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#756!

say whatever you want about steroids. congrats to Bonds tho.

damn sweet shot.

Maybe the media will STFU about Bonds finally?

the dude who caught the ball, money in the bank for him!

finally. it's about time he hits 756*. now we can move on, and talk about some real baseball that's going on at the moment.

I'm glad its over, now I can BENCH his ass on my fantasy team... he'll probably hit 4 more HR's by the end of the season...

He's a whiner, a showboat, a liar, an unfaithful husband, a bad father, an asshole, a racist, and, of course, a cheater with no respect for the game or anyone besides himself. I see no reason to praise him for anything. He has no redeeming traits.

How anyone can cheer for him or support him in any way, shape, or form is beyond me. It takes a lot of ignorance or complete delusion to find him at all worthy of respect.

alright say he doesn't use steroids, how many home runs would he hit. and how many MVPs would he win. etc.

the man still have skills regardless of what kind of person he is. Michael Jordan is a jackass too.

he would have around 600, and he would be considered one of the great players in history, but his character would still be the same. Michael Jordan is not even relevant to a discussion about Bonds.

Re: #756!

I was happy to hear Bud called Barry to congratulate him. Bud really should have been there though. Steroids is baseball's problem and Bud shouldn't act holier than thou now that the record is broken. Barry might be an ass and I'm 98% sure he took steroids but so did a lot of people and that didn't make everyone break records. Whatever congrats to Bonds.

in the mid 90's... I actually went as far and said he was the best overall OF in the game... yes, over Griffey... therefore, I thought he was the best overall LF EVER... not a better hitter than Ted Williams of course, but better overall player...

but now... i don't even know, i don't even care really...

Barry has amazing contact, and I guess you might argue its because hes a roidhead and can swing the bat quicker, but I think thats bullshit... he still is an amazing contact hitter in my opinion... therefore I think he'd be going for 3000 hits over 600 HR's right now if he never roided up...

i'm just curious to see if he finally comes to the AL next season, or if the Giants pay him ridiculous amounts of money again... or he retires... I wouldn't pay over 5 million a season for the guy...

Re: Re: #756!

quote:

Originally posted by chimera66 Steroids is baseball's problem

PR-wise, yes. Integrity-of-the-game-wise, no. Almost everybody is on HGH, since there's no test for it, and you could even argue that it has a greater effect. Barry Bonds wouldn't even be playing anymore if it wasn't for HGH.

quote:

Originally posted by chimera66 I'm 98% sure he took steroids

He's admitted to it. Why are you 2% unsure?

quote:

Originally posted by chimera66 but so did a lot of people and that didn't make everyone break records.

This is the argument I hate more than any other (except for the "well, we don't know what did or didn't go on" one), because it's irrelevant. If we have an entire generation of players who are cheating, is it now ok? NO. First of all, not everyone was cheating (like Griffey, who was clearly the best player of the 90s, and one of the greatest of all time imo), so saying "well, they didn't break records" is a short-sighted statement. Second, the fact that it's widespread simply means that more people are working on corroding the foundation of the game. Last time I checked, being part of a group doesn't alleviate any guilt. This seems to be a baseball-only phenomenon, as well. Nobody's sitting around defending Ben Johnson.

quote:

Originally posted by King Ecnal in the mid 90's... I actually went as far and said he was the best overall OF in the game... yes, over Griffey... therefore, I thought he was the best overall LF EVER... not a better hitter than Ted Williams of course, but better overall player...

While I completely disagree, that's at least an argument that isn't rooted in absurdity, but it's also irrelevant. That he was good before he started taking steroids & HGH & whatever else doesn't make any future accomplishments validated & deserved. All it does mean is that he's even more of an egomaniac than he had seemed, and the fact that he wasn't satisfied with 5-600 home runs & 500 stolen bases, and was so overcome with jealousy & a sense of entitlement that he chose to betray the game that's given him everything he has just adds to that.

quote:

Originally posted by King Ecnal Barry has amazing contact, and I guess you might argue its because hes a roidhead and can swing the bat quicker, but I think thats bullshit... he still is an amazing contact hitter in my opinion... therefore I think he'd be going for 3000 hits over 600 HR's right now if he never roided up...

Yes, he's always been a great contact hitter, but taking steroids absolutely helps that. It's the same as in any sport. The stronger you are, yes, the harder you can hit or shoot the ball, but it also means you can achieve the same result with far less exertion. Less exertion means greater control.

Second, in something like baseball, where the direction of the ball doesn't matter as much as the distance, even if you don't go by the theory of reducing exertion & he's swinging the same speed, it now means that his misses go much farther. Fly-outs become home runs, doubles go into the Cove, ground-outs are base hits, & bloopers allow runners to tag up. Solid contact will always be solid contact, but it's the mis-hits.

I seriously doubt he'd have 3000 hits, simply because he would have retired years ago without HGH, and he wasn't even at 2000 before he started taking steroids, after 13 years in the league. He might have hit 600 HR, but again, he needed over 150 more to get there. If you figure he averages about 30-35 per season after 1998, he'd need to play for 4-5 more years, and that's right on the edge. Even with everything he did, he looked like he'd never play again 2 seasons ago.

quote:

Originally posted by King Ecnal i'm just curious to see if he finally comes to the AL next season, or if the Giants pay him ridiculous amounts of money again... or he retires... I wouldn't pay over 5 million a season for the guy...

If he does, it'll be his decision, not the Giants', because he's worth more than anything they can pay him. The only reason people go to the games is to see if Barry can slug one over the fence & show-up the pitcher while he stands there admiring it. Add the media & merchandise boosts, and he's almost invaluable to them.

quote:

Originally posted by chimera66 Whatever congrats to Bonds.

Fuck no.

Re: Re: Re: #756!

quote:

Originally posted by shaw PR-wise, yes. Integrity-of-the-game-wise, no. Almost everybody is on HGH, since there's no test for it, and you could even argue that it has a greater effect.

I forgot to mention that the baseball's economic issues trump all of this, because competition is more important than records, and having only a handful of relevant teams each decade can kill a game. Cheating by individuals can not.

Griffey is *clearly* a better player than Bonds? You might want to clean the fog off your lenses 'cause that's *clearly* not the case.

Both were great defenders. Both hit for about the same average. Both hit for, roughly, the same power. But... Bonds stole many more bases than Griffey did. And he also much higher OBPs than Griffey did. What was Griffey much better than Bonds in?

quote:

Originally posted by Shamez214 Griffey is *clearly* a better player than Bonds? You might want to clean the fog off your lenses 'cause that's *clearly* not the case. Both were great defenders. Both hit for about the same average. Both hit for, roughly, the same power. But... Bonds stole many more bases than Griffey did. And he also much higher OBPs than Griffey did. What was Griffey much better than Bonds in?

injuries!

quote:

Originally posted by Shamez214 Griffey is *clearly* a better player than Bonds? You might want to clean the fog off your lenses 'cause that's *clearly* not the case.

Didn't I say i was talking about the MID 90's!!!!!

if you were living under a rock back then.... well Griffey was the best player ever, he was going to break the HR Record... EVERYTHING....

but yes, NOW, Griffey is nothing cause of the injuries.... I'm not comparing Griffey to Bonds as of 2007.... duh... who would??? You'd have to be on crack...

now the big question is when Griffey evetually hits 600, and imo will surpass the rest of the guys to be at least 5th all time before retiring, does he deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? Griffey was the man back then. yeah Bonds was the better guy putting up stats from left to right, but Griffey entertained the crowd every night. The reason why he had all those injuries in the past, because he kept running into the wall.

quote:

Originally posted by King Ecnal Didn't I say i was talking about the MID 90's!!!!! if you were living under a rock back then.... well Griffey was the best player ever, he was going to break the HR Record... EVERYTHING.... but yes, NOW, Griffey is nothing cause of the injuries.... I'm not comparing Griffey to Bonds as of 2007.... duh... who would??? You'd have to be on crack...

Ummm... I'm talking about the 90's too. In the 90's, Bonds and Griffey were both winning Gold Gloves. They were both hitting home runs. They were both hitting around .300.

Griffey hit 382 homeruns as opposed to Bonds' 361 during the '90s. Not a big difference.

Griffey won 10 Gold Gloves during the 90's, one every year. Bonds won 8. Not a big difference.

Bonds' OBP was above .400 every year in the 90's except '99. Griffey's was above .400 only twice. A huge difference.

From 1990 - 1999, Bonds stole 343 bases. Griffey stole 157 during the same time. Again, a huge difference.

Bonds had 3 MVPs, Griffey had 1.

So really... how was Griffey better?

quote:

Originally posted by LeopoldStotch now the big question is when Griffey evetually hits 600, and imo will surpass the rest of the guys to be at least 5th all time before retiring, does he deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? Griffey was the man back then. yeah Bonds was the better guy putting up stats from left to right, but Griffey entertained the crowd every night. The reason why he had all those injuries in the past, because he kept running into the wall.

Are you seriously asking that question?

quote:

Originally posted by Shamez214 Are you seriously asking that question?

Griffey hater!

quote:

Originally posted by LeopoldStotch Griffey hater!

I actually love Griffey and think he, Bonds, and Frank Thomas were, unquestionably, the 3 best players of the 90's. But, I don't think either of those two were as complete of a player as Bonds was. Bonds was Willie Mays. But most people tend to be clouded by that steroid shit and completely disregard how great of a player Bonds was during the 90s.

On Edit:

Just to be more clear, all three of those players are no-doubt Hall of Famers to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Shamez214 Ummm... I'm talking about the 90's too. In the 90's, Bonds and Griffey were both winning Gold Gloves. They were both hitting home runs. They were both hitting around .300. Griffey hit 382 homeruns as opposed to Bonds' 361 during the '90s. Not a big difference. Griffey won 10 Gold Gloves during the 90's, one every year. Bonds won 8. Not a big difference. Bonds' OBP was above .400 every year in the 90's except '99. Griffey's was above .400 only twice. A huge difference. From 1990 - 1999, Bonds stole 343 bases. Griffey stole 157 during the same time. Again, a huge difference. Bonds had 3 MVPs, Griffey had 1. So really... how was Griffey better?

Griffey was still a KID!!!!!!!

Bonds was in his prime... Griffey was in his 20's!!!

end of discussion!

and stop drudging up stats to back up your crackpot theories... thanks...lol...

this is a stupid question, but did bond ever win the world series?

quote:

Originally posted by Kapedan this is a stupid question, but did bond ever win the world series?

Nope.

quote:

Originally posted by LeopoldStotch now the big question is when Griffey evetually hits 600, and imo will surpass the rest of the guys to be at least 5th all time before retiring, does he deserve to be in the Hall of Fame? Griffey was the man back then. yeah Bonds was the better guy putting up stats from left to right, but Griffey entertained the crowd every night. The reason why he had all those injuries in the past, because he kept running into the wall.

Gale Sayers is in the Hall of Fame. /discussion.

As for Griffey vs. Bonds, yes, Barry was a good fielder, but you have to consider that he was playing the easiest position on a baseball field aside from DH or 1B. Gold Gloves don't put him on par with the greatest fielder at any position in decades, especially when he was playing the 2nd most demanding position on the field (besides catcher). As mentioned earlier, as well, Griffey is 6 years younger than Bonds.

for another quick stat, Griffey had far more RBIs than Bonds. Bonds had 130 ONCE in his career--in 2001, with 73 home runs. Griffey went 140, 147, 146, 137 from '96-'99.

quote:

Originally posted by inconspicuous Gale Sayers is in the Hall of Fame. /discussion. As for Griffey vs. Bonds, yes, Barry was a good fielder, but you have to consider that he was playing the easiest position on a baseball field aside from DH or 1B. Gold Gloves don't put him on par with the greatest fielder at any position in decades, especially when he was playing the 2nd most demanding position on the field (besides catcher). As mentioned earlier, as well, Griffey is 6 years younger than Bonds. for another quick stat, Griffey had far more RBIs than Bonds. Bonds had 130 ONCE in his career--in 2001, with 73 home runs. Griffey went 140, 147, 146, 137 from '96-'99.

Gold Gloves are given to any 3 outfielders, usually 3 centerfielders. When Bonds won his Gold Gloves, that meant he was one of the top 3 outfielders in baseball, not just the best Left Fielder.

Bonds also never struck out more than he walked during the 90s. Griffey did every year except 1993.

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