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If I knew then what I know now. Tips for beginners.

Hello!


I'll try to keep this as breif as possible for the sake of pure helpful info.


1. Less is definately more. Creativity by limitation

Because of accident induced compensation I was able to buy alot of big name softsynths and sample cd's straight away when I started out. This was my undoing. It wasn't until two about years later I realised that I would never find that 'ultimate sound' I was looking for. I sold what ones I could and I now limit myself to only ever owning 3 softsynths, and 1 sample cd.

2. Know your software.

I heard soundsets by vengeance-sound.de for V-Station and was amazed at what he could get out of that synth. Why couldn't I do that? I sat down and I did that. I learnt V-Station like that back of my hand, manual and all. Still supprise myself by creating sounds I never thought I could get out of it. Use and abuse your software. Tweak and twiddle everything and realise what it does and why it does it.

3. Don't search for that 'ultimate sound'

It doesn't exsist. You know the one you think you need to make your riff sound "just right". Make your riff sound right, make your synth sound right.

4. Time, patience.

I now use Cubase, though started out on fruity loops. I must admit it's very easy to churn out 'stuff' on fruity loops in a matter of hours. The streamlined interface coupled with the easy piano roll and very efficient matrix style drum editor meant I was knocking out tunes twice weekly. But none were any good. The same thing in cubase takes longer anyway, but Now I spend weeks on a track because I'm actually trying and the improvments have been amazing. Strangly enough I haven't finished a complete track since using cubase. That must say something.

5. Don't try and sound like everyone else

Try not to assume that because a something sounds really good in a song your heard it will sound good in yours. Elements and components in each individual track work together with themselves, sounds influence other sounds. But do use other tracks as a learning tool. When I started out I tried to recreate one of my favourite tunes as best I could. I didn't sound anywhere near as good but I had an invaluable lesson in the most important aspects needed to put a half decent track together.

Maybe this is a possible sticky if other forumites would like to add their "if i knew then what I know now" kinda of tips. Hopfully a valuable resource to newbies and exsisting users alike.

nice read, will help many people I'm sure...

maybe you could PM diginut to add it to the tutorial master list

Re: If I knew then what I know now. Tips for beginners.

quote:

4. Time, patience. I now use Cubase, though started out on fruity loops. I must admit it's very easy to churn out 'stuff' on fruity loops in a matter of hours. The streamlined interface coupled with the easy piano roll and very efficient matrix style drum editor meant I was knocking out tunes twice weekly. But none were any good. The same thing in cubase takes longer anyway, but Now I spend weeks on a track because I'm actually trying and the improvments have been amazing. Strangly enough I haven't finished a complete track since using cubase. That must say something.

I don't know how not finishing a single tune since is a good thing? All of my best tracks are the ones that were completed in just a day or two - tweaking your tunes endlessly makes one get bored and the track usually ends to the twilight zone.

The other points are more or less spot on, though.

Nice read!

Sound advice, i could do well to follow it though.

Re: Re: If I knew then what I know now. Tips for beginners.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I don't know how not finishing a single tune since is a good thing? All of my best tracks are the ones that were completed in just a day or two - tweaking your tunes endlessly makes one get bored and the track usually ends to the twilight zone. The other points are more or less spot on, though.

More or less agreed. Although I am beginning to come round to the idea that you never actually finish a song. Theres always some aspect of it which you can improve upon at a later date.

I listened to For an Angel recently and theres ugly compression noise on the kick drum! At some point you have to draw a line in the sand and start working on another project. Otherwise you will be forever tweaking things.

Thats the stage I'm stuck in at the moment. On the flipside if you are not satisfied with the songs you wrote a month ago, it means you are already making progress - noticing things that sound crap in your old work and you are getting better because of it.

If you never finish anything but churn out bass/drum/lead tracks once every 2 days then you will get really good at the preliminary production process, but you will suck shit at the final touches. Because you barely spend any time finishing things up - you usually never get that far.

Theres a real art to seeing a project through to completion. Or at least to stage where you can say - theres nothing severely lacking or flawed in this product. Nothing severe enough that it can stand on its own as a song.

i tried on and off producing for years...nothing very serious. i'd get in the mood to play around a little and because of that i'd always get frustrated with sound quality and stuff like that. i'd think it's the limitations of the software and of course if i had hardware i'd turn something sweet out.

a couple of weeks ago i decided to take a more serious approach to music making and decided to basically reteach myself what i thought i knew about synthesis and music theory etc...

it's still an on going process of course, but the improvement from a serious approach of trying to understand what is making things work is the best thing someone can do. after such a short time i already feel like my ability to make professional results has grown exponentially just from taking the time to read up on things. also just taking the time to systematically play with the tools in the programs to see exactly what is being described to you in definitions and all...if you don't know what the effect of setting an LFO to a certain level is, how are you ever going to control it? if you don't know how one oscillator modulates another...how are you supposed to manipulate it.

i know a lot of people just like to tweak and play around until they like something...that's what i used to do aswell, but i really feel that can only go so far without knowing the deeper concepts and elements of music production. if you don't understand the minutia of music production then you will never have a professional sound. you're having trouble with bass sounds? well there's a reason. you're having trouble creating lush pad sounds...well there are reasons for that as well. it's not your synth...it's you. you need to learn how to use it.


a lot about music production is simple once you learn how to break it down into something understandable. then it's just about manipulating things into what you dream...

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller i tried on and off producing for years...nothing very serious. i'd get in the mood to play around a little and because of that i'd always get frustrated with sound quality and stuff like that. i'd think it's the limitations of the software and of course if i had hardware i'd turn something sweet out. a couple of weeks ago i decided to take a more serious approach to music making and decided to basically reteach myself what i thought i knew about synthesis and music theory etc... it's still an on going process of course, but the improvement from a serious approach of trying to understand what is making things work is the best thing someone can do. after such a short time i already feel like my ability to make professional results has grown exponentially just from taking the time to read up on things. also just taking the time to systematically play with the tools in the programs to see exactly what is being described to you in definitions and all...if you don't know what the effect of setting an LFO to a certain level is, how are you ever going to control it? if you don't know how one oscillator modulates another...how are you supposed to manipulate it. i know a lot of people just like to tweak and play around until they like something...that's what i used to do aswell, but i really feel that can only go so far without knowing the deeper concepts and elements of music production. if you don't understand the minutia of music production then you will never have a professional sound. you're having trouble with bass sounds? well there's a reason. you're having trouble creating lush pad sounds...well there are reasons for that as well. it's not your synth...it's you. you need to learn how to use it. a lot about music production is simple once you learn how to break it down into something understandable. then it's just about manipulating things into what you dream...

Very solid analysis. I can't wait to hear some of your more serious efforts.

Added to main sticky.

quote:

Originally posted by Allied Nations Very solid analysis. I can't wait to hear some of your more serious efforts.

well it will be a while hehehe ...but it'll be worth the time investment.

i'd like to eventually do some tutorials, but that's also a ways off hehe...

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller a lot about music production is simple once you learn how to break it down into something understandable. then it's just about manipulating things into what you dream...

100% correct as I see it.

I think its easy to forget that if you only know how to use a hammer - everything starts to look like a nail.

If you don't know what half the knobs on your synth do (and I mean really know how they behave in relation to every other knob) then you are working within limits.

You only know how to use a hammer (oscillator), a screw driver (filter cutoff) and a wrench (filter resonance).

So what happens when you want to jigsaw a circle out of wood? Beat a peice of mahogany into something vaguely circular shaped and smooth off the edges by chilselling it into a rounder shape using a flat screwdriver and hitting it with a hammer?

Or you could learn to use the other sound sculpting tools on the synth like amp and filter envelopes, LFOs and how you can route them together to shape sounds or learn how they all interact if the routing is fixed.

I really do think the preset is the the worst thing to happen to modern music making. Because its designed to save time and showcase a synth's potential but it ends up being used very often to save time and effort in learning how to use the tools you have been given properly.

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative I really do think the preset is the the worst thing to happen to modern music making. Because its designed to save time and showcase a synth's potential but it ends up being used very often to save time and effort in learning how to use the tools you have been given properly.

yeah i agree with that. i always see people posting in here about get this plugin for this...or this plugin for that.

well...why do you need different plugins? i'm a big fan of FM synthesis personally...if you learn how to build sounds you don't need different plugins...you don't need sample cds. you make your own sounds from the ground up and you have greater control.

personally just about the only plugins i would get are higher quality effect plugins if there are limits to the ones you're using and really those should only most be used after you've goten the sound you are looking for to add finishing touches. get a better compressor, a better reverb, a better delay, a better EQ etc...but as long as you have a good FM synth...that's all you really need

i know it's not for everyone, but that's my favorite hehe...

I just want to say thank you to everyone who's posted here and spoken from their "what I know now" vantage point. And a big thanks goes to Toka, who, out of his own apparent desire to help others, for whatever reason even thought to and then proceeded to start this thread! Thanks Toka!!

I'm a noob..... even though I've been at this for a solid year and several months. And any support I can get is of great value to me. Of course, the technical "how to" and "how come" type of stuff. But it's also good to hear stuff like a little of Floorfiller's personal history making music, and the like. When you're sitting in your studio, frustrated that you've spent all weekend, feeling like you didn't get squat accomplished!..... and on top of that you have to go back to work tomorrow!..... it's good to hear other people have had their struggles too. So far, it's been the hope of getting somewhere good that keeps me plugging along. I don't feel like I'm getting absolutely nowhere..... there IS progress..... but it's SOOOOOO slow. But the pace of improvement is different for everyone, and hopefully they have adequate patience to tolerate (as it feels to me) whatever that pace happens to be.

I would be interested to hear about "breakthrough" moments from anyone who feels they've had something like that. Or just times when you felt like you really WERE getting somewhere with your music. DO you get to points like that? Was there some decision you made or change in your mode of working that you think brought about the "breakthrough" or reaching a new level of ability? Thanks in advance for whatever you feel like sharing. And sorry if I went on too much.

J2J

Re: Re: If I knew then what I know now. Tips for beginners.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I don't know how not finishing a single tune since is a good thing? All of my best tracks are the ones that were completed in just a day or two - tweaking your tunes endlessly makes one get bored and the track usually ends to the twilight zone. The other points are more or less spot on, though.

+1.


Another thing I learned. Don't over analyze and overwork a track.

Haven't read the thread but maybe these'll help:

- A large amount of the good synth sounds you hear in your favourite productions are the result of layers of external processing away from the synth and not purely the output of a synthesiser alone. Try treating the synth as a start point, try making an audio loop with your original synth output and put it into your sampler, try putting it in your audio editor. Try layering patches. Modulate like it's going out of fashion in the synth and using fx out of the synth.

- Trust your own ears, trust your own judgements. If you think something sounds good go with it. Find your own way to produce, what works for someone else may not work for you - what works for your favourite producer may not work for you - go with what you're comfortable with.

I agree with the threadstarters points but I also think that you could offer equally valid tips by expressing their opposites:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1. Definately make it complex.

Layer everything at least twice. Have all sorts of effects on each sound. Build a complex chord progression. Synths have their own character therefore the more you have, the wider tonal pallette you have at your disposal.

2. Get Hardware.

When I listen to the software soundsets made by vengeance they sound nowhere near as good as the ones for the Virus, JP, Nord and Waldorf Pulse. So get hardware, get cool presets and tweak them a bit.

3. Search for that 'ultimate sound'

Once you get hardware it's easy to create nice sounds. How to use the sound is the hardest part. There are lot's of 'ultimate' sounds e.g. Faithless Insomnia, Mauro Picotto - Lizard etc.


4. Step up the pace.

Stop messing around and get the job done! Analyse your workflow and see where you can cut corners, make tunes 'in the moment' when your buzzing from the melody you just wrote.

5. Copy your favourite artists.

What kinda trance do you like?... Make it then!


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nearly every phrase/quote/saying has at least one flip-side.

quote:

Originally posted by Synchronicity 5. Copy your favourite artists. What kinda trance do you like?... Make it then!

...and end up losing every bit of originality.

Trying to copy a sound you like can have good learning value. Beyond that it's just silly. Why the heck would you want your tracks to sound exactly like someone else's?

EXCELLENT INFO...

Thanks to everyone who posted. I've taken it all to heart! Hopefully you guys have helped make me a better musician

You bumped a 5 year old thread.

no sex in the champagne room

Coffee.

Tips for beginners:

There's no 'a' in the word 'definitely'.

Hahaha just breaking your balls.

The only advice that I would give you, if you are learning to do trance/house/progressive or breakbeat, don't buy sample cd's for those specific genres. Look to diversify and bring sounds from other genres into it.

Trance plucks in a trance track will not get you anywhere... but who knows.. maybe if you are creative enough, you can make it work in a house track (??)

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