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Immigrants and having rights

so yea there was a big protest at bayfront park yesterday about immigrants who happen to make it over here from cuba or whatever and having automatic rights. i'm kinda mixed about it. i mean, if u come over here on a raft, learn the language and get a fucking job and pay taxes, then i don't give a shit what u do. but i can't stand the ones who have been living here forever and still don't speak english or work or anything...i mean, i can't just go over to japan and demand that i be a citizen and have rights over there just because i got there. ok so i know it's a little different but still...

anyway, they were protesting and chanting some shit in spanish and i was thinking, "uhh...nice job idiots..we don't understand what you're saying. great protest! u guys really got your point across to the americans."

ive heard that americans will become a minority in their own country in something like 20 years..

Well... what happened to the idea that the US is a "melting pot"?

If you demand that people adjust to your culture, it's no longer a "melting pot", but rather a specific culture, Anglo-Saxon in this case. So let's stop pretending that America is a "melting pot", it's really not, outside of the big cities. Or, if you want a melting pot, then celebrate the diversity and immigrants.

But you can't have your cake and eat it too.

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Originally posted by eye_03 ive heard that americans will become a minority in their own country in something like 20 years..

that does not compute

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd Well... what happened to the idea that the US is a "melting pot"? If you demand that people adjust to your culture, it's no longer a "melting pot", but rather a specific culture, Anglo-Saxon in this case. So let's stop pretending that America is a "melting pot", it's really not, outside of the big cities. Or, if you want a melting pot, then celebrate the diversity and immigrants. But you can't have your cake and eat it too.

there never was a melting pot in america just look at all those china towns, little italies etc.

well it seems to me like we (in U.S.) are the only country to go to where you don't have to adjust to our "culture".

i lived in japan for 2 years during high school and it never once occurred to me that everyone needed to speak my language and cater to my needs. i learned what i could from the language and tried to blend...

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Originally posted by Slylee well it seems to me like we (in U.S.) are the only country to go to where you don't have to adjust to our "culture".

canada

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Originally posted by RapidFire canada

good point. sorry.

i always forget about u guys up there.


anyone ever see/hear that dennis leary stand up where he makes fun of canadians?

he's like, "wtf is up with canadians man? i dont' fucking trust them, they're too fucking quiet and nice up there!"

quote:

Originally posted by RapidFire canada

probably even more so than the US.

I'm just saying, it's so ridiculous for the US to start a debate on immigration, when most Americans beat themselves on the chests about how they are the "land of immigrants" etc.

Canada is actually a far more diverse country, with more immigrants.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd Well... what happened to the idea that the US is a "melting pot"? If you demand that people adjust to your culture, it's no longer a "melting pot", but rather a specific culture, Anglo-Saxon in this case. So let's stop pretending that America is a "melting pot", it's really not, outside of the big cities. Or, if you want a melting pot, then celebrate the diversity and immigrants. But you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Learning to speak English isn't encroaching on someone's culture. If one was going to immigrate to another country for whatever, at LEAST learn the language. When I was working at a Target, you have no idea how many times people came up to me expecting ME to speak Spanish. Sorry buddy, if you've lived here long enough to hold a job AND frequently shop at a Target...you can learn some god damn English.

Oh man, this reminds me of the time I was in jury duty and this Korean guy tried to get out of it saying he doesn't understand English that well. The judge asked how long he's been in America, he said 14 years lol. No way you've held a job, registered to vote, got a drivers license and have been living here for 14 years and can't fully grasp the English language. The judge made him sit throughout the entire jury selection with a translator lol.

Re: Immigrants and having rights

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee i mean, if u come over here on a raft, learn the language and get a fucking job and pay taxes, then i don't give a shit what u do. but i can't stand the ones who have been living here forever and still don't speak english or work or anything...

If the government didn't label them as illegal immigrants, and they had to live a somewhat "underground" life, then they could blend more easily. As far as I know, this is not what happens, although I'm not there and I can't have a better idea of what the situation is like.

As for the melting pot theory, I find it strange as well: why is it that ethnic groups in the US look almost like castes to us foreigners? At least, from a Brazilian perspective, this is somewhat strange. It seems like there's a distinct "black culture", a distinct "white culture", a distinct "Asian culture", a distinct "Hispanic culture", a distinct "Native American culture"... and crossing these barriers may lead to awkward results, such as the existence of labels such as wiggers and wapanese.

Finally, Slylee, the approach taken by the Japanese government cannot be compared to that of the American society. Japan ignores the existence of different groups within their territory, so it's only natural that you had to learn their language.

I'd like to write a gigantic post... I'm gonna do this later at night.

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Originally posted by dj_bas Learning to speak English isn't encroaching on someone's culture. If one was going to immigrate to another country for whatever, at LEAST learn the language. When I was working at a Target, you have no idea how many times people came up to me expecting ME to speak Spanish. Sorry buddy, if you've lived here long enough to hold a job AND frequently shop at a Target...you can learn some god damn English.

They thought you spoke spanish because you're brown...

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Originally posted by RapidFire canada

and mannnnnnnnnnnny other countries.


I for one living in France live in a predominently turkish area. I love it.
The grocery store where I do most of my shopping has everything in turkish so I sometimes have to guess what the products are but for the most part I have it quite well figured out. Perhaps these people aren't integrated ( they barely speak french actually ) but I don't care. They are working honestly so good for them!

Look around the world and everywhere there are little foreign colonies inside all the big cities.

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Originally posted by dj_bas Oh man, this reminds me of the time I was in jury duty and this Korean guy tried to get out of it saying he doesn't understand English that well. The judge asked how long he's been in America, he said 14 years lol. No way you've held a job, registered to vote, got a drivers license and have been living here for 14 years and can't fully grasp the English language. The judge made him sit throughout the entire jury selection with a translator lol.

i've lived here for almost 17 years now and while English could easily be my first language, my mother still has trouble with it. It's a lot harder to learn the language when you're older and you're used to speaking/thinking in a one particular language.

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH i've lived here for almost 17 years now and while English could easily be my first language, my mother still has trouble with it. It's a lot harder to learn the language when you're older and you're used to speaking/thinking in a one particular language.

My parents have lived in France for over 25 years and they still make mistakes and when they are out shopping and stuff people regurlaly try to switch to English cause they think my parents can't speak french .

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Originally posted by jdat and mannnnnnnnnnnny other countries. I for one living in France live in a predominently turkish area. I love it. The grocery store where I do most of my shopping has everything in turkish so I sometimes have to guess what the products are but for the most part I have it quite well figured out. Perhaps these people aren't integrated ( they barely speak french actually ) but I don't care. They are working honestly so good for them! Look around the world and everywhere there are little foreign colonies inside all the big cities.

Agreed. In fact India has always had different culture groups in it.. because of religion. You have the Muslims all in one area, all the writing is arabic, all the stores cater to the muslims, then the christian areas which have crosses and churches everywhere and is all in english, the parsi areas - all the old school zoroastrians all live in one nice area, and then everywhere else has the hindu stuff and whatnot.

i am definitely the type to appreciate and embrace other cultures...i've travelled a lot and i want to travel even more in the future, but i don't know, i guess i'm really burned out on miami and the whole latin culture where no one really cares to learn english and everyone just caters to being spanish. you can't even get a job in miami these days unless you are fluent in spanish...kinda sucks but whatever.



looking forward to your post lira.

quote:

Originally posted by infinity HiGH i've lived here for almost 17 years now and while English could easily be my first language, my mother still has trouble with it. It's a lot harder to learn the language when you're older and you're used to speaking/thinking in a one particular language.

Ah good point, I actually never thought of that. Is English really that difficult to learn? I guess it is seeing as how many people with English as a first language still do a pretty horrible job (see IGK )

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Originally posted by Slylee good point. sorry. i always forget about u guys up there. anyone ever see/hear that dennis leary stand up where he makes fun of canadians? he's like, "wtf is up with canadians man? i dont' fucking trust them, they're too fucking quiet and nice up there!"

hes right. we're quiet until someone pisses us off. then we got our hockey sticks and attack!

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Originally posted by RapidFire hes right. we're quiet until someone pisses us off. then we got our hockey sticks and attack!

Unless you're from the French-Canadian part, then you just don't do anything

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Originally posted by dj_bas Ah good point, I actually never thought of that. Is English really that difficult to learn? I guess it is seeing as how many people with English as a first language still do a pretty horrible job (see IGK )

It is. Mainly because most other languages follow the "pronounce the way you spell it" rule...whereas English doesn't. Just look at words like though, through, right and so on. If you're used to pronouncing a word the way it's spelt then that would throw you off.

Nevertheless, I think all immigrants should be put into a 8-week ESL course so they could at least grasp the basics and be able to get through every day life.

quote:

Originally posted by dj_bas Unless you're from the French-Canadian part, then you just don't do anything

youve obviously never been beaten with breadsticks

quote:

Originally posted by dj_bas Ah good point, I actually never thought of that. Is English really that difficult to learn? I guess it is seeing as how many people with English as a first language still do a pretty horrible job (see IGK )

It's not that difficult of a language.
The issue mostly comes because groups of people gather with their similar peers; they don't integrate with the rest of society and different cultures hence poor local language and cultural assimilation.

And in the US it's a little different. Historically twisting old english to make it easier ( or lazier ) for words like colour to color, through to thru etc etc resulting in peoples overall speech really garbage.


I used to correct my co workers english back in the US all the time despite having lived there only a couple years ( the same people who used to mock 'foreigners' for having bad english skills ).

oh and maybe i'm stereotyping but whatever...

even when my boyfriend and i go out to the delicious "mom and pop" cuban cafes or steak houses, the servers hardly speak english and we get the shittiest service...they totally cater to all their other cuban "regulars" and it just completely ruins our dining experience. i think they avoid us because they're scared since they don't speak english that well.


maybe i wouldn't be as frustrated if i was fluent in spanish. but the principle side of me thinks it's ridiculous that i need to learn it in order to survive in miami.

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