stats yet for 2005...lots of other businesses close to planet hollywood are doing quite well...does tourism have anything to do with it or has the place just worn out its welcome...

I would never come to Toronto as a tourist, the city is a shit hole, canada has way more to offer tourists (montreal, vancouver, vancouver island etc...). Getting around TO is a bitch, and besides it has one of the worst airports ever, esp if youre not flying air canada. Plus the recent gun crime increase im sure has scared a few people away.

the only decent thing in the area is niagara falls.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 ... Imagine if straight white guys had parties where they exposed themselves on the street or shot each other at parades? It would be game over. Im not against gay pride or caribana at all. Im just saying that because they are special interests they get left alone. Which is a sad commentary on the double standard that exists in 2006.

Don't even bring up Pride...it's a slam-dunk boon to the city and ALL people here should at the very least appreciate that fact.

It's not a double standard...it's a virtually hassle-free money maker for the city and THAT is a huge reason why it's left alone.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 ... gay pride wasnt always so big. I suspect part of the reason it has caught on with mainstream is because most other outlets have been shut down so its the one venue a year where people can let loose since politicians wont dare touch it. i honestly think our uptight laws are most of the reason why torontonians themselves are uptight.

Pride became big in part because other attractions are gone? Where is the logic in that? To what past events were there where people "let loose" where they now only do so at Pride?

I suppose that the very nature of it being inclusive, hassle-free, that is has progressively become better organized/promted, and that society has become more and more tolerant are all secondary to other attractions being gone?

There is *no doubt* a political benefit enjoyed by the gay community...but to suggest it's a major reason for Pride being "left alone" is to also ignore the very substantial tourism and revenue benefits it provides.

Forget Pride...how many gay people actually MOVE INTO THE CITY because of the environment that is promoted and protected here and which is internationally promoted via Pride week? That's not just tourism dollars...that's potentially years, or a lifetime, of tax revenue for the city, province and even the country! Look at the big picture...

IMHO, the death of a shithole like Planet Hollywood and the death of the rave scene are not an indication of the state of Toronto's tourism. Corporate conventions/trade shows alone probably bring in 100 times the money the rave scene ever did. Hasn't Planet Hollywood been losing money all over the place, not just here?

tourism is down... no doubt about it. Maybe 05 stats will show that its up a bit or down a bit but overall its down significantly since the 90s for all the reasons i listed above.

The 90s had a completely different kind of government (provicially and municipally) and a completely different way of thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT Don't even bring up Pride...it's a slam-dunk boon to the city and ALL people here should at the very least appreciate that fact. It's not a double standard...it's a virtually hassle-free money maker for the city and THAT is a huge reason why it's left alone. Pride became big in part because other attractions are gone? Where is the logic in that? To what past events were there where people "let loose" where they now only do so at Pride? I suppose that the very nature of it being inclusive, hassle-free, that is has progressively become better organized/promted, and that society has become more and more tolerant are all secondary to other attractions being gone? There is *no doubt* a political benefit enjoyed by the gay community...but to suggest it's a major reason for Pride being "left alone" is to also ignore the very substantial tourism and revenue benefits it provides. Forget Pride...how many gay people actually MOVE INTO THE CITY because of the environment that is promoted and protected here and which is internationally promoted via Pride week? That's not just tourism dollars...that's potentially years, or a lifetime, of tax revenue for the city, province and even the country! Look at the big picture... IMHO, the death of a shithole like Planet Hollywood and the death of the rave scene are not an indication of the state of Toronto's tourism. Corporate conventions/trade shows alone probably bring in 100 times the money the rave scene ever did. Hasn't Planet Hollywood been losing money all over the place, not just here?

Well you even admitted that pride enjoys special status. And im glad the pride parties happen every year. Im just upset that the same considerations cant be made for all other events. This city stifles fun at every corner unless a special interest is involved and thats WRONG

raves and such were just as hassle free until some idiot in the media decided they would make it that week's expos�. But it's easy for politicians to be the "saviours" of suburban white kids from evil because it's politically expedient, there are no accusations of racism etc, and soccer moms feel good knowing that their politician is doing something

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 tourism is down... no doubt about it. Maybe 05 stats will show that its up a bit or down a bit but overall its down significantly since the 90s for all the reasons i listed above. The 90s had a completely different kind of government (provicially and municipally) and a completely different way of thinking.

how did we suddenly get into the 90's,lol....i was asking about 05 stats which you say are down, no doubt about it, but you also say maybe they're up?? yer losing me here...

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 left alone.

left alone?

Pride most certainly does not get
'left alone' the commitee fights year long to get the funding and permits to make this event happen as well as keep it free.
and even when it does go off. the bars and clubs get harrassed by the police and alcohol and gaming officers more so on pride saturday than they do any other day of the year.

quote:

Originally posted by Halycon left alone? Pride most certainly does not get 'left alone' the commitee fights year long to get the funding and permits to make this event happen as well as keep it free. and even when it does go off. the bars and clubs get harrassed by the police and alcohol and gaming officers more so on pride saturday than they do any other day of the year.

thats just sad..

i wish toronto would get the pickle out of its ass (yeah its a bad metaphor for this topic but it had to be said LOL)

I'm all for giving the benefit of the doubt to other events...but Pride has a proven track record, so I think it deserves the status it currently enjoys.

If the city is unwilling to give that chance to other events, that's not necessarily a double standard...Pride has a proven track record of being hassle-free and of being fairly self-sufficient. Fault the city for now being overly strict...but don't call it a double standard.

Is it a double standard that Guv operates trouble-free but good luck to anyone else trying to start up a super club? I don't think so. When you "change the rules", the status quo often gets left alone because there is little justification for doing otherwise. Allegation of police palm-greasing aside, Guv is not a "special interest" group.

i.e. it's one thing to withold things in the present and future...quite another to take away what already exists.

I'm not disagreeing with you that the city needs to be better promoted...I just don't think it's a case of double standards that favour special interest groups.

dont tell me that years ago before gay pride was mainstream that when they tried to shut down various events it wasnt almost political suicide.

politicians wont go near it now. Sure they may over regulate the hell out of it. But this is canada, its what we do best. But they will never ban it like they have with many other events.

The city is unwilling to give a chance to other events because we are an uptight overly conservative bunch of nimrods who like to think we are liberal thinking but really arent.

The government shouldnt even be in the business of deciding which events are good and which arent. They should only make sure that the event meets fire code etc. The end.

I hate how our government has become the ultimate decider of cultural event, festival, radio and tv station formats etc...

its such bullcrap

sure give a permit to a stones concert because "we like the rolling stones" but try to have a huge rave there and it would be game over.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 we used to have raves at least once a month with 20,000 people or more similar to creamfields etc.... we used to have huge parties at the docks as well. Wakestock was huge until politicians put the damper on it and turned it into the watered down joke that it was last summer. There never used to be ethnic or political reasons. Just fun and music.

Raves have a purpose to. They are celebrating MUSIC!

Every fesitival has a theme and focal point. Otherwise its just a bunch of poeple standing around.

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