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newbie question. Got the beat matchnig down - what's next?e

Well, I can finally beatmatch pretty well. What should I learn next? As of now I have a few problems.

1. After I bring in the cued track - I can't seemlessly fade out the the first track
2. Sometimes - the cued track is much louder then the outgoing track
3. How do I make build - ups and proper effects when making transitions? (I'm using DXM06 mixer)

Any other suggestions?

Re: newbie question. Got the beat matchnig down - what's next?e

quote:

Originally posted by Andryuha Well, I can finally beatmatch pretty well. What should I learn next? As of now I have a few problems. 1. After I bring in the cued track - I can't seemlessly fade out the the first track

use ur equalizers, not just the fader

quote:

2. Sometimes - the cued track is much louder then the outgoing track

turn down the music on the louder channel so its the same as the other track

Re: newbie question. Got the beat matchnig down - what's next?e

quote:

Originally posted by Andryuha 1. After I bring in the cued track - I can't seemlessly fade out the the first track 2. Sometimes - the cued track is much louder then the outgoing track 3. How do I make build - ups and proper effects when making transitions?

1. EQing. Just like nachos said, you'll have to learn to use your highs, mids and lows to their greatest potential. Just experiment and learn what sounds best. You'll get the hang of it. Just start bringing in and taking out certain elements of the track with the EQs. Also, watch your phrasing while doing so.

2. Pay attention to your gain knob and your levels. Your tracks shouldn't be redlining. Keep each track in the greens and yellows. Watch the levels while you're cuing up the incoming track and make sure that it's at the same level as the track thats currently playing.

3. The effects either need to be built-in in your mixer or your decks. My only advice is to experiment and see what souds good. Use delays and loops to build and more 'atmospheric' effects like the flanger during the breaks of a song. It just takes practice and a good ear.

Re: Re: newbie question. Got the beat matchnig down - what's next?e

I say do the following, before you jump into eq'ing and effects:

1. Learn to set your gains properly and really listen for levels. Use your ears.

2. Learn proper phrasing, and learn your tracks inside out. The tracks will dictate when you throw in the other track, how much, and when to cut the outgoing track. Listen to the structure of the tracks.

3. You should be able to mix smoothly using JUST the upfaders, don't touch the EQ's yet. You'll be a better DJ for it. Seriously.

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Originally posted by D-res 1. EQing. Just like nachos said, you'll have to learn to use your highs, mids and lows to their greatest potential. Just experiment and learn what sounds best. You'll get the hang of it. Just start bringing in and taking out certain elements of the track with the EQs. Also, watch your phrasing while doing so. 2. Pay attention to your gain knob and your levels. Your tracks shouldn't be redlining. Keep each track in the greens and yellows. Watch the levels while you're cuing up the incoming track and make sure that it's at the same level as the track thats currently playing. 3. The effects either need to be built-in in your mixer or your decks. My only advice is to experiment and see what souds good. Use delays and loops to build and more 'atmospheric' effects like the flanger during the breaks of a song. It just takes practice and a good ear.

Re: Re: Re: newbie question. Got the beat matchnig down - what's next?e

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 I say do the following, before you jump into eq'ing and effects: 1. Learn to set your gains properly and really listen for levels. Use your ears. 2. Learn proper phrasing, and learn your tracks inside out. The tracks will dictate when you throw in the other track, how much, and when to cut the outgoing track. Listen to the structure of the tracks. 3. You should be able to mix smoothly using JUST the upfaders, don't touch the EQ's yet. You'll be a better DJ for it. Seriously.

Excellent advice.
Unfortunately I started messing with the eqs before properly grasping the idea of mixing. That messed me up.

So true. I find most DJs overuse the EQs to compensate for a lack of solid programming skills.

And remember...Get your timing down right. I go in when it reaches beat 32. That works best for me. You also want to have long mixes....not short quick ones. I think 40 seconds to a minute mixes are good. I think coming in with long mixes makes it more easy for me to adjust before coming into the next tune.

Of course, I prefer to use my que over the traditional style by using the monitors. So I can hear how the mix sounds before I come in. I like mixing flawless. I can do both cue mixing or using the monitors only.....It's just, when using the monitors instead, I have to do my correcting when coming in...if need be... Even though I have my levels, to my incoming track, only halfway up compared to the tune that is playing...you can still hear the corrections made if you are that sceptical dj standing on the side wishing you were playing instead of him or her....

Well it's hard to say how "long" a mix should go for... like I said, lets the tracks tell you. If the incoming track is going into a breakdown, you usually (though not always) will want to drop the outgoing at that point.

I don't know if I agree about cueing in the headphones, works fine at home, not so much in a club. Last night I went to a local club (closed at the time) with a resident DJ friend of mine and we played for a few hours on their system (which happens to be fantastic).

Attempting to hear two tracks in the phones would be impossible (at least for me) in that environment, it's so unbelievably loud with 8 monitors over your head and 2 18" subs at your feet that there's no way you can differentiate two tracks like you do at home. It's even difficult to hear ONE track clearly.

Not to mention that the Rane 2016 mixer they have doesn't have split-cue, or even cueing more than one track in the phones. Just something to be prepared for.

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Originally posted by Rick Mage And remember...Get your timing down right. I go in when it reaches beat 32. That works best for me. You also want to have long mixes....not short quick ones. I think 40 seconds to a minute mixes are good. I think coming in with long mixes makes it more easy for me to adjust before coming into the next tune. Of course, I prefer to use my que over the traditional style by using the monitors. So I can hear how the mix sounds before I come in. I like mixing flawless. I can do both cue mixing or using the monitors only.....It's just, when using the monitors instead, I have to do my correcting when coming in...if need be... Even though I have my levels, to my incoming track, only halfway up compared to the tune that is playing...you can still hear the corrections made if you are that sceptical dj standing on the side wishing you were playing instead of him or her....

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Originally posted by Rick Mage . You also want to have long mixes....not short quick ones. I think 40 seconds to a minute mixes are good.

That's totally subjective. It varies on whatever type of music you're spinning .Having some quick cuts instead of long drawn out mixes is infinitely better in some cases.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Well it's hard to say how "long" a mix should go for... like I said, lets the tracks tell you. If the incoming track is going into a breakdown, you usually (though not always) will want to drop the outgoing at that point. I don't know if I agree about cueing in the headphones, works fine at home, not so much in a club. Last night I went to a local club (closed at the time) with a resident DJ friend of mine and we played for a few hours on their system (which happens to be fantastic). Attempting to hear two tracks in the phones would be impossible (at least for me) in that environment, it's so unbelievably loud with 8 monitors over your head and 2 18" subs at your feet that there's no way you can differentiate two tracks like you do at home. It's even difficult to hear ONE track clearly. Not to mention that the Rane 2016 mixer they have doesn't have split-cue, or even cueing more than one track in the phones. Just something to be prepared for.

When I'm saying make your mixes long, I'm speaking for the most part. You don't have to have every mix long....just most for it to sound right. You certainly don't want to have a whole set or mix that are mostly short quick mixes....That just sounds like the DJ is trying to sneak out of a possible trainwreck to me....

And about the cueing...you don't have to agree.. It's just my preferd method that I use in clubs and raves... as for the rane....That's why I can also use the monitors...if need be...I DJed without cue on more than several occasions. It just takes me a little longer to get my beat matched. With cue...I get the beat matched within 20 to 30 seconds. Without cue...about a minute...

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Originally posted by ZeJayMan That's totally subjective. It varies on whatever type of music you're spinning .Having some quick cuts instead of long drawn out mixes is infinitely better in some cases.

This is a trance forum for the most part.

cueing only in headphone is a really bad thing cause :

- you dont really cue the track using your brain but only using fact the beat you heard does not beat match.

- most of club mixer like ecler or rodec solid one does not have cue option

- when you are playing in a club with 100-110db, you have to put the sound volume highter in headphone, a friend has lost a lot of audition due to cueing in headphone.

- when you put the fader of track you cueing, you dont really heard the sound of place, you cant correct gain.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux This is a trance forum for the most part.

im playing trance most of time, but im also playing some house/tek-house/electro/techno and french hardtechno/hardcore for fun.
and you dont mix the same way when you are playing uplifting, trance, tech trance or hard trance. so your reply is just bullshit and has nothing to do there.
plus, when you look dudes playing on big event like trance energy or sensation, dudes only do short mix to be sure they will not fucked up it on 100 kw sound system.

quote:

Originally posted by Rippey64 cueing only in headphone is a really bad thing cause : - you dont really cue the track using your brain but only using fact the beat you heard does not beat match. - most of club mixer like ecler or rodec solid one does not have cue option - when you are playing in a club with 100-110db, you have to put the sound volume highter in headphone, a friend has lost a lot of audition due to cueing in headphone. - when you put the fader of track you cueing, you dont really heard the sound of place, you cant correct gain.

Hey Rippey,

Sorry, have to disagree with you on all points.

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- you dont really cue the track using your brain but only using fact the beat you heard does not beat match.

Don't see how this process would be different?

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- most of club mixer like ecler or rodec solid one does not have cue option

I take it you mean split cue or similar?

Sure, sometimes you don't know what you are going to get, but most mixers these days have some form of cue, be it split cue or whatever. And this is exactly why it's worth knowing all methods of cueing up a record.

quote:

- when you are playing in a club with 100-110db, you have to put the sound volume highter in headphone, a friend has lost a lot of audition due to cueing in headphone.

If you have good isolation in your phones, there is no reason why you would have to have the volume any louder than a guy who mixes using single cup.

quote:

- when you put the fader of track you cueing, you dont really heard the sound of place, you cant correct gain.

Care to explain why, as it's never caused a problem for me?
As for hearing what's on in the main room you can always take your phones off.

In terms of mixing it's good to be familiar with all eventualities and to discount one or the other is a bit of a false economy.

Cheers
Nem

How exactly do you cue without the headphones? I usually beat match with the headphones. Then I take them off and use faders and adjust Eqs. Is that what you meant?

edit

quote:

Originally posted by Rippey64 cueing only in headphone is a really bad thing cause : - you dont really cue the track using your brain but only using fact the beat you heard does not beat match. - most of club mixer like ecler or rodec solid one does not have cue option - when you are playing in a club with 100-110db, you have to put the sound volume highter in headphone, a friend has lost a lot of audition due to cueing in headphone. - when you put the fader of track you cueing, you dont really heard the sound of place, you cant correct gain.

You are wrong on three of those counts... I'm not really sure about most clubs having mixers without cue functions. Some clubs, I have been to, had mixers with cue functions. Some did not....

Like I said....I can do both..but prefer to use cue... ..However...just an FYI....I can still use both headphones while I mix without the cue...so it looks like I'm cue mixing but I am not.... However, it still works like a cue function...just have to adjust the phone volumes and monitor to the right volume....I usally refer to that before I go all out to monitors. It all depends on if I can control the volume, of the monitors, or if I can not. Some sound crews don't like the DJ controlling the volumes of the monitors...

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Originally posted by Rick Mage You are wrong on three of those counts... I'm not really sure about most clubs having mixers without cue functions. Some clubs, I have been to, had mixers with cue functions. Some did not.... Like I said....I can do both..but prefer to use cue... ..However...just an FYI....I can still use both headphones while I mix without the cue...so it looks like I'm cue mixing but I am not.... However, it still works like a cue function...just have to adjust the phone volumes and monitor to the right volume....I usally refer to that before I go all out to monitors. It all depends on if I can control the volume, of the monitors, or if I can not. Some sound crews don't like the DJ controlling the volumes of the monitors...

maybe must clubs in frankfurt i dunno, most of them do, just look at pictures from every club...

If they use Pioneer or Allen and Heath mixers, then yes, you get lots of cue choices.

If they use classic rotary mixers (Urei, Rane's, etc.), then no, you don't. Rotaries are more popular here in the US (particularly in the bigger cities with longer club histories). Premier installations also tend to use the Urei mixer, as it sounds the best.

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Originally posted by nchs09 maybe must clubs in frankfurt i dunno, most of them do, just look at pictures from every club...

first of all, all my misstake, i spoke about cue split option to can switch between master sound and the channel you want to cue.

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 Hey Rippey, Sorry, have to disagree with you on all points. Don't see how this process would be different?

this is how i feel it, when i use split cue, i only use one ear, i try to make the two beat beatmatch, when i dont use split, my left ear hear one sound, my right another one and my brain try to make it beatmatch. the first thing is the same when you use your monitor to beatmatch.

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 I take it you mean split cue or similar? Sure, sometimes you don't know what you are going to get, but most mixers these days have some form of cue, be it split cue or whatever. And this is exactly why it's worth knowing all methods of cueing up a record.

i spoke about split cue option, and lot of club mixer does not have it, if you take a&h, pioneer or ecler nuo series, they got it, but mixer like ecler mac/sclat series or rodec mx does not have it, this is solid mixer, lot of club bought it cause they can keep it lot of year without going half a year to shop to make mixer repaired.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 If you have good isolation in your phones, there is no reason why you would have to have the volume any louder than a guy who mixes using single cup.

in lot of club dj booth you have a part of sound system in front of your face, and you can have a really good isolation, you will always hear the main sound. so if in your headphones you have the track you want to cue and the main sound, you will have to put the sound upper in your headphone than if you only have the track you want to cue.

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 Care to explain why, as it's never caused a problem for me? As for hearing what's on in the main room you can always take your phones off.

but if you only use to mix using split cue and since you have enought experience to perfeclty cue you track, you will keep your headphones in first 10-15 sec of mixing cause you want to be sure your tracks are cue, i've seen it so many times on many djs.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 In terms of mixing it's good to be familiar with all eventualities and to discount one or the other is a bit of a false economy. Cheers Nem

i'm totally agree with you, i use to mix using split cue when the booth monitor sucks which happen in a lot of pub/small club

Cheers

Rip

If I understand slit cue. (one tune in one ear & the other tune in the other) I don't slit cue...when I cue...I have both tunes playing at the same time in both ears...

That's accomplished one of two ways:

1. Cueing more than one channel in the headphones (possible if the mixer uses cue buttons on each channel, not possible if the mixer uses a knob to select which channel is cued).

2. Using the cue/master blend knob to add some of the master output to the headphones along with whatever you have cued.

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Originally posted by Rick Mage If I understand slit cue. (one tune in one ear & the other tune in the other) I don't slit cue...when I cue...I have both tunes playing at the same time in both ears...

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 That's accomplished one of two ways: 1. Cueing more than one channel in the headphones (possible if the mixer uses cue buttons on each channel, not possible if the mixer uses a knob to select which channel is cued). 2. Using the cue/master blend knob to add some of the master output to the headphones along with whatever you have cued.

Yeah, I was pretty sure what split cue was...even though I never cue that way. I cue with both tunes in my headphone playing at the same time. I will beatmatch until I hear no more trainwrecking and both tunes playing sounds clean to me. You don't need a cue/master blend knob, on a mixer, to cue the way I cue. You can use the gain controls of the channel that is not playing to control what you hear with the tune you are coming in with. You just have to have both channel on to hear both tracks. So, if a mixer has gain controls, it is very possible to cue mix on that mixer without a cue/master blend knob...if you do it my way....Most mixers have gains on them in todays world.

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Originally posted by Rippey64 im playing trance most of time, but im also playing some house/tek-house/electro/techno and french hardtechno/hardcore for fun. and you dont mix the same way when you are playing uplifting, trance, tech trance or hard trance. so your reply is just bullshit and has nothing to do there. plus, when you look dudes playing on big event like trance energy or sensation, dudes only do short mix to be sure they will not fucked up it on 100 kw sound system.

I just watched the Armin Only DVD a little while back, so I just checked out some of the transition lengths and Exactly -> Arisen was 28 seconds long as for the time when both tracks are playing at the same time.

I'm not really familiar with a lot of the styles you mentioned, but I know what I like to hear when it comes to prog and uplifting trance: long transitions. Not ever single mix has to be long and drawn out, but I love to hear a good build up to the next song.

How are you suppose to mix for uplifting, trance, tech trance and hard trance?

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Originally posted by Rick Mage Yeah, I was pretty sure what split cue was...even though I never cue that way. I cue with both tunes in my headphone playing at the same time. I will beatmatch until I hear no more trainwrecking and both tunes playing sounds clean to me. You don't need a cue/master blend knob, on a mixer, to cue the way I cue. You can use the gain controls of the channel that is not playing to control what you hear with the tune you are coming in with. You just have to have both channel on to hear both tracks. So, if a mixer has gain controls, it is very possible to cue mix on that mixer without a cue/master blend knob...if you do it my way....Most mixers have gains on them in todays world.

Yea but I think that what he meant was if what you are using doesnt have the split cue option, you would need to use the cue/master blend knob. Am I right Ryan?

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