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Future of mixing Software is bleak!
This is where I think we are going...thought you'd all like & hate this:
CDJs: the way we manipulate the songs (using a "deck") will not change, but the media will. you still need beatmatching skills.
instead of audio tracks/mp3s on CDs, the internal/external hard drive will become standard.
all of the software people use to mix with will fade away - and we will continue just using decks because:
- people are going to get tired of hauling around their computers/laptops for gigs
- clubs dont know how to maintain the equipment & wont buy new computers for their Djs every year
- hitting the synch button on the software mixer to instantly beatmatch does not cut it for live performances.
software-aided mixing programs is only a phase the industry is goin through and will not last. industry is pushing it to the superstar DJs - thats the only reason it's taking off. these programs will continue to be a favorite of bedroom DJs and professional recoding studios.
VINYL: i dont care if the vinyl is controlling an mp3 on a hardrive...as long as you still have to physically push the vinyl on a turntable. software like Final Scratch for vinyl will diasppear and be replaced by turntables with internal hard drives.
AGAIN, computers hooked to external tables/decks is NOT going to last!
dont get too wrapped up in the software world...stick to your decks and turntables & maintain your beatmatching skills.
The tendency shows otherwise.
I don't have time to elaborate but I think you're not right...especially Ableton performances can make daaaaaaaaamn interesting show...especially if you don't use ableton only to match the tracks etc...but add improvised melodies, restructure tracks or remix live...people like it...
why wouldn't they? it's nice to hear music being manipulated in a unique way just for one show...they will hear something unique...
I don't say matching and mixing on CDJs doesn't kinda make it unique also...just the level of creativity with ableton is much bigger.
i dont care really, just play with what you like, be it ableton,cds,vinyl,traktor and all the other stuff...
all this talk about future...live now lol 
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| Originally posted by Akazi i dont care really, just play with what you like, be it ableton,cds,vinyl,traktor and all the other stuff... all this talk about future...live now lol |
Wow I pity your myopic view. You must live in some bubble with a relentless attitude to hold on to things that are "classic". You might want to do yourself a favor (as a dj and musician) and accept digital technology as a friend. Contrary to what you're stating, I don't think it will be too long until the two media merges completely. It's already to the point where you can't tell if the dj is playing digital or vinyl unless you're actually watching.
Also, the purpose of being a dj is to be a performer. Digital technology allows you to enhance your performance. As I mentioned in another thread, I feel that being adaptable is an integral part of the dj performance. It allow you to grow and develop your sound. Digital technology allows for this. The initial cost of a digital production studio is drastically less than that of a hardware studio.
You mentioned setup. I've managed a live pa before and I can tell you that the setup for a live act is much more of pain in the ass than some laptop. Even as a Serato dj, all you have to do is plug your interface in and go. Even when I do cd gigs, I can carry 120 full length cds (each with about 12-15 tracks) in a case that's an fraction of the size of a record case containing 120 records.
And what does being able to carry that much music mean to me? Adaptability. It means that I can now truly play to any crowd at any time with just about any sounds that I feel I need. My timeslot gets bumped an hour? I got it covered. Somebody doesn't show and I have to play earlier? No problem, I got the music. The crowd is less psychedelic and more progressive? Just have to switch it up. The promoter wants me to go on for awhile longer? No big deal. No scrambling for tracks and B-Sides to fill time.
Digital technology provides for enhancability and adapatation to the dj's set. Which, IMHO is what makes a good dj, a great dj.
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| It's already to the point where you can't tell if the dj is playing digital or vinyl unless you're actually watching. |
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| Originally posted by nefardec I think it's pretty easy. Digital DJs usually have some sort of Attention Deficit Mixing, lots of tracks in a short amount of time, ungodly amounts of afterthought mashups, etc I agree that it allows enhancement of performance, but I want to make the point that it doesn't enhance the performance if the DJ is unskilled as it is, and given that it is more accesible financially it is the case that you get a lot more half-assed DJs. There is something important I think about dropping 2500 usd or more on equipment. This way only the people who truly love it and are willing to screw themselves over it are the people who try, and you kind of are forced to take it more seriously because of it. |
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| Originally posted by TwistedDUO No, I fully agree. Vinyl purists tend to argue that all digital dj's have to do is "press play" and the everything works on it's own. This may be true for some digital programs but cd decks work the same as vinyl decks. In fact, with digital you actually have to KNOW your music. You don't have the grooves of vinyl slate to help you. This is another topic altogether but I just wanted to reiterate the point. Yes, it doesn't matter what media you're on (even computer software), if you don't have a knowledge of the fundementals of dj'ing, you're gonna sound like crap no matter what you play. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by TwistedDUO No, I fully agree. Vinyl purists tend to argue that all digital dj's have to do is "press play" and the everything works on it's own. This may be true for some digital programs but cd decks work the same as vinyl decks. In fact, with digital you actually have to KNOW your music. You don't have the grooves of vinyl slate to help you. |
this topic is really old and stale. find something new to debate.
Jay
Re: Future of mixing Software is bleak!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJ Z This is where I think we are going...thought you'd all like & hate this: CDJs: the way we manipulate the songs (using a "deck") will not change, but the media will. you still need beatmatching skills. instead of audio tracks/mp3s on CDs, the internal/external hard drive will become standard. all of the software people use to mix with will fade away - and we will continue just using decks because: - people are going to get tired of hauling around their computers/laptops for gigs - clubs dont know how to maintain the equipment & wont buy new computers for their Djs every year - hitting the synch button on the software mixer to instantly beatmatch does not cut it for live performances. software-aided mixing programs is only a phase the industry is goin through and will not last. industry is pushing it to the superstar DJs - thats the only reason it's taking off. these programs will continue to be a favorite of bedroom DJs and professional recoding studios. VINYL: i dont care if the vinyl is controlling an mp3 on a hardrive...as long as you still have to physically push the vinyl on a turntable. software like Final Scratch for vinyl will diasppear and be replaced by turntables with internal hard drives. AGAIN, computers hooked to external tables/decks is NOT going to last! dont get too wrapped up in the software world...stick to your decks and turntables & maintain your beatmatching skills. |
sounds like a fucking stupid idea if you ask me. how on earth did you come up with something like that? 
Does it really matter? To each their own. Enjoy the music, and enjoy entertaining people.
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| Originally posted by dark_Omens Does it really matter? To each their own. Enjoy the music, and enjoy entertaining people. |
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| Originally posted by theognis1002 what about CD decks? they dont tell u jack shit about the song structure etc... |
I'm over arguing this point.
Vinyl purists will say anything to discredit anything beside vinyl. Digital dj's will say anything to defend it. And it's all nonsense because the only people that are deeply impressed by the media in which others use are the dj's. The dancers will be moved if you have good music and you know that music well. No matter whether it's a cd, vinyl record, or digital software program.
dont have a clue what has to be done to get electronic music back to quality against the currect electro-prog crap everybody's been playing. let it be good old vinyl - just gimme back the days of 2001 with music i.e. Humate, Bedrock, Marco V, Yves Dereuter...
all these diginal innovations aren't getting the music anywhere god damn it! listen to the most notorious dj's playing Ableton - PvD - what the f**k is he playing??? Shakira samples + electrocrap + god-knows-what + minimal throwup.. the whole electronic scene got me really upset and I hope someone comes up with something that, at least I personally, would tap my feet at... strictly personal thoughts.. 
oh...mm... *listening to Corvin Dalek - I Am Dalek (2003)*
| quote: |
| Originally posted by blacknoizybox dont have a clue what has to be done to get electronic music back to quality against the currect electro-prog crap everybody's been playing. let it be good old vinyl - just gimme back the days of 2001 with music i.e. Humate, Bedrock, Marco V, Yves Dereuter... all these diginal innovations aren't getting the music anywhere god damn it! listen to the most notorious dj's playing Ableton - PvD - what the f**k is he playing??? Shakira samples + electrocrap + god-knows-what + minimal throwup.. the whole electronic scene got me really upset and I hope someone comes up with something that, at least I personally, would tap my feet at... strictly personal thoughts.. oh...mm... *listening to Corvin Dalek - I Am Dalek (2003)* |
This is a pointless debate that will never, ever end. Vinyl will always be around, CDJs will always be around, and software will always be around. People will choose what works best for them. The argument is subjective, and you should be content with what you use rather than the choices of others.
Stop discussing this already and let it die.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by TwistedDUO Again more myopic spillage from yet another who would love nothing more than a "progressive" movement sit idle. |
DJ Z: worst thesis evar.
debate: most pointless evar.
thread: gheyest evar.
Totally. Worst thread I've seen in quite some time.
Yeah, this thread sucks.
You know what's truly amazing about this whole format debate? The fact that people argue tooth and nail as if they have to justify their personal preference as being the only viable way to DJ. It's as if there was some sort of global committee holding a vote next week as to which DJ format shall be adopted and standardized from hear until eternity.
The same technological advances that have sparked this whole debate have made it entirely possible to have your cake and eat it too. If you're a CD DJ, you can still buy wax all you like. Just rip it and burn it. Same goes if you're an Ableton/software DJ. If you grew up with a pair of 1200s in your crib, and just can't let go of the vinyl feel, then keep buying wax and get a copy of Serato. Seriously, my MacBook and accompanying M-Audio external soundcard are infinately easier to carry around than a heavy crate of records, and they setup in about 60 seconds max.
This debate is so asinine it's mind-boggling.
Picture above: ostrich reacts to latest ASOT
I'm not going to argue for or against one medium or another. It really doesn't matter.
What I will say is that I have never been impressed by anything I have seen on Ableton as a DJing tool. I have seen guys drop vocals over tracks, I have seen them loop stuff and use basslines from other stuff etc.
The point is that I have seen this done with both decks and CDJs too.
The one difference in these cases is that if you see somone doing this on Ableton, you know that it's actually not that difficult. You see someone do this on decks and you know the guy has skills.
The best Ableton performances I have seen have been from guys who already knew how to DJ before they started using this. Guys who where just Ablton users have in my experience missed the finer points of DJ and replaced it with a look what I can do attitude which seldom works in the clubs.
That said you get some really sucky vinyl and CDJ performances also so it's each to their own.
My only dislike on Ableton users is that some are prepared to put themselves on the same level as DJs who have been working for years just becase they can acheive a similar result but don't have the dues paid. I think you will find that a lot of clubs still shy away from laptop performances unless you are established and even then will frown on it, although I believe this will change.
My dislike from the otherside of DJing is that traditional DJs will slate digital without understanding it.
I love CDJs at the moment and personally think it's the best format for playing out. I still drop the occasional vinyl.
It will probably be a cold day in hell before I play on Ableton as I find it really boring. But who knows what the future holds... as some bright spark with big green ears once said, "Always in motion the future is, not possible to see what may or may not come to be".
I think Z's comment is valid in someways as I also believe that the Ableton format will change and there will be some breakthrough in technology that renders all that we know today obsolete. But the most important thing that we need to take with us as DJs whether we use Digital or Analogue is our ability to make people have a good time.
Cheers
Nem
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