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Italians at it again

When are Italy going to do something about the way their fascist thugs welcome visiting fans? The Mayor of Rome was offended that Man Utd warned their fans about trouble in the city, saying it was a welcome place. A few hours later and Man Utd fans are being beaten by Italian police while Roma fans hurl missiles at them. Once again attacked by the very people supposed to be protecting them. This comes only a year after three Middlesborough fans were stabbed in Rome. Yesterday another three fans, this time Manchester United, suffer stab wounds.

Who is going to police the Italian police? And why are they allowed to police these football games when they clearly aren't up to it? These seems to be a blatant prejudice against English fans in some of these places. How long can people go on perpetuating the myth that the English are starting it all? Espescially with all the video footage available showing it was clearly the police instigating the bother.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foo...ope/6528605.stm

Man Utd condemn police behaviour




Manchester United have condemned the Italian police following the violence in the Champions League tie with Roma at the Stadio Olimpico on Wednesday.

"In what the club views as a serious over-reaction, local police handed out indiscriminate beatings to United supporters," said a United statement.

"The disturbing scenes shocked everyone at Old Trafford."

Uefa has launched an investigation, while United want supporters to send in witness statements.

The Home Office have confirmed they will gather information from all relevant sources before deciding whether to approach Uefa about their concerns.

Italian Football Federation president Giancarlo Abete praised the action of police.

"We owe gratitude to our law enforcers and I don't believe those who try to make games safe can be crucified in this manner," he said.

Uefa has confirmed it has opened an investigation into the shocking scenes.

A statement said: "Uefa is currently gathering evidence and will be studying the official reports of the referee, delegate and security officer in detail before announcing any further action."

The investigation could lead to disciplinary action for both United and Roma.

Roma could be charged if they are judged to have failed in their security arrangements, while United could be in trouble if their fans are found to have a played a significant role in provoking the police's reaction.

Earlier in the season, United were fined �6,300 for the poor behaviour of their supporters in the away leg against Lille in Lens.

The trouble flared when rival fans surged towards a barrier separating them and missiles were thrown.

Baton-wielding riot police were seen repeatedly striking United supporters, including at least two as they lay on the floor.

Uefa spokesman William Gaillard said Uefa has little control over the police.

"Italian law says police are responsible for public order inside stadiums. Stadia in Italy are municipal stadiums, they are not the property of the club," he told BBC Radio Five Live.

"We are definitely in favour of soft policing, which is clearly the use of stewards who we know can handle a difficult situation probably better than riot police.

"We are subject to the law so we cannot tell the Italians and other countries where police are in charge of public order in stadia not to enter stadia.

"We are just a football authority not a law and order authority."

http://www.dailymotion.com/Matthier...kk_crowd-fights

Video footage, Italian police beating some old guy as he's lying across the seats trying to protect himself. Utterly disgraceful. The Italians will make out that this guy was a hooligan but people aren't gonna keep buying the myth that all English are hooligans, it gives police free license to do what they want with them.

Nothing happened to our fans when I was out.

In fact I had a great time drinking with the milanese.

quote:

Originally posted by chesco Nothing happened to our fans when I was out. In fact I had a great time drinking with the milanese.

From what I hear, the supporters in Rome are vastly different from those elsewhere in Italy. The San Siro is supposed to have one of the best stadium atmospheres in Europe while Rome is after all the hub of the ultra supporters whom i dont know much about anyway except that there name seems to come up every time theres trouble in the stands. United fans also say that after they left the stadium, they were cornered by about 100 ultras armed with knives and chains and were beaten by them. I guess those warnings we issued prior to the game did have some justification after all.

I havent seen the footage but a good point has been bought up about stewards policing the game in other leagues but in Italy its the police who provide security in games.

Anders Frisk was busted open 2 seasons ago and now you got the damn cops beating down united supporters. Disgraceful acts and it couldnt have come at a worse time given the current reputation of football in Italy.

Seems like another english team travels abroad and causes yet more trouble - disgraceful scenes in seville. the spurs fans fighting with the police.

Perhaps it's time the english were banished from europe again, it's clear they haven't learned their lesson since last time.

Football hooliganism is going crazy everywhere again. Even here in Portugal we had incidents in the Benfica-Porto game, unfortunately it was a bunch of our ultras, the Super Drag�es, disgusting scum which keeps giving a bad name to our club.

quote:

Originally posted by chesco Seems like another english team travels abroad and causes yet more trouble - disgraceful scenes in seville. the spurs fans fighting with the police. Perhaps it's time the english were banished from europe again, it's clear they haven't learned their lesson since last time.

Come on do you really believe that?

Perhaps you need to travel with some English fans to realise how these things start. You make it sound like the English are watching footy and then half an hour into the game they all decide to have a fight with the police. It doesn't happen like that, it's usually some home fans start throwing objects at the away support, one or two react and then the police go in hard on everybody. Fact is our reputation goes before us and we are treated differently. Any hint of trouble and the police kick off big style.

When I was in the Nou Camp we had loads of police with MP5 automatic weapons standing over us all game. Automatic weapons for fuck sake. What the hell are they gonna to do with those? It's an atmosphere of intimidation and confrontation the second you arrive, you're treated like criminals.

Do you think it's any coincidence that 11 Man Utd fans ended up in hospital but no Italians were hurt? Or that 8 Spurs fans went to hospital yet no Spanish fans were hurt? Yeah sounds like the English were going round fighting everyone doesn't it, yet they're the only ones who got hurt.

The English reputation has been hyped up ridiculously by the press because it sells papers. They're happy to perpetuate the myth. I'm sure not all Man Utd/Spurs fans are angels but I bet you those people you see getting beaten in the videos weren't the ones making the trouble. What often happens in Italy, as happened to us in the San Siro, is that the home fans start hurling missiles, the travelling fans react and the police go in hard on the travelling supporters. They were pissing on our supporters and threw a flare at them for fuck sake, of course people aren't gonna stand about and accept that, espescially when the police are standing watching it and doing nothing. UEFA gave Inter Milan a �40,000 fine for what happened. That's one week's wages for a player, it's nothing, the club just laughed it off.

For me as an English fan the biggest danger about going to European games is the police. It doesn't take much for it all to kick off.

quote:

Originally posted by noikeee Football hooliganism is going crazy everywhere again. Even here in Portugal we had incidents in the Benfica-Porto game, unfortunately it was a bunch of our ultras, the Super Drag�es, disgusting scum which keeps giving a bad name to our club.

What? I thought only the English had hooligans

It is a known fact that Roma hooligans are one of the worst in Italy they are one of the most hated. However Man.U fans dont have the best reputation either, even though most have cleaned up their act in the past years i still feel that at games such as these where there are two hot-headed teams there is always going to be hooliganism. Its hooligans who ruin the games while the decent,loyal fans are the ones paying the price.

Aren't these the same fans who injured Anders Frisk too? It's about time Uefa & fifa stepped in & punished the clubs simply because I think that's the only way some of these 'fans' will learn.

Chesco, you may have had a great time with the milanese, but they're the same fans who in an italy game poured urine from bottles all over the welsh.

As for spurs, i didn't see what happened but Uefa are at fault for not moving the tie on the day of the big parades & religious festivals in seville, that was blatantly going to cause problems & now they've got to accept responsibility for setting up a volatile situation

Spanish police in trouble now. Accused of hitting a disabled fan with a baton, knocking him out of his wheelchair. Was this guy a hooligan too? Some people need to wise up, seriously.

If it's true then the copper responsible should be charged. Absolute disgrace.

quote:

Tottenham accuse Spanish police Tottenham have accused Spanish police of hitting a disabled fan during Thursday's Uefa Cup tie in Seville. Riot police charged away fans midway through the first half of the match as trouble broke out inside the ground. Spurs club secretary John Alexander said: "We know one disabled fan was hit with a baton with such force that it knocked him out of his wheelchair." Uefa has pledged an investigation but government official Faustino Valdes said drunken Spurs fans were to blame. Tottenham have offered their full support to the authorities. "Our initial reports suggest there was no fan-to-fan fighting at any stage of the proceedings," said a club statement. "As such we are seeking explanations as to why the police reacted in the way they did with our fans. "Tottenham supporters have enjoyed an exemplary reputation across Europe this season which is why tonight's events are unprecedented. "We will be co-operating fully with Uefa, the British Embassy and the Spanish authorities to understand why this has happened." The police intervened midway through the first half as the away fans voiced their anger at a contentious penalty won by Sevilla. The fighting continued into the half-time interval but died down when Spurs officials persuaded the Spanish authorities to take the police out of the away section in the second half. Many Spurs supporters have accused police of over-reacting. "It had been a perfect day up to then but was was spoilt by some over-zealous police officers, who started throwing their weight around, for want of a better term," said Daniel Wynne, of Tottenham Hotspur Supporters' Trust. "After the penalty, a couple of fans got a bit excited about that but nothing more than shouting at the pitch. There was no violence. "Spurs fans weren't causing any trouble. The police went over and above acting as stewards." However, Senor Valdes, the Spanish government's representative in Seville said: "We have two police who have suffered some serious blows and we also have arrested some (seven) Tottenham fans who should be now appearing in court." "Some Tottenham fans under the influence of alcohol attacked the private security officers and police, there were some incidents as security tried to overcome the fans and nothing more." "It was an incident surrounding a few people who behaved badly, probably because they had drunk too much." The scenes followed violent clashes between fans and police in Manchester United's Champions League tie in Rome on Wednesday. Uefa has launched investigations into both flashpoints, but communications director William Gaillard said possible sanctions for any of the clubs involved had not been discussed. "Any talk of sanctions is pure speculation, it has not been discussed," he said. "The control and disciplinary body is a a fully independent body and we and they will look at the evidence."

How did the disabled fan get to the seating area where the violence occured - which was a good 15-20 rows up?

Jesus performing miracles at the religious festival?

Heh... regarding the Seville - Tottenham incident, even spanish fans who witnessed the whole mess, blame the police as having provoked and started pretty much all the violence.

I'm sick of the fans of the italian capital, both Lazio and Rome fans are simply racist fuckheads always trying to cause problems, they have always caused so many shit everywhere specially when they're at home.

As for the italian politician with all his statements, what a clueless fag, he must not have seen the video footage where clearly the police started to beat the shit out english fans for no reason.

I for one have always disliked english hooligans, but this time and on both occasions it seems they weren't the cause of the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by chesco How did the disabled fan get to the seating area where the violence occured - which was a good 15-20 rows up? Jesus performing miracles at the religious festival?

I haven't seen all of the videos but the violence was occuring all the way across the stand. They were interviewing the disabled guy on the news earlier, I don't see why he would make it up, it's not like he's sueing some Spanish copper for loads of money is it.

Perhaps it's all one big conspiracy!

the italian police have a bit of a reputation, so why charge the perspex barrier? 50 years in europe and you lot are still clueless...

Incredible ignorance.

Funnily enough Roma fans were charging that perspex barrier too, while launching missiles at the English fans right in front of the police. If you don't believe me the footage is all over the internet, so there's no point in making stuff up.

Why don't they police their own fans, the Roma fans? They were the cause of the problem a year ago and they were the cause of the problem on Wednesday night. Only two months ago an Italian policeman was killed at an Italian football match. Look at Lazio, their openly fascist fans have a section of the stadium to themselves. You can't sit there and tell me that the Italians have their own house in order, it's probably the most corrupt country in western europe and their football is as corrupt as any you care to name. Only last summer they had to relegate the most successful club in Italy in a huge match-fixing scandal. Doesn't it say something that they need big perspex barriers inside their own stadium? We don't have that in any English football grounds, we got rid of that sort of thing years and years ago.

Even the newspapers aren't blaming this one on the English (there's a first), the police have nowhere to hide this time as it was all recorded in front of the eyes of the watching international media. I just hope justice is done.

Italian police are fucking clueless about dealing with European events like this and they are dragging their country's reputation through the mud. Hopefully once and for all some coppers are gonna have the book thrown at them for this. It's the only way it'll stop. The police are not above the law.

Here's some links for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQP6yehL284
This one is taken from a Spurs fan's camera. Things are totally peaceful, nobody is doing anything wrong and suddenly this copper decides to wave his bat around at people. It all happens right in front of the camera.

Chesco, you were talking about the disabled fan? This video (taken by another Spurs fan) shows the police waving their fists around right next to the disabled section (as the Tottenham fans chant 'scum'):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5mjn3iOLRE&mode=related&search=

As for the chair throwing, that happened only a couple of months ago in the same stadium, at the Betis-Sevilla game.

quote:

Originally posted by evil_bastard Incredible ignorance.

i'm assuming this is aimed at me. yes, i'm aware of the missiles being thrown, that there were stewards on the roma side and riot police on the manc side, that roma fans charged the barrier first, and of the overall problems with italian football. that being said, my point was that it was stupid of the mancs to charge the perspex. the police obviously used excessive force in their handling of the situation, but everyone knows how the italian plod are. they were waiting there with their batons ready to twat any manc that so much as looked at them wrong. so why charge the barrier?

Been hearing stuff about this all week..from what ive heard, it isnt really just an issue with foreign fans, as domestically in Italy, if the home team starts some shit, eg throwing stuff at the away fans..the police will do nothing/v.little, but as soon as the opposing fans react, the police will wade in against the away fans...
there are apparantly no go areas for Italian police in certain sections of the ground, where it's not worth their own safety to try and do anything, so they effectively only police the away fans

its not particularly restricted to Rome either, as the Catania incident illustrates.

My opinion is that there is a mentality that sees English fans in particualr as a continuing target for foreign hooligans, thrownback to the days when English hooligans were a major force

Trouble outside Old Trafford tonight involving both Man Utd and Roma fans, bottles and missiles thrown. 4,000 Roma fans in Manchester for the game.

Police contained the incident within 5 minutes. Perhaps the Italian police could learn a thing or two.

This is what I hate about European police, yes the English are by far the worst behaved but these days unlike the past they're not the ones who cause the trouble yet their constantly provaked.

quote:

Originally posted by evil_bastard Trouble outside Old Trafford tonight involving both Man Utd and Roma fans, bottles and missiles thrown. 4,000 Roma fans in Manchester for the game. Police contained the incident within 5 minutes. Perhaps the Italian police could learn a thing or two.

italian police = club to head

english police = club behind the knees.

simple tactics.

We have lots of fights here in Greece in almost every game. Right now football is banned here for 15 days because a man was killed in a fight. :/

I think a few weeks ago someone got killed in a Women's Waterpolo match in Greece? And thats only Waterpolo imagine the football games! I think Italy is becoming the new England of the fact of violence and racism. Hooligans must be banned so the true fans can go and watch their team play.

England have some of the safest football grounds in Europe now but don't get any credit for it. As the old staying goes, mud sticks. We still have a problem with travelling hooligans but we've done more than anyone to try and sort out the problem, and our fans are bombarded with missiles or attacked by police espescially in certain countries which doesn't help at all. Why do you think English hooligans go to Europe for a big fight? It's much easier to find trouble in places like Italy than it is in British stadiums. If hooliganism is going to be stopped/contained then it needs a conscious effort on both sides. If our fans travel to Italy and get no protection then there will be trouble. Even UEFA, who usually dig into the English hooligan culture, are now asking European police forces to learn from and cooperate with the British police because they have the most experience of dealing with it.

quote:

Originally posted by fcuk � I think a few weeks ago someone got killed in a Women's Waterpolo match in Greece? And thats only Waterpolo imagine the football games! I think Italy is becoming the new England of the fact of violence and racism. Hooligans must be banned so the true fans can go and watch their team play.

Yeah that's the same incident I wrote above. A fight was arranged before a women's volleyball game between Olympiakos and Panathinaikos.

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