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Production Gear

Ok this is an exciting post for me. I've decided to make the move from DJ to Producer!

So, what gear do I need to purchase? (I tried search)

For a computer, I'm deciding between these two:

http://www.apple.com/macbook/macbook.html
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/

Is the regular Macbook powerful enough, or do I need the pro?

Now, do I need a physical mixing board or will I do that stuff on the computer? What software should I buy? I assume I'll need to pick up some kind of keyboard right?

What else do I need?

Thanks!!

Congratulations. You found the right forum.

quote:

Originally posted by stevebutabi (I tried search)

No you didn't. All your questions are answered by the stickies.

quote:

Originally posted by stevebutabi What else do I need?

Common sense... (as suggested in the last thread, which you seem to have ignored).

If you can't even work out the bare basics of what you "need" to buy, you won't get very far in this hobby. Like I said in your post in the DJ forum, which you have now deleted, you need to understand that you are the kind of person who takes up producing for a month and then quits. At this point you will be left with a $2,000 Macbook, a Virus TI, a Novation Remote SL61 and a ProtoolsHD system you never actually used.

I'm not being a cvnt, I'm just telling you the truth. You probably don't like hearing this.

"Give them the answer and they will be inspired for a moment. Give them the motivation to seek the answer themselves, and they will be inspired for a lifetime."

I recommend you start learning how to learn, because music production requires more than any class you've ever taken at school. Answers to your questions are easily found, without expecting to be spoon-fed. Make the effort.

Dude, take it easy. I read the sticky, and it was way to vague in terms of what equipment to buy.

It's my fault, I should have been a little more specific in my questions:

-As a beginner, am I better off using external hardware like a keyboard in my productions, or should I only use my laptop?

-I've read about Reason vs Logic. From what I read, Reason seems to be the best software to start out with, so I think I'll try that. However, is Ableton on par with Reason in terms of difficulty? Do those two programs have similar capabilities?

-Do I need a Macbook Pro, or can I get the regular Macbook?

Any other advice regarding startup equipment would be appreciated!

If money is no object, then go for the pro.

However, the difference in cost vs. performance is IMO not worth it.

You can pick up great deals on the high spec macbook (2.16 ghz) and this will be more than enough processing power (with decent RAM - 1gig min.) for you until you get good enough to need more. That will be a good couple of years down the line and you will have gotten your money's worth from it by then.

This saved money is better spent on a good soundcard (motu/m-audio/Echosystem/Digidesign/RME/etc.). Get something with at least 4 ins and outs (if not 8) as this will allow you to integrate kit as you progress.

You will need decent monitor speakers (search for any one of the million threads here) and I would suggest getting a monitor screen for when you are at home and want to have a clearer view.

Cables - get decent cables (not shitty premoulded) as most people over look this and it can really affect the quality of your system.

Software:
At minimum you will need a sequencer (cubase, logic, reason etc.) and a wave editor (bias - peak is very good).
Then some soft synths (again search).

this is all you really need to get going!

Ok, seriously stevebutabi, you're not getting it. I should explain better. You NEED to find these answers yourself, by gathering information about them and making an educated decision, NOT asking everyone else what you should do. Most of the questions you're asking come down to nothing but preference. All you are doing is exposing yourself to, and adopting, someone elses bias. This is a sure-fire way to make a bad decision. You'll find this applies to almost everything in producing music.

Examples:

-As a beginner, am I better off using external hardware like a keyboard in my productions, or should I only use my laptop?

Find a hardware vs. software thread on this forum. You'll see they turn into 100 page flamewars of total bs. The end answer is always - "whichever you prefer".

-I've read about Reason vs Logic. From what I read, Reason seems to be the best software to start out with, so I think I'll try that. However, is Ableton on par with Reason in terms of difficulty? Do those two programs have similar capabilities?

Same deal. Look for sequencer debates - nothing but flamewars. I recommend you get a copy of every sequencer and try them all for at least a week. Whichever one you like the best, you should use.

-Do I need a Macbook Pro, or can I get the regular Macbook?

AGAIN, same deal. This depends entirely on what software you want to run, as some are more intensive than others. Without even deciding on a sequencer, how can you YOURSELF even make a decision on this? Besides, who says you need a Mac? Search for mac vs. pc threads for more flamewars.

This thread will turn into a flamewar, probably.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN If money is no object, then go for the pro. However, the difference in cost vs. performance is IMO not worth it. You can pick up great deals on the high spec macbook (2.16 ghz) and this will be more than enough processing power (with decent RAM - 1gig min.) for you until you get good enough to need more. That will be a good couple of years down the line and you will have gotten your money's worth from it by then. This saved money is better spent on a good soundcard (motu/m-audio/Echosystem/Digidesign/RME/etc.). Get something with at least 4 ins and outs (if not 8) as this will allow you to integrate kit as you progress. You will need decent monitor speakers (search for any one of the million threads here) and I would suggest getting a monitor screen for when you are at home and want to have a clearer view. Cables - get decent cables (not shitty premoulded) as most people over look this and it can really affect the quality of your system. Software: At minimum you will need a sequencer (cubase, logic, reason etc.) and a wave editor (bias - peak is very good). Then some soft synths (again search). this is all you really need to get going!

Thanks!!! I'll make sure to get a quality sound card. So I can't do everything in my headphones? I'll guess I'll have to pick up some monitor speakers too. Regarding the screen, already have a great one.

As for cables, I have some good ones, but I'll pick up more if needed.

So I need a wave editor plus some soft synths to supplement Reason or whatever sequencer I choose? May I ask what they do?

Also I'm not sure whether to get a MIDI controller or not. I've never used one, so I don't know how I could have a preference on the subject.

What I do know I would prefer is having an external mixing board to fade the channels in and out. Is there a cheap (under $300) effective one I could use?

quote:

Originally posted by stevebutabi What I do know I would prefer is having an external mixing board to fade the channels in and out.

Can I ask why?

quote:

Originally posted by G-Con Can I ask why?

I figure it would be easier to use, but maybe I'm wrong - this is why I posted here! I have zero production experience.

The closest thing I've done to producing is go on Sasha's website and play with the Wavy Gravy tool!

If you're completely new to producing, go as cheap as possible. You can learn the basics and get a feel for whether or not you're likely to see it through for a year or two, after which time you might start making music someone else might want to listen to. Also, learning on the cheapest option will really make you appreciate your later purchases. Reason is a good option to start with, it has synths, samplers, effects, mixers, all the elements it'd be good to learn about. Then, if you expand later, you can rewire it to other software and keep using it. (Or maybe an even better option is this freeware "reaper" sequencer...I haven't tried it personally, but it's probably worth a shot...get that and some free vst synths & effects - easiest way to find out whether producing's right for you or not!)

A cheap MIDI or USB keyboard is handy for working out chords and melodies.

Cheap monitors/ speakers will provide enough detail to mix with, until your ears develop beyond them.

For the first 6 months at least, anything more would be a waste.

quote:

Originally posted by derail If you're completely new to producing, go as cheap as possible. You can learn the basics and get a feel for whether or not you're likely to see it through for a year or two, after which time you might start making music someone else might want to listen to. Also, learning on the cheapest option will really make you appreciate your later purchases. Reason is a good option to start with, it has synths, samplers, effects, mixers, all the elements it'd be good to learn about. Then, if you expand later, you can rewire it to other software and keep using it. (Or maybe an even better option is this freeware "reaper" sequencer...I haven't tried it personally, but it's probably worth a shot...get that and some free vst synths & effects - easiest way to find out whether producing's right for you or not!) A cheap MIDI or USB keyboard is handy for working out chords and melodies. Cheap monitors/ speakers will provide enough detail to mix with, until your ears develop beyond them. For the first 6 months at least, anything more would be a waste.

Thanks a lot for the advice.

What do you think about this: http://www.ableton.com/pages/operator/showcase/movie

Looks like a cool combo with Live! It seems that notes can be laid out in the program, so MIDI/keyboard isn't necessary, but I think I'll take your advice and pick up something cheap.

Are the synths in Reason 'better' than the those in Live/Operator?

quote:

Originally posted by stevebutabi Are the synths in Reason 'better' than the those in Live/Operator?

"Better" is a pretty broad term when it comes to production tools. It's all a matter of preference, really.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery "Better" is a pretty broad term when it comes to production tools. It's all a matter of preference, really.

Yeah I saw that coming! That's why I put it in quotes. How about, which is easier to use, more flexible, better applied to dance tracks, etc....

The Operator video kind of has me sold on Ableton, but I think I'm too unfamiliar w Reason to make that judgment.

The problem w Operator is that there is no Demo. You have to purchase Live to try it.

Operator isn't the easiest synth to learn for a beginner. Don't be wow'd by demos on sites, they are meant to impress.

Best thing for you to do is

a)download demo of ableton. you can do everything but save. use it for a a couple of weeks. see how you like it.

b)download demo of reason. do the same.

by that point you'll have a much better idea which one is for you.

All synths are suitable for dance music. they are all capable of producing great sounds when you know how to use them so no point asking which is better for this or that.

you don't NEED a midi keyboard but it can be more fun/creative to have one. but many producers dont have one so again, maybe hold off buying one to begin with. all sequencers have piano rolls anyway.

I wouldnt bother with an external mixing desk. it will be a complete waste at this point (and maybe at any point)

Re: Production Gear

quote:

Originally posted by stevebutabi Ok this is an exciting post for me. I've decided to make the move from DJ to Producer! So, what gear do I need to purchase? (I tried search) For a computer, I'm deciding between these two: http://www.apple.com/macbook/macbook.html http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/ Is the regular Macbook powerful enough, or do I need the pro? Now, do I need a physical mixing board or will I do that stuff on the computer? What software should I buy? I assume I'll need to pick up some kind of keyboard right? What else do I need? Thanks!!

u need da pro

quote:

Originally posted by G-Con Operator isn't the easiest synth to learn for a beginner. Don't be wow'd by demos on sites, they are meant to impress. Best thing for you to do is a)download demo of ableton. you can do everything but save. use it for a a couple of weeks. see how you like it. b)download demo of reason. do the same. by that point you'll have a much better idea which one is for you. All synths are suitable for dance music. they are all capable of producing great sounds when you know how to use them so no point asking which is better for this or that. you don't NEED a midi keyboard but it can be more fun/creative to have one. but many producers dont have one so again, maybe hold off buying one to begin with. all sequencers have piano rolls anyway. I wouldnt bother with an external mixing desk. it will be a complete waste at this point (and maybe at any point)

Thanks, I'll def try demos of both.

Regarding the external mixing desk, I thought it would be good for me because I've been dj'ing for years now, and I'm used to turning knobs and sliding faders with my fingers instead of a mouse. Am I off base with that?

quote:

Originally posted by stevebutabi Thanks, I'll def try demos of both. Regarding the external mixing desk, I thought it would be good for me because I've been dj'ing for years now, and I'm used to turning knobs and sliding faders with my fingers instead of a mouse. Am I off base with that?

If by mixing desk, you mean a unit purely to control the levels of each channel and master gain etc then its not necessary because you wont need to alter those things "live" and you will only alter them now and then but not much.

You can get a midi controller which you then assign the knobs and faders on it to control the knobs and faders on screen (you choose what controls what) but again this isn't really necessary for production when you're not performing live. Some people do use them though so it might be for you.

But certainly at this stage, there is no point. First learn a sequencer, synths etc. Then once you understand how the operation of these things work, you'll know how useful a midi controller will be for you.

In addition, a mixing desk isn't going to do you much good without some hardware to plug into it. SO, if you are operating in a purely software environment, without any external hardware whatsoever, then the mixing desk will do nothing.

Just making sure you are not thinking the mixing desk will control the virtual mixer inside ableton. That's not what it will do.

I thought the mixing desk WAS the external hardware! A little confused.

Hmm... so if I'm putting together a track on Ableton, I can't make the channels on the mixing desk correspond to the different components of my track on Ableton? Like one channel will be the bass, one to a synth, one to a snare, etc?

If that won't be possible, then I guess I won't want a mixing desk. However, the fact I could assign all the knobs on screen to the board would be pretty cool - though I guess not necessary.

Here's what I'm looking at: http://www.ableton.com/pages/shop/bundles
(scroll down a bit)

I figure I could save money by buying a bundle that includes a small piece of hardware. From your suggestions, it sounds like I'd be better off getting one with a small MIDI player. Maybe this one? http://www.ableton.com/pages/shop/m...em=80224-521400

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery "Better" is a pretty broad term when it comes to production tools. It's all a matter of preference, really.

Hmm no negativity?

quote:

Originally posted by camsr Hmm no negativity?

You know, just once it would be fun to post something without getting a completely irrelevant and pointless remark. If you can't stay on topic why even bother posting?

quote:

Originally posted by stevebutabi I thought the mixing desk WAS the external hardware! A little confused.

When I mention external hardware I'm referring to external hardware synthesizers, Effects Processors, etc...

quote:

Originally posted by stevebutabi Hmm... so if I'm putting together a track on Ableton, I can't make the channels on the mixing desk correspond to the different components of my track on Ableton?

Not with out a multi in/out audio interface. Besides, it becomes redundant at that point because there is a VIRTUAL mixer inside Ableton that performs the same functions that an external mixing board would perform if you had external synths, FX, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by stevebutabi Like one channel will be the bass, one to a synth, one to a snare, etc?

Yes this is how it works, but its inside your VIRTUAL mixer.
Look at this page:
Live 6 virtual mixer

The picture next to The Session View shows the virtual mixer. That IS your mixing board.

quote:

Originally posted by stevebutabi If that won't be possible, then I guess I won't want a mixing desk. However, the fact I could assign all the knobs on screen to the board would be pretty cool - though I guess not necessary.

That is not possible with a traditional analog mixing desk. That only becomes possible when you use something like Mackie Universal Control, which is essentially a fancy MIDI controller. You are not to the point where you need to drop $1,200 on that yet.

quote:

Originally posted by stevebutabi Here's what I'm looking at: http://www.ableton.com/pages/shop/bundles (scroll down a bit) I figure I could save money by buying a bundle that includes a small piece of hardware. From your suggestions, it sounds like I'd be better off getting one with a small MIDI player. Maybe this one? http://www.ableton.com/pages/shop/m...em=80224-521400

The hardware is not necessary, but it can help. Getting a MIDI keyboard is only really useful if you are comfrotable composing like you would when writing on a piano. Some producers simply input notes in the Piano Roll, and some like to bang out melodies using a MIDI controller like they would on a Piano.

This is a matter of personal preference. I'm not a piano player at all but I like coming up with melodies on a piano-style MIDI controller, so that's why I have one. Your Milage May Vary.

quote:

Originally posted by palm get reason, all u need for a few years. 500$ and all-in-one aplication. if u find out that u are able to produce music after a few years u can invest in some more gear then. this is what i did atleast and i feel that what i learned in reason has helped alot with other stuff too.

stevebutabi, palm is correct. Reason is probably your best bet right now. I would heed his advice and go with Reason first. Then once you know your way around a little bit, you can decide if moving on to other software/hardware is right for you.

Well, Ableton is roughly the same price as Reason. So you guys are saying that Ableton is not an all-in-one application like Reason, and that Reason is more easy to use?

quote:

Originally posted by stevebutabi Well, Ableton is roughly the same price as Reason. So you guys are saying that Ableton is not an all-in-one application like Reason, and that Reason is more easy to use?

Reason is basically a "studio in a box". It is designed to be an "all-in-one" solution for producing music. It is a software recreation of an entire hardware studio. All the Synthesizers/Effects/Everything are contained inside one software program.

Reason will not work with external hardware (mostly) or software such as VST instruments. You'll have to use something called Rewire to make that work (but don't worry about that now).

Where as Ableton is a Digital Audio Workstation. Ableton is made to work with external AND/OR software synthesizers/Effects.

To oversimplfy it, Ableton is just a "piece" of the puzzle. Reason is ALL the pieces.

Reason may be easier for you to use than Ableton, but that will be up to you to decide. Download the demo for Reason and try it out yourself.

Those of us on this thread are just suggesting that Reason is probably a better and/or easier choice for a beginner who is just starting out.

DISCLAIMER: I know that this is a sweeping generalization to most of us more expierienced producers, I'm just trying to explain the concept here as simply as possible.

I see. Thanks again for the helpful advice. I'll try out a demo of Reason on my current Mac before I purchase Ableton or anything else. It only has 516MB of RAM though... will that cut it?


Also just 1 more question: what exactly can Reason do that Ableton (including Operator, which has synths and effects) can't? It seems like Ableton can do everything, but maybe those videos are a little too effective!

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