TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- OMG.... Marines consciously slaughtered dozens of civilians??
Pages (2): [1] 2 »

OMG.... Marines consciously slaughtered dozens of civilians??

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12990567/

Ongoing investigation.

quote:

WASHINGTON - Investigators believe that their criminal investigation into the deaths of about two dozen Iraqi civilians points toward a conclusion that Marines committed unprovoked murders, a senior defense official said Friday. The Marine Corps initially reported 15 deaths and said they were caused by a roadside bomb and an ensuing firefight with insurgents. A separate investigation is seeking to determine if Marines lied to cover up the killings.

This is an article from two months ago:

quote:

On the morning of Nov. 19, 2005, a roadside bomb struck a humvee carrying Marines from Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, on a road near Haditha, a restive town in western Iraq. The bomb killed Lance Corporal Miguel (T.J.) Terrazas, 20, from El Paso, Texas. The next day a Marine communiqu� from Camp Blue Diamond in Ramadi reported that Terrazas and 15 Iraqi civilians were killed by the blast and that "gunmen attacked the convoy with small-arms fire," prompting the Marines to return fire, killing eight insurgents and wounding one other. [...] According to eyewitnesses and local officials interviewed over the past 10 weeks, the civilians who died in Haditha on Nov. 19 were killed not by a roadside bomb but by the Marines themselves, who went on a rampage in the village after the attack, killing 15 unarmed Iraqis in their homes, including seven women and three children. Human-rights activists say that if the accusations are true, the incident ranks as the worst case of deliberate killing of Iraqi civilians by U.S. service members since the war began. In January, after TIME presented military officials in Baghdad with the Iraqis' accounts of the Marines' actions, the U.S. opened its own investigation, interviewing 28 people, including the Marines, the families of the victims and local doctors. According to military officials, the inquiry acknowledged that, contrary to the military's initial report, the 15 civilians killed on Nov. 19 died at the hands of the Marines, not the insurgents.

http://www.time.com/time/archive/pr...1174682,00.html

The sad fact is that this investigation wouldn't have even been opened had it not been for the persistence of the journalists at Time. The question therefore has to be raised: what else is happening over there that isn't being properly investigated?

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade The sad fact is that this investigation wouldn't have even been opened had it not been for the persistence of the journalists at Time. The question therefore has to be raised: what else is happening over there that isn't being properly investigated?

This is what we get for allowing idiots in the military. If they were all 4.0 GPA students we wouldn't have a problem. But instead we entice the poor and uneducated.

welcome to march 2006

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers This is what we get for allowing idiots in the military. If they were all 4.0 GPA students we wouldn't have a problem. But instead we entice the poor and uneducated.

Yeah, lets see what is wrong with what you just said. 4.0 GPA in the military or in fact 4.0 GPA in the average college or university? Yeah, not too many people have a 4.0 GPA and neither did you so quit fucking around. And just how is 4.0 GPA a measure of intelligence? Its like saying you get a perfect score in the ACT or SAT and that makes you the smartest person in the world. Its not true grades in high school have no meaning to a person's intelligence and you also fail to realise that their is different types on intelligence.

You have it wrong, as well as the article, soldiers don't do this unless they are ORDERED too.

It's a shame because Americans will always believe that the Soldiers acted out on their own when they didn't.

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid You have it wrong, as well as the article, soldiers don't do this unless they are ORDERED too.

If that were true there wouldn't be anything called, "attrition".

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r If that were true there wouldn't be anything called, "attrition".

this is actualy a really interesting situation because so many different things may have happened. attrition on who's part? the CO's? or did a specific group of soldiers start spraying bullets into women and children cuz their close friend died? was the CO trying to stop them? could he have stopped them? did he want to/? i'm sure it isnt all black and white. i am positive after reading up on this incident that at least one or two of the men who did this weren't acting out because of stress. did the rest follow? who the fuck knows and u can bet they will all be honourobly discharged and given 6 months in lock up or some shit.

bottom line, if there were more troops there like the commanders asked for, there would have been less of a chance of these kids snapping and ending lives blame the bush

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade This is an article from two months ago: http://www.time.com/time/archive/pr...1174682,00.html The sad fact is that this investigation wouldn't have even been opened had it not been for the persistence of the journalists at Time. The question therefore has to be raised: what else is happening over there that isn't being properly investigated?

Exactly. It is a "war" time scenario so a media black out over it's proper coverage shouldn't be surprising.

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid Yeah, lets see what is wrong with what you just said. 4.0 GPA in the military or in fact 4.0 GPA in the average college or university? Yeah, not too many people have a 4.0 GPA and neither did you so quit fucking around. And just how is 4.0 GPA a measure of intelligence? Its like saying you get a perfect score in the ACT or SAT and that makes you the smartest person in the world. Its not true grades in high school have no meaning to a person's intelligence and you also fail to realise that their is different types on intelligence. You have it wrong, as well as the article, soldiers don't do this unless they are ORDERED too. It's a shame because Americans will always believe that the Soldiers acted out on their own when they didn't.

+1 You actually said something that makes a whole lot of sense.

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid Yeah, lets see what is wrong with what you just said. 4.0 GPA in the military or in fact 4.0 GPA in the average college or university? Yeah, not too many people have a 4.0 GPA and neither did you so quit fucking around. And just how is 4.0 GPA a measure of intelligence? Its like saying you get a perfect score in the ACT or SAT and that makes you the smartest person in the world. Its not true grades in high school have no meaning to a person's intelligence and you also fail to realise that their is different types on intelligence.

Well, first off, a GPA in high school can give you an idea about how smart a person is. And seeing how most people in the marines don't go to college (Which is why they chose to join the marines in the first place), we can safely say that a "College GPA" is out of the question, here. So, if someone gets a 4.0 GPA in high school, it's obvious that this person was serious about his/her grades, and did very well. We can be sure this person got 100's in math, in science/chem/bio/physics, history, english, etc. An all around good student, who probably studied hard, or in rare cases, breezed through H.S. without studying at all. Then, of course, you get the cases where a student slacks in high school and gets a 1.67 GPA, and yet is very intelligent (Me being one). And if someone gets a perfect score on the SAT's, they are either A) Very smart B) Autistic C) Cheaters.

quote:

You have it wrong, as well as the article, soldiers don't do this unless they are ORDERED too. It's a shame because Americans will always believe that the Soldiers acted out on their own when they didn't.

These people aren't drones. The nazi soldiers "Were just following orders". Yeah, right.

Wow. What a surprise. I didnt know Americans didnt do any atrocities in Iraq whatsoever. Their soldiers are just plain innocent. Those stupid insurgents and media are lying, the prison torture is faked, the illegal use of banned chemical weapons is abosolute nonsense, and all the other crap is a simple way for insurgence to create instability in Iraq. 'Cause Americans are bringing an incredible stability to Iraq, which hasnt seen such great strides to democracy, with lower crime, less corruption and murders, and less of anything ... thats bad! Schools are hospitals are getting rebuilt, people of different religions are closer than they were ever before.

Man, I wish I just move to Iraq as soon as possible. Evil Saddam Hussein is now gone, and everything in Iraq right now IS BETTER than it was during the horrible horrible years of oppression of Saddamism. Oh boy, there goes another page in history.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers This is what we get for allowing idiots in the military. If they were all 4.0 GPA students we wouldn't have a problem. But instead we entice the poor and uneducated.

exactly,... so you joining the military after your GED ?

>JM<

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Wow. What a surprise. I didnt know Americans didnt do any atrocities in Iraq whatsoever. Their soldiers are just plain innocent. Those stupid insurgents and media are lying, the prison torture is faked, the illegal use of banned chemical weapons is abosolute nonsense, and all the other crap is a simple way for insurgence to create instability in Iraq. 'Cause Americans are bringing an incredible stability to Iraq, which hasnt seen such great strides to democracy, with lower crime, less corruption and murders, and less of anything ... thats bad! Schools are hospitals are getting rebuilt, people of different religions are closer than they were ever before. Man, I wish I just move to Iraq as soon as possible. Evil Saddam Hussein is now gone, and everything in Iraq right now IS BETTER than it was during the horrible horrible years of oppression of Saddamism. Oh boy, there goes another page in history.

Is that sarcasm?

quote:

Originally posted by tathi Is that sarcasm?

LOL, of course. Isn't it obvious? Everything in that message is quite opposite, actually

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium LOL, of course. Isn't it obvious? Everything in that message is quite opposite, actually

WEll, it was really funny, I mean you are quite a funny russian man. How much Vodka do you drink, you should slow down because you are killing me over here with your witty remarks.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium LOL, of course. Isn't it obvious? Everything in that message is quite opposite, actually

i was being sarcastic

quote:

Then, of course, you get the cases where a student slacks in high school and gets a 1.67 GPA, and yet is very intelligent (Me being one). And if someone gets a perfect score on the SAT's, they are either A) Very smart B) Autistic C) Cheaters.

No, I'm pretty sure that you're also a moron.

Even if we had enough 4.0 GPA students to fill the Army ranks - I would rather have them studying in college and earning degrees to make this country a better place than being cannon fodder abroad so wars like these wouldn't happen in the first place.

I love how many Westerners claim some sort of moral high ground relative to the rest of the world. And this is highly civilized and principled right?

note:

1. This is just a general comment, not directed at anyone on this thread/forum
2.I'm trying to refrain from using the term "the West" in order to avoid it being interpreted as a generalization applying to all of us,

so no need to get your panties in a bunch.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I love how many Westerners claim some sort of moral high ground relative to the rest of the world. And this is highly civilized and principled right? note: 1. This is just a general comment, not directed at anyone on this thread/forum 2.I'm trying to refrain from using the term "the West" in order to avoid it being interpreted as a generalization applying to all of us, so no need to get your panties in a bunch.

I like thongs actually.. ha ha ha ha

Seriously though, this is a suck ass situation, but I will wait for the official report but hearing all the news and reports coming out and then seeing the scars on those little kids is just terrible...

A reporter's shock at the Haditha allegations

One Reproters Surprise to all this:

This is why we cant half a** win a war to many rules to go by.. back in the day we went in a killed everything that moved... thats how u win a war u scare the shit out of everyone... now every time a soldier fires his weapon there is some kinda gay investigation.... get the media out and let our boys go and let them do what they do best... KILL

quote:

Originally posted by Dusco This is why we cant half a** win a war to many rules to go by.. back in the day we went in a killed everything that moved... thats how u win a war u scare the shit out of everyone... now every time a soldier fires his weapon there is some kinda gay investigation.... get the media out and let our boys go and let them do what they do best... KILL

In what war was that?? Civil, Revolution?? What war pray tell has American soldiers just went in and killed everything that moved?? And don't bring that shit that happened in Nam either, cause that was a isolated event, just like this one.
Also how the hell is investigating the killing of inocent kids and women "gay"??

please educate me?

Oh my bad I forgot about all the killings the American soldier did against the native american's.

Manifest Destiny i beleive it was called

In defense of the marines: They'd had a comrade killed i think the day before. That kind of makes you pissed. That's not an excuse for killing innocents, but s**t happens when people get mad, especially people with guns. I say, go forward with the investigation, court-martial whoever needs to be court-martialed, and keep going forward with the disaster of Iraq (what else can we do?)

Someone said that marines wouldn't shoot civilians unless ordered to. First of all, no soldier has to obey an illegal order (and yes, it is illegal to kill civilians). While they would probably be court-martialed, thanks to the wonderful freedom of the press, they would probably be released once their story got out. The excuse of "I was ordered to" ended permenantly in Nuremberg in 1946.

Lastly, I don't think the artocities are a result of "sending the poor off to fight." First of all, that suggests that the poor are more capable of atrocities, which I do not beleive. Second, the Marines are the best trained soldiers in the world, with the possible exceptions of SWAT-like anti-terror teams in various countries. To say this is the result of poor training strikes me as unlikely.

quote:

Originally posted by MehGoat In defense of the marines: They'd had a comrade killed i think the day before. That kind of makes you pissed. That's not an excuse for killing innocents, but s**t happens when people get mad, especially people with guns. I say, go forward with the investigation, court-martial whoever needs to be court-martialed, and keep going forward with the disaster of Iraq (what else can we do?) Someone said that marines wouldn't shoot civilians unless ordered to. First of all, no soldier has to obey an illegal order (and yes, it is illegal to kill civilians). While they would probably be court-martialed, thanks to the wonderful freedom of the press, they would probably be released once their story got out. The excuse of "I was ordered to" ended permenantly in Nuremberg in 1946. Lastly, I don't think the artocities are a result of "sending the poor off to fight." First of all, that suggests that the poor are more capable of atrocities, which I do not beleive. Second, the Marines are the best trained soldiers in the world, with the possible exceptions of SWAT-like anti-terror teams in various countries. To say this is the result of poor training strikes me as unlikely.

Yeah, this comes from a person who says the government is honest and has nothing to hide and conspiracies are all a lie. You know what? The war in Iraw itself is a lie. Weapons of mass destruction didnt exist. In fact, Americans used chemical weapons to retake Fallujah. And where's the link between 9/11 and Iraq? Were any terrorists from Iraq? Was Osama in Iraq? No No and No.

But I guess this is just another conspiracy, right?

Oh, and compare the number of Marines who died (for nothing) to number of dead Iraqis & civilians. Last time I checked the ratio was like 1 to 50. Kinda cool ,eh?

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.