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Tech Percussion
I'm having lots of trouble trying to make my tracks sound "heavy" or "noisy"
I'm talking Divini and Warning, E-Craig - Home, sorta percussion where there's lots of noise and lots of chatter etc..
Tech Trance type stuff.
I had a search on the net to find if they just simply had techno guides but there were none.
I'm really interested in how they accomplish that mid range noisy type percussion that doesn't really add much to the song but gives it more volume and makes it much more bouncier.
Anyways if anyone has any links to any guides regarding crunchy percussion it'd be great! I've attached a sample so you know what type of percussion i'm talking bout.
Click here for sample
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| Originally posted by echosystm Most techno loops are based around a half bar loop. SO... 1. Make a midi event half a bar long going to your drum sampler. Have that half bar looping. Put two kicks in and one snare (in other words, half a four to the floor beat). 2. Now put a few key percussion hits in. Don't use 100% real sounding drum samples. You need to use half bongos half "percussive fx" type sounds that arent really a drums but arent really shakers but arent really high hats but arent really.... you know what i mean. 3. Put in your main high hat and a hat loop (make the hat loop yourself - make sure it mashes into your percussions good). 4. From here, you have your main elements already, so you start piling in loops to fill up the background. You'll find you can just about do anything, just go through your loops one by one, if it sounds good keep it. Then add another one. Repeat until its full. Now you have your base loop. Double that up so its one full bar and change a few elements in the second repeat. Nothing major (dont touch the "core" rythym). Now, theres a lot of shit going on, so you need to make sure you EQ basically ALL your drum sounds/loops individually to get them cutting through how you want. If you skip good EQing, your percussion loop will just turn into noise and sound empty. Normally in trance you'd cut alot of your percussions at like 200hz or so. In techno you usually let them extend right down to like 100-150 depending on the type of bassline you want to use. Often techno just uses a sine sub bass, so anything above the normal 150hz sub bass area must be filled up with percussion. From here, I put the whole lot (except maybe kick + snare) through a compressor or camelphat etc. Its important to note though, groove is way more important in techno than it is in trance. In a lot of trance just about any percussion loop will sit ok with any bassline. In techno, the bassline is practically part of the percussion - it all needs to sit together EXTERMELY well. So, more often than not you'll find you have to get a good bassline sorted before you even start doing percussion. yay |
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| Originally posted by echosystm K i just wasted 15 mins of my life for you asses, you better appreciate this. http://www.sendspace.com/file/lni39h What I did, is showed the seperate stages. 1. Kick + snare (duh!) 2. Kick + snare + "core" percussions 3. Kick + snare + core + high hats 4. Kick + snare + core + high hats + 3 background loops Get it? Everything is half a bar looped. Normally you would have variations every 2nd and 4th bar etc. but I cbf... BTW. 15 minutes = crap panning, crap compressing (i just used a master limiter LOL) crap everything basically and ZERO eq. So, like, hopefully yours will sound better. Seeing as techno is basically 90% percs, you would spend like a day or whatever just perfecting that one loop. You'd also usually have more than what I put in there. More low frequency sounds too. c======8 ^_^ |
ahhh legend!
but what is usually in the "core" percussion? Snares or something?
Anything 
Snares, rim shots, toms, bongos, shakers, synth stabs, whatever. It depends what kind of sound youre going for... The newer electro/tech type stuff will not use much bongos, but artists like Boriqua Tribez etc. use 100% real bongo sounds.
Ah nice,
Coz i can get a funky number started.. It just feels like it's lacking volume, not as in db, but as in overall volume of the loop, it feels thin. Mainly coz the samples I am using are heaps quick etc...
Thankyou very much and I will have a crack at it with your instructions! I need more practice...
Mess around with lots of delays and maybe some phasers.
Try my VST plugin Float Crush, it's stickied here in the producers forum. It adds a good presence if you boost the 3-5khz range with EQ.
I think what you might be after is the 'harder' tech trance sound... using bongo's and traditional percussion instruments won't get you a very hard sound.... you were on the right track when you asked about snares... try using snares and claps and trimming the length of them so they become new sounds
Yeah I think it's one of those things you just have to do and get used to doing. Like riding a bike sorta. That's how most of production has come across to me so far.
DJing was pretty simple to master... Key matching? Yeah.... Making a fat hard techy loop? Almost impossible haha.
I'm going to experiment with synthesizing some nice white noise to create snares and shakers etc... but I can't find any guides on them so it's trial an error again
decay
| quote: |
| Originally posted by theognis1002 decay |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by ralpheeee OMG.... of course, how could i have been so stupid, all I needed was a one word response and now; suddenly; it all falls into place. Thankyou so much theognis |
There are some pretty cool one shot perc samples in the VEC1+2 sample packs
I've had a squizz through those samples, some of them are ok, I really think I need to start creating my own percussion as opposed to using samples, since I know what sound I want, I just can't squeeze it out of what I have.
Id suggest using some of those samples ( as they are good quality ) as a base, kinda like a recipe. Take the top end of something, the mids of another , the lows of another, layer em all together, throw in a pinch of fx and then bake for half an hour....
Dont just use stock samples, fuk em up a bit and you'll find some uniquesounds.
Alot of this advice is terrible, my guess is many of you have no idea how to do it...
You need to keep most samples short, or your mix will turn to noise. You will literally get so much phasing, the loop will sound EMPTY. To get the sound like the file you posted Cetra3, you would put a loop like mine (obviously I only took 10 minutes to do that, you gotta make it sound better...) and put it through a plugin like CamelPhat. Compression, distortion and filtering are what you need, nothing else... Mainly distortion (techno producers can't live without it).
You will rarely/never use reverb on your percussion. Same goes for delays, all they will do is take up too much space in the mix. You will also rarely/never use flanging/phasing... it's techno...
Maybe for prominent percussion sounds like snares and kicks it is worthwhile fabricating your own samples... but for the rest I would say no. You need a lage folder of percussion sounds and just go through them one by one to find one that fits PERFECTLY. The chance of you fabricating a sample that doesn't just sound good in isolation is slim and theres no need to reinvent the wheel. Further, there will be so much going on you won't even be able to hear which percs you made and which ones you sourced... so it is a waste of time. Focus on putting better patterns together, then you can worry about wank like this.
Hope that helps
| quote: |
| Originally posted by echosystm Alot of this advice is terrible, my guess is many of you have no idea how to do it... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by echosystm put it through a plugin like CamelPhat. Compression, distortion and filtering are what you need, nothing else... Mainly distortion (techno producers can't live without it). You will rarely/never use reverb on your percussion. Same goes for delays, all they will do is take up too much space in the mix. You will also rarely/never use flanging/phasing... it's techno... You need a lage folder of percussion sounds and just go through them one by one to find one that fits PERFECTLY. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by ASFSE oh, and the best advice so far has been the 'decay' statement, cause that's pretty much all you need to fix. |
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| Originally posted by ASFSE who are you to judge...? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by ASFSE how does this help for tech percussion? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by echosystm Alot of this advice is terrible, my guess is many of you have no idea how to do it... |
give me two secs... i'll make something with that loop with the aforementioned filtering and whatever
http://www.mediafire.com/?3imckwdid9d
Now lets see what you can do in that time (45 mins?)... ralph. Its 1:25 now, so you've got until 2:00
Ok but seriously...
The only reason I said what I said is because some people were clearly just talking out their asses, which is not going to help Cetra3 at all... Actually it will just confuse the fuck out of him and waste his time... I could have been nice about it, but it's just not in my nature haha.
Yeah i have camelphat. It's pretty good and stuff. I still think a bit of white noise maybe with a gate or some nice filter envelopes will make it sound a bit more 'dirty'
people like Borique Tribes use some sidechained white noise to make it sound more 'full' and vibrant. That's sorta what i'm going for.. A nice gritty sound, unique and refined at all at the same time haha.
wtf? we're all from adelaide
i thought i was the only person from adelaide with the internet... crazy!
hahah funny shit!
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