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what tutorials have helped you the most with eqing
hey guys. im a reason user and the last couple of months i have fallen off making music. the two resons are; i've downloaded way too many free and demo refills, and now my sound banks are an unsorted mess. second and mainly i need to learn how to porperly eq my sounds espeially the drums and bass, cuz i figure whats the piont in making anything if the sounds aren't gonna be right.
so what im asking for is, where can i go online to find the best tutorials for eqing, and compressing and such. prefferably ones that relate what there talking about to the set up of reason. and or a step by step method of eqing and compressing.
one thing that has been confusing me is; ive read about boosting eqs in kicks and basses to get a better sound but ive also read the you should only use eqs to cut a sound. i only use kicks from Vengeance Clubs Sounds Vol. 1 & 2. i belive i have read on here that you dont need to eq or compress them, cuz theve already been eqed and compressed? .
as you can see im going in circles here and i really need to find some solid step by step info. so any help would be hugely appritated.
thanks
A lot of the Vengeance kicks are fine to use as is (but I'll generally make a few cuts at certain frequencies if other instruments are taking up room in those areas)
As a very general rule, cut to make sounds sound better, boost to make sounds sound different. Generally, narrow Qs for cuts, wide Qs for boosts.
So if you're happy with the overall sound of something but it's just a little bit hot at a particular frequency, cut at that frequency and the instrument will sound better in the mix.
If you're not happy with where a particular sound is at, frequency-wise, but you are happy with the sound per se, then maybe give it a big boost at a particular frequency where it sounds good, depending on what other sounds you have. For example, you might give a bass a big boost around 1kHz to dramatically alter it's sound and punch it through there, if that sounds good to you.
With electronic music, feel free to go nuts with eq. Synthesizers don't have a "natural" sound. If you do too much eqing with real instruments like vocals, guitars, pianos and so on it's going to sound strange, but with synths, anything goes, in my opinion.
I can't really help with online resources...there would definitely be some great tutorials on tranceaddict somewhere. I personally like the book 'The mixing engineer's handbook' by Bobby Owsinski. It's not a detailed "you should always eq and compress like this" explanation, because an explanation like that doesn't exist. This is art, not mathematics. But it does give general guidelines and has great interviews which get into a lot of different engineer's mixing philosophies, and I've learned a lot from that. You just have to keep in mind that a lot of what they're talking about has to do with recording and mixing real instruments. Still, a lot can be learned from that book.
make sure you have a nice monitoring setup. then you can hear what needs to be done 'eq' wise.
Exactly, EQ-ing isn't particularly hard when you have a decent sound system. You'll learn it pretty quick once you got some monitor speakers. Just takes some trial and error after that.
to learn to "use" and "know" what a eq does is very easy. the harder part is that you have the right feeling how a single sound should be eq'd so that all the sounds fit together in the mix.
most people's mistake is, that they try to make all used synths to sound very fat on its own. but the problem is that this only sounds great when a single sound is playing alone. in the mix this doesn't work because there's not enough space to have so many fat sounds. each one is fighting for the needed space and the dynamics are gone.
so, the important thing while eqing is to have the feeling for how it sounds in context and not how can i make this synth sound fat. but this is something you need to learn with experience. just try and thin out some sounds. it will help much more than you would have expected.
I found the Tutorials here very helpfull. I had a buddy teach me some things, that helped the most.
Kick samples may be fine uncompressed, but if you do a kick fill with more than 4 notes in a measure, it can get too loud. You can use volume control, compression, or both, to keep the sound level under control. I usually don't EQ kicks or basses, I let the mastering EQ tighten up the low end. I use subtractive EQing 99% of the time. You want the kick and the bass to have the low end all to themselves, therefore you use subtractive EQing to take the low end out of any pads and leads. Well, that's the simple explanation.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by derail
A lot of the Vengeance kicks are fine to use as is (but I'll generally make a few cuts at certain frequencies if other instruments are taking up room in those areas)
As a very general rule, cut to make sounds sound better, boost to make sounds sound different. Generally, narrow Qs for cuts, wide Qs for boosts.
So if you're happy with the overall sound of something but it's just a little bit hot at a particular frequency, cut at that frequency and the instrument will sound better in the mix.
If you're not happy with where a particular sound is at, frequency-wise, but you are happy with the sound per se, then maybe give it a big boost at a particular frequency where it sounds good, depending on what other sounds you have. For example, you might give a bass a big boost around 1kHz to dramatically alter it's sound and punch it through there, if that sounds good to you.
Thanks. now let me some this up to se if i understand correctly.
1. vengeance kicks dont need to be EQed, but maybe some compression if im doing kick rolls, which i usually do but i cut the length down so the sound doesnt over lap.
2. where you talking about cutting the frequencey in the 3rd paragraph, you are reffering to instruments? is that right?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by richg101 make sure you have a nice monitoring setup. then you can hear what needs to be done 'eq' wise. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by thecYrus to learn to "use" and "know" what a eq does is very easy. the harder part is that you have the right feeling how a single sound should be eq'd so that all the sounds fit together in the mix. most people's mistake is, that they try to make all used synths to sound very fat on its own. but the problem is that this only sounds great when a single sound is playing alone. in the mix this doesn't work because there's not enough space to have so many fat sounds. each one is fighting for the needed space and the dynamics are gone. so, the important thing while eqing is to have the feeling for how it sounds in context and not how can i make this synth sound fat. but this is something you need to learn with experience. just try and thin out some sounds. it will help much more than you would have expected. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by zodiac9 I found the Tutorials here very helpfull. I had a buddy teach me some things, that helped the most. Kick samples may be fine uncompressed, but if you do a kick fill with more than 4 notes in a measure, it can get too loud. You can use volume control, compression, or both, to keep the sound level under control. I usually don't EQ kicks or basses, I let the mastering EQ tighten up the low end. I use subtractive EQing 99% of the time. You want the kick and the bass to have the low end all to themselves, therefore you use subtractive EQing to take the low end out of any pads and leads. Well, that's the simple explanation. |
basically what ive been doing is following this , that was posted a few weeks ago.
General:
20 Hz and below - impossible to detect, remove as it only adds unnecessary energy to the total sound, thereby most probably holding down the overall volume of the track
60 Hz and below - sub bass (feel only)
80(-100) Hz - feel AND hear bass
100-120 Hz - the "club sound system punch" resides here
200 Hz and below - bottom
250 Hz - notch filter here can add thump to a kick drum
150-400 Hz - boxiness
200 Hz-1.5 KHz - punch, fatness, impact
800 Hz-4 KHz - edge, clarity, harshness, defines timbre
4500 Hz - exteremly tiring to the ears, add a slight notch here
5-7 KHz - de-essing is done here
4-9 KHz - brightness, presence, definition, sibilance, high frequency distortion
6-15 KHz - air and presence
9-15 KHz - adding will give sparkle, shimmer, bring out details - cutting will smooth out harshness and darken the mix
Kicks:
60Hz with a Q of 1.4 -- Add fullness to kicks.
5Khz with a Q of 2.8 -- Adds attack to Kicks
bottom (60 - 80 Hz),
slap (4 kHz)
EQ>Cut below 80Hz to remove rumble
Boost between 80 -125 Hz for bass
Boost between 3 - 5kHz to get the slap
PROCESSING> Compression 4:1/6:1 slow attack med release.
Reverb: Tight room reverb (0.1-0.2ms)
General:
Apply a little cut at 300Hz and some boost between 40Hz and 80Hz.
Control The Attack:
Apply boost or cut around 4KHz to 6KHz.
Treat Muddiness:
Apply cut somewhere in the 100Hz to 500Hz range.
kick>> bottom depth at 60 - 80 Hz, slap attack at 2.5Hz
Snares:
100Hz with a Q of 1.0 -- Add fullness to snare
200Hz - 250Hz with a Q of 1.4 -- Adds wood to snares
3Khz with a Q of 1.4 -- Adds atack to snare.
7Khz with a Q of 2.8 -- Adds Sharpness to snares and percussion
fatness at 120-240Hz
boing at 400Hz
crispness at 5kHz
snap at 10kHz
fatness (240 Hz), crispness (5 kHz)
EQ> Boost above 2kHz for that crisp edge
Cut at 1kHz to get rid of the sharp peak
Boost at 125Hz for a full snare sound
Cut at 80Hz to remove rumble
PROCESSING> Compression 4:1 slow attack med release.
Reverb: Tight room reverb (0.1-0.2ms)
snare>> fatness at 240HZ, crispness at 5 KHz
Vocals
General:
Roll off below 60Hz using a High Pass Filter. This range is unlikely to contain anything useful, so you may as well reduce the noise the track contributes to the mix.
Treat Harsh Vocals:
To soften vocals apply cut in a narrow bandwidth somewhere in the 2.5KHz to 4KHz range.
Get An Open Sound:
Apply a gentle boost above 6KHz using a shelving filter.
Get Brightness, Not Harshness:
Apply a gentle boost using a wide-band Bandpass Filter above 6KHz. Use the Sweep control to sweep the frequencies to get it right.
Get Smoothness:
Apply some cut in a narrow band in the 1KHz to 2KHz range.
Bring Out The Bass:
Apply some boost in a reasonably narrow band somewhere in the 200Hz to 600Hz range.
Radio Vocal Effect:
Apply some cut at the High Frequencies, lots of boost about 1.5KHz and lots of cut below 700Hz.
Telephone Effect:
Apply lots of compression pre EQ, and a little analogue distortion by turning up the input gain. Apply some cut at the High Frequencies, lots of boost about 1.5KHz and lots of cut below 700Hz.
vocals>> fullness at 120 Hz, boominess at 200 - 240 Hz, presence at 5 kHz, sibilance at 7.5 - 10 kHz
Hats:
10Khz with a Q of 1.0 -- Adds brightness to hats and cymbals
Hi Hat & Cymbals: sizzle (7.5 - 10 kHz), clank (200 Hz)
EQ> Boost above 5kHz for sharp sparkle
Cut at 1kHz to remove jangling
PROCESSING> Compression use high ratio for high energy feel
Reverb: Looser than Bass n Snare allow the hats and especially the Rides to ring a little
Get Definition:
Roll off everything below 600Hz using a High Pass Filter.
Get Sizzle:
Apply boost at 10KHz using a Band Pass Filter. Adjust the bandwidth to get the sound right.
Treat Clangy Hats:
Apply some cut between 1KHz and 4KHz.
hi hats/cymbals>> clank or gong sound at 200 Hz, shimmer at 7.5 kHz - 12 kHz
Guitar:
Treat Unclear Vocals:
Apply some cut to the guitar between 1KHz and 5KHz to bring the vocals to the front of the mix.
General:
Apply a little boost between 100Hz and 250Hz and again between 10KHz and 12KHz.
Acoustic Guitar
Add Sparkle:Try some gentle boost at 10KHz using a Band Pass Filter with a medium bandwidth.
General:
Try applying some mid-range cut to the rhythm section to make vocals and other instruments more clearly heard.
Other:
Voice: presence (5 kHz), sibilance (7.5 - 10 kHz), boominess (200 - 240 kHz), fullness (120 Hz)
Electric Guitar: fullness (240 Hz), bite (2.5 kHz), air / sizzle (8 kHz)
Bass Guitar: bottom (60 - 80 Hz), attack (700 - 1000 Hz), string noise (2.5 kHz)
Toms: attack (5 kHz), fullness (120 - 240 Hz)
Acoustic Guitar: harshness / bite (2 kHz), boominess (120 - 200 Hz), cut (7 - 10 kHz)
Bass - Compressed, EQ'd with a full bottom end and some mids
rack toms>> fullness at 240 Hz, attack at 5 kHz
floor toms>> fullness at 80 - 120 Hz, attack at 5 kHz
horns>> fullness at 120 - 240 Hz, shrill at 5 - 7.5 kHz
strings>> fullness at 240 Hz, scratchiness at 7.5 - 10 kHz
conga/bongo>> resonance at 200 - 240 Hz, slap at 5 kHz
General Frequencies:
EQ Reference: Frequencies
50Hz
Boost: To thicken up bass drums and sub-bass parts.
Cut: Below this frequency on all vocal tracks. This should reduce the effect of any microphone 'pops'.
70-100Hz
Boost: For bass lines and bass drums.
Cut: For vocals.
General: Be wary of boosting the bass of too many tracks. Low frequency sounds are particularly vulnerable to phase cancellation between sounds of similar frequency. This can result in a net 'cut of the bass frequencies.
200-400Hz
Boost: To add warmth to vocals or to thicken a guitar sound.
Cut: To bring more clarity to vocals or to thin cymbals and higher frequency percussion.
Boost or Cut: to control the 'woody' sound of a snare.
400-800Hz
Boost: To add warmth to toms.
Boost or Cut: To control bass clarity, or to thicken or thin guitar sounds.
General: In can be worthwhile applying cut to some of the instruments in the mix to bring more clarity to the bass within the overall mix.
800Hz-1KHz
Boost: To thicken vocal tracks. At 1 KHz apply boost to add a knock to a bass drum.
1-3KHz
Boost: To make a piano more aggressive. Applying boost between 1KHz and 5KHz will also make guitars and basslines more cutting.
Cut: Apply cut between 2 KHz and 3KHz to smooth a harsh sounding vocal part.
General: This frequency range is often used to make instruments stand out in a mix.
3-6KHz
Boost: For a more 'plucked' sounding bass part. Apply boost at around 6KHz to add some definition to vocal parts and distorted guitars.
Cut: Apply cut at about 3KHz to remove the hard edge of piercing vocals. Apply cut between 5KHZ and 6KHz to dull down some parts in a mix.
6-10KHz
Boost: To sweeten vocals. The higher the frequency you boost the more 'airy/breathy' the result will be. Also boost to add definition to the sound of acoustic guitars or to add edge to synth sounds or strings or to enhance the sound of a variety of percussion sounds. For example boost this range to:
Bring out cymbals.
Add ring to a snare.
Add edge to a bass drum.
10-16KHz
Boost: To make vocals more 'airy' or for crisp cymbals and percussion. Also boost this frequency to add sparkle to pads, but only if the frequency is present in the original sound, otherwise you will just be adding hiss to the recording.
and these call for boosts in the kick and the bass.
all in all i was thinking last night that im trying to hard to get the over all sound to be that of a finished product.
i use a Mclass mastering suite set on default cuz it makes it sound better in headphones. but what i think im failing to do , and please tell me ive im wrong that AS LONG AS THE SOUNDS FIT TOGETHER AND ARE MIXED WELL IM GOOD , CUZ MAIKNG THE OVERALL SOUND OF A SONG GOOD IS DONE IN MASTERING.
wow this was a lot of posts, i got lots to think about and consider so thanks to everyone for the input, much appretiated
Low shelf everything. Cut, never boost.
you meen click the 30Hz lo cut botton? i always do that on everything. so i guess i still need to use a Eq on everything right. also i was think what if i put to EQs on the kicks and basses and clicked both lo cut bottons could that help even more , cuz i dont know how much it actually cuts it cuz i doesnt show that low, plus i figured it cant really hurt could it?
Bass and Kick love to share the same closet. They're both fat. If you low shelf each a bit, and take out some of their energy, they can both fit in the closet. But, if you add a subbass... that's like letting Tom Cruise into the closet. And you'll have to keep being creative with EQing.
My best results are this:
Low shelf bassline line at around 100-150Hz, by -3 to 6dB?
Low shelf kick at around 50-60Hz by -3 to -6dB
Since I don't want to sap the bass out of both, I side-chain compress the bassline from the kick.
And no not in a cheesy way, no Benassi... in a tasteful way, like 3db of gain reduction.
Works like a champ. Same trick can be used on other stuff, like vocals, and really rich and bright synths. Side-chain compress your bright full synth to the vocals.
So yea. EQ first, cut, and rarely boost, then compress.
WOT WOT.
Oh yea. High pass filters? (ie the 30hz cut.) Is A: not normally necissary, and B: doesn't really do a whole lot but add phase distortion along the rest of the octaves of 30Hz. (so 60Hz, 120Hz, 240Hz) Any time you EQ there's phase distortion. Not a lot, but it will add up if you're high passing stuff like crazy, like ALWAYS clicking on that 30Hz cut button.
So yea. High pass filters are to be avoided, because they don't sound natural... unless that's the effect you want... of course.
i was told on here that clicking the 30Hz cut is good cuz it gets rid of sounds you can hear , and ultimatlly makes that sound louder. so what you are saying is dont use the 30Hz cut ? or do you meen dont use it on everything?
also i dont even know what high pass and low shelf meens 
from what you just posted i understand that i high pass filter is the 30Hz button?
"Low shelf bassline line at around 100-150Hz, by -3 to 6dB?
Low shelf kick at around 50-60Hz by -3 to -6dB"
this im not to clear about
http://www.stage-directions.com/bac.../oct02/eq.shtml
And from the website:
| quote: |
| So far we've classified equalizers according to the frequency bands they control. They also can be classified by the shape of their frequency response. A peaking equalizer (Figure 3-A) creates a response in the shape of a hill or peak when set for a boost. With a shelving equalizer, the shape of the frequency response resembles a shelf, as in Figure 3-B. A filter causes a rolloff at the frequency extremes. It sharply rejects (attenuates) frequencies above or below a certain frequency. Figure 3-C shows three types of filters: lowpass, highpass and bandpass. For example, a 100 Hz highpass filter (low-cut filter) attenuates frequencies below 100 Hz. Its response is down 3 dB at 100 Hz and more below that. This removes low-pitched noises, such as room rumble, mic handling noise and mic breath pops. A filter is named according to the steepness of its rolloff: 6 dB per octave (first-order), 12 dB/octave (second-order), 18 dB/octave (3rd order) and so on. |
awsome that helped alot , so shelving can either be boosting or cutting (e.i. high or low shelving), but shelving just reffers to the "shape of the frequency response"
thank you
One of my tips. Try and listen to what you're making and try to pinpoint the problem areas or areas that need attention. Try and stay away from the numbers and stats and curves, feel!
My goodness, you have so many concepts running around in this thread. I'll try to just stick to the questions asked of me.
Some instruments may need no eq. For me personally, almost every instrument goes through an eq at some point, either acting directly on the instrument itself, or working on a specific subgroup (like a percussion subgroup, easier to put a highpass filter on the whole group than on each individual element. Does the same job and uses less CPU)
In terms of cutting away frequencies, that can be done to the kick, the bass, the lead instruments, any sound in the mix. It really depends on the sounds and what you're trying to do. If there's too much of a particular frequency in a particular instrument, you can use eq to bring that frequency down a bit.
But I can't tell you what to cut and boost. There are many fantastic engineers producing many fantastic tracks, and these engineers don't all use eq in exactly the same way. And a particular engineer may not use eq the same way in each song.
Work out what you want to do, and learn what the tools you have at your disposal will enable you to do. Listen very closely to your favourite music, in whatever dimension you're interested in - if you're currently working out your reverb technique, listen only to the reverb applied to each instrument. If you're currently working only on your kicks and basses, don't pay any attention to the hgih instruments. If you're working on eq, listen to each instrument - does the bass sound seem to have any high frequencies in there? how high does the bass go? Do the lead instruments have bass frequencies? How bassy do the leads get? How rich is the hihat in mid frequencies?
Spend time in the studio, experiment. We've all tried a thousand wrong approaches and made horrible music. But that's great - once you learn every wrong approach, the only ones left are the good ones!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJFreaq Oh yea. High pass filters? (ie the 30hz cut.) Is A: not normally necissary, and B: doesn't really do a whole lot but add phase distortion along the rest of the octaves of 30Hz. (so 60Hz, 120Hz, 240Hz) Any time you EQ there's phase distortion. Not a lot, but it will add up if you're high passing stuff like crazy, like ALWAYS clicking on that 30Hz cut button. So yea. High pass filters are to be avoided, because they don't sound natural... unless that's the effect you want... of course. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Derivative Only if you use a non linear phase EQ. So basically any EQ that doesn't say 'Linear Phase' or claims to model the sound of 'analogue EQs' |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Storyteller Try and stay away from the numbers and stats and curves, feel! |
thanks guys but i think im getting mixed messages or im just confused.
DJFreaq
"Oh yea. High pass filters? (ie the 30hz cut.) Is A: not normally necissary, and B: doesn't really do a whole lot but add phase distortion along the rest of the octaves of 30Hz. (so 60Hz, 120Hz, 240Hz) Any time you EQ there's phase distortion. Not a lot, but it will add up if you're high passing stuff like crazy, like ALWAYS clicking on that 30Hz cut button.
So yea. High pass filters are to be avoided, because they don't sound natural... unless that's the effect you want... of course."
after reading this i understand not to use the 30Hz cut on every channel , but i still like using it on my bass and kicks
derail
"Some instruments may need no eq. For me personally, almost every instrument goes through an eq at some point, either acting directly on the instrument itself, or working on a specific subgroup (like a percussion subgroup, easier to put a highpass filter on the whole group than on each individual element. Does the same job and uses less CPU)"
but then here , and correct me if im wrong derail is saying that you can use this on a grab of percussion? e.i. hihats shakers and rides. but wounldn't that cause phase distortion that DJfreaq was talking about. because theory it make sense that not every sound should be high passed at the same freq , let alone a group of them.
i put every percussion sound on its own channel and through its on EQ , so i can have more control over every sound.
quote:
Originally posted by DJFreaq
Oh yea. High pass filters? (ie the 30hz cut.) Is A: not normally necissary, and B: doesn't really do a whole lot but add phase distortion along the rest of the octaves of 30Hz. (so 60Hz, 120Hz, 240Hz) Any time you EQ there's phase distortion. Not a lot, but it will add up if you're high passing stuff like crazy, like ALWAYS clicking on that 30Hz cut button.
So yea. High pass filters are to be avoided, because they don't sound natural... unless that's the effect you want... of course.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Derivative Only if you use a non linear phase EQ. So basically any EQ that doesn't say 'Linear Phase' or claims to model the sound of 'analogue EQs' |
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