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Men don't understand women; Women don't understand men

I was having a rather curious discussion with a friend of mine. Now, before we being, I must say that she happens to be a girl, whereas I believe most of you knows I'm a bloke. And, we were discussing about the differences between "men" and "women", and how they seem not to understand one another quite often.

To me, it's just the fact that it happens in all relationships: people have different points of view, so these views tend to clash in spite of gender (i.e. the clashes you have with your girlfriend aren't much different in nature from the clashes you have with your best friend of the same sex). My friend, though, says that women and men have basic common behaviour patterns, and these patterns differ on gender.

Anyway, here are excerpts of our discussion via e-mail:

quote:

Originally said by my friend [A]ccording to my experience (not only personal but friends� and friends� friends�) � girls do act the same after some time and in certain situations.

To which I replied:

quote:

Originally said by me I really suck at seeing patterns, and I wonder whether we can really divide "men" and "women" like that. If women behave all the same after a while (...), why is it that we still see great differences among them?

At that point, I realised this could be CORe material. Now go on, discuss, I'm curious to hear you people.

Fundamental truth in life.

Girls = crazy.
Boys = stupid.

Even if they know what's good for them, guys inevitably do something to screw up.

And girls are just uniformly crazy.

Re: Men don't understand women; Women don't understand men

quote:

Originally posted by Lira I realised this could be CORe material.

Wait a second there buddie. Are you saying people in teh c0re are stuupid.

I'm confused. What were you debating, what was her stance, and what was yours?

girls are easy. state capitals are hard.

No, Tweek, I just thought it would be fun... and lol @ Lebez

quote:

Originally posted by Inconspicuous What were you debating, what was her stance, and what was yours?

What were we debating: Behaviour (and relationships between men and women)
What her stance was: Women have one way to act, men have another
What my stance was: Individuals are all essentially different - grouping them in order to explain the problems of clashing point of views is completely unnecessary.

women put too much importance in dates.
exact date of first kiss down to the last nano second.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Fundamental truth in life. Girls = crazy. Boys = stupid. Even if they know what's good for them, guys inevitably do something to screw up. And girls are just uniformly crazy.

That also happens to work inversely aswell...

Girls = Stupid.
Boys = Crazy.

Depends on which one you stumble upon, kind of hard to find a genuinely smart girl, then when you do you realize shes a prude and wont touch your weiner so you're stuck at home posting in teh C0Re. Then you go out, dump her, find a chick thats crazy, but you don't realize that shes a man eating slut that she cheats on you more than you did on your 4th grade math quizzes. Then you realize how stupid you are. I honestly have no clue what im talking about.

quote:

Originally posted by superglo women put too much importance in dates. exact date of first kiss down to the last nano second.

Srsly. As said by the great Vaughn..I don't like the feeling. You're sitting there, you're wondering do I have food on my face, am I eating, am I talking too much, are they talking enough, am I interested I'm not really interested, should I play like I'm interested but I'm not that interested but I think she might be interested but do I want to be interested but now she's not interested? So all of the sudden I'm getting, I'm starting to get interested...

And when am I supposed to kiss her? Do I have to wait for the door cause then it's awkward, it's like well goodnight. Do you do like that ass-out hug? Where you like, you hug each other like this and your ass sticks out cause you're trying not to get too close or do you just go right in and kiss them on the lips or don't kiss them at all? It's very difficult trying to read the situation. And all the while you're just really wondering are we gonna get hopped up enough to make some bad decisions? Perhaps play a little game called "just the tip". Just for a second, just to see how it feels. Or, ouch, ouch you're on my hair.

I'm somewhere in between you two. You cannot group men & women into two colossal groups of behavioral patterns--some women behave identically to some men--but there are traits in each that are more likely to produce one set of outcomes rather than another. Analysis should be done on a case-by-case basis, but one consideration in that analysis has to be gender, as it does play a significant role.

quote:

Originally posted by superglo women put too much importance in dates. exact date of first kiss down to the last nano second.

Weirdly enough, I tend to remember dates a lot better than my girlfriend.

In fact, I was the one who had to tell her when our first date was (after we had been dating for about a month ).

most quarrels are about such trivial things that after the spat is over, the mature individual can look at it and understand that it was pretty stupid to fight over so lame a thing.

this is for both sexes, although im my personal opinion i feel females are more likely to act on emotion for justificational purposes when it comes to differences, whereas guys tend to be stubborn and testostoerone driven, making males more agressive and "my way is right" kinda.

my 2 cents

If I understand correctly, you're debating that if we can divide "men" and "women" into two different behavior patterns, why is it that there is still considerable difference between individuals?

Biologically there isn't any difference in male or female behavior. As children, we fix ourselves onto social models, and we devellop our behaviors by immitating them. You can just look at other, more isolated cultures where gender roles and identity are completely reversed. It's kind of ironic when you think about it - this very concept that we have that men are like this and women are like that is the very reason why people grow up fitting into these models so well. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.

This is also where alot of relationship problems are rooted. While people adopt the model that fits their own gender, they also adopt misconceptions about the other. For instance, girls who grow up reading romance novels will often have a very disorted view of men. Because their concept of what men are like is based on irrealistic characters from fictional novels, when they experience real relationships, they find nothing but dissapointement. They go from partner to partner never quite finding what they're looking for because their idea of the "perfect man" simply doesn't exist. If instead they had grown up with a proper image of what men are like, they would have less trouble accepting them, and would have healthier relationships in the long run. The same thing is applicable to how young boys absorb their perceptions of women.

girls: irrational & crazy
boys: egotistical & insensitive

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN boys: egotistical & insensitive

Caramon wasn't

quote:

Originally posted by Masonious Caramon wasn't

he was when he was an alcoholic

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN he was when he was an alcoholic

lol true

quote:

Originally posted by Aquarian (...)

Actually, I do agree with you (as this is something I clearly remember from my first studies on sociology). The reason why I asked her "why is it that there is still considerable difference between individuals?" is because if there's enough proof showing the differences between individuals of the same gender, and this is a social construct, why would one insist on making this girls-boys division so homogeneously?

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Actually, I do agree with you (as this is something I clearly remember from my first studies on sociology). The reason why I asked her "why is it that there is still considerable difference between individuals?" is because if there's enough proof showing the differences between individuals of the same gender, and this is a social construct, why would one insist on making this girls-boys division so homogeneously?

There are differences between individuals because obviousely people form their behaviors and personalities from much more than just one source. But part of what I was trying to say is that it's a part of that very social construct to believe that there is a clear division between the genders. From an early age we're thought that men and women are fundamentally different.

quote:

Originally posted by Aquarian There are differences between individuals because obviousely people form their behaviors and personalities from much more than just one source.

I agree with you here...

quote:

Originally posted by Aquarian But part of what I was trying to say is that it's a part of that very social construct to believe that there is a clear division between the genders. From an early age we're thought that men and women are fundamentally different.

... and I agree with you here too

Only bit I agree with is, women are crazy. say no more.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira No, Tweek, I just thought it would be fun... and lol @ Lebez What were we debating: Behaviour (and relationships between men and women) What her stance was: Women have one way to act, men have another What my stance was: Individuals are all essentially different - grouping them in order to explain the problems of clashing point of views is completely unnecessary.

We are all different but members of the same sex, or same population or ethnic group inside the same geographical location or with similar cultural exposure will share similar behaviors.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Actually, I do agree with you (as this is something I clearly remember from my first studies on sociology). The reason why I asked her "why is it that there is still considerable difference between individuals?" is because if there's enough proof showing the differences between individuals of the same gender, and this is a social construct, why would one insist on making this girls-boys division so homogeneously?

We are all different based on cultural exposure and personal experience.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN girls: bitches boys: assholes

Thats my way of looking at it i guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Actually, I do agree with you (as this is something I clearly remember from my first studies on sociology). The reason why I asked her "why is it that there is still considerable difference between individuals?" is because if there's enough proof showing the differences between individuals of the same gender, and this is a social construct, why would one insist on making this girls-boys division so homogeneously?

I wouldn't make the distinction homogenously. WHat somepsychologists call "male" and "female" thought or behaviour are broad generalisations at best. If one is mindful of the fact that there are no absolutes and that these generalisations will not apply to everyone - and don't apply to ANYONE in an abslute sense, then they can be a useful tool for helping u analyse communication problems.

There are theories that the differences are biological... like all that stuff about boys preferring competitive games, and girls preferring empathetic games... and foetuses exposed to larger quantities of testosterone in the womb developing less inner-ear hair receptors (hence - girls are better listeners) et... Personally I find any arguments relating to inborn personality traits somewhat tentative and dubious (probably partly due to my staunch desire to believe in free will). I think these differences come about for the most part from social conditioning from a young age.

This article is kinda on-topic. It's about SImon Baron-Cohen's study of autism, and relates to general differences betwen male and female thinking - autism, in his opinion, being "a case of the extreme male brain": http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3207.html

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