BAGHDAD - The number of U.S. troops killed in November remained at a low not seen since March 2006 on Thursday, a respite from years of bloodshed that forced some 2 million Iraqis to flee and prompted the buildup of nearly 30,000 more American forces.
The U.S. military said that an American soldier had been killed by small-arms fire on Wednesday in Baghdad, bringing the number of troops killed in Iraq to 35 for the month so far. In May, as the influx of troops gained momentum, 126 Americans died.
During that six-month period, streets that had been closed during the sectarian fighting have reopened with strict limits: Checkpoints, roadblocks, concrete blast walls, and American and Iraqi patrols are still the norm in many parts of the capital.
But some of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who fled their homeland for neighboring Syria and Jordan and beyond are returning � with money, transport and protection from their government. The program also seeks to win favor from neighboring countries such as Syria and Jordan that are struggling with an estimated 2.2 million Iraqi refugees.
Late Wednesday, about 20 buses carrying hundreds of Iraqi refugees rolled into a Baghdad depot � the first from the Iraqi-funded effort to speed the return of families. National Security Minister Sherwan al-Waili, who met the convoy, said each returning family would receive $750 to get started rebuilding their lives.
"The returning home of displaced families is considered as a great victory for law enforcement and national reconciliation," military spokesman Brig. Gen. Qassim al-Moussawi said. "We didn't ask any family about his sect or ethnicity. Such things were created by terrorism and will disappear along with terrorism."
Officials gave varying figures for the number of people who returned in the convoy. Iraqi diplomats in Syria said 800 would leave while al-Moussawi put the figure at more than 400.
The returning families were hustled into cars to take them home. Those who lived outside Baghdad were taken to a government-owned hotel to spend the night.
"We heard that the security situation has improved, so we have returned home. The government has provided us with a force guarding us from the Iraqi borders to Baghdad," Sami Abu Muhanad, one of those returning, told AP Television News on Thursday.
Syria has tightened visa rules for Iraqis in hopes of forcing people to return home and blocking new refugees.
Earlier this month, the Iraqi embassy in Damascus set up 11 registration centers for Iraqis to apply for the trip home. In Jordan, Iraqi ambassador Saad al-Hayyani told The Associated Press that Iraq will give Jordan $8 million to help ease the refugee burden.
Officials in Iraq and Syria say more than 46,000 refugees returned in October and the flow has continued this month. The U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees could not confirm the figures, but said more Iraqis were leaving Syria than arriving � with a daily average of 1,500 departures compared with 500 arrivals.
Sybella Wikes, press officer for the UNHCR in Syria, said the agency doesn't "think it's time" yet for a massive refugee return.
"We certainly can't define the situation as being safe in any area in Iraq," she said.
The U.N.'s misgivings continue to be borne out in Iraq's daily violence. On Thursday, police said they pulled six bodies from the Tigris River about 25 miles south of Baghdad. The bodies were handcuffed and had signs of torture and five � including a young child � had been beheaded. In Baghdad, a bomb on a minibus killed one person, police said.
Still, many Iraqis are willing to risk it � either out of homesickness, lack of money or a genuine hope that conditions are improving.
Abdul-Khaliq Mohammed, a 49-year-old father of six, left his predominantly Sunni neighborhood in western Baghdad for Syria more than a year ago to escape violence. He returned when relatives said life was improving.
"I still have doubts about the current calm in Baghdad, but no matter what happens, even if the security situation gets bad again, I have no intention of going back to Syria, where life was very difficult and expensive to us," he said as he ate breakfast after returning to his house.
The number of Iraqi civilians killed has declined drastically in the past six months as tens of thousands of Iraqis nationwide, mostly Sunnis, have broken with the insurgents and joined U.S.-backed self-defense groups.
In November to date, at least 648 Iraqi civilians have been killed or found dead, according to figures compiled by The Associated Press. This compares with 2,155 in May.
Originally posted by LatinLover
Im glad that we are continuing making progress
Yeah, 2 millions of refugees, thousands of dead civilians, thousands of soldiers killed. A country devastated for decades, with aftermath for the area that are extremly dangerous for the peace process while there are countries with the nuclear weapons involved.
Yeah talk about progress...
Posted by Lebezniatnikov on Nov-29-2007 13:46:
quote:
Originally posted by d-miurge
Yeah, 2 millions of refugees, thousands of dead civilians, thousands of soldiers killed. A country devastated for decades, with aftermath for the area that are extremly dangerous for the peace process while there are countries with the nuclear weapons involved.
Yeah talk about progress...
I think you're missing Latin's point. The easiest way to achieve progress is to screw everything up so badly that you're starting with a really low base-line. Then any little future improvement is "progress" over the current situation!
Posted by erdega on Nov-29-2007 14:34:
quote:
Originally posted by LatinLover
Im glad that we are continuing making progress
I am glad the "world's only superpower" is taking a beating from an invisible enemy only they can appreciate, all in defense of war propaganda and their imperialist objectives
[img]http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m253/nahrawan/741918008_ec01834025_o.jpg[/img]
Posted by XaNaX on Nov-29-2007 14:43:
Nice to see that you still don't know how to follow the rules about posting photos of injured soldiers
Posted by Lebezniatnikov on Nov-29-2007 14:43:
Not that I dictate what is appropriate or not, but posting pictures of IED's and saying you are glad Americans "are taking a beating" is a bit over the line in my opinion.
Posted by MisterOpus1 on Nov-29-2007 15:00:
quote:
Originally posted by LatinLover
Im glad that we are continuing making progress
Ahh yes, that good ol' "progress" chant.
With 2007 still having a month left, it will still be regarded as the "deadliest year of the war for United States troops":
And finally, let's also not forget (once again) that the whole point of the SURGE! was to clear the way for the political process to move forward. But unfortunately, things are "going nowhere" in "political terms":
Oh, almost forgot, an interesting piece on NBC Nightly News the other night depicting a �wave of violence that�s gone largely unreported lately against women in Iraq.� They are increasingly unable to walk around without a hijab, wear cosmetics, or work.:
Not to worry, though - there's plenty of good jobs for those Iraqi women fleeing into Syria:
Yep. Progress.
Posted by erdega on Nov-29-2007 15:04:
quote:
Originally posted by XaNaX
Nice to see that you still don't know how to follow the rules about posting photos of injured soldiers
They are soldiers who have never fought a real army and instead of being hunters as they are used to are now hunted as they consider themselves invincible , I've seen what they have done, killing everyone from defenseless chilldren to journalists to grannies in wanton orgies of violence and I consider entire American military as imperial teroristic in nature notwithstanding that they push the policies of the criminal regime in Washington and those invested in them
This is internet, freedom and democracy and if you can't live with both , it's your problem , you can't see this stuff in your controlled mainstream media , besides these photos are very tame to what's out there so you have no basis to talk about it
Posted by MisterOpus1 on Nov-29-2007 15:05:
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Not that I dictate what is appropriate or not, but posting pictures of IED's and saying you are glad Americans "are taking a beating" is a bit over the line in my opinion.
Agreed. Erdega, I think you need to edit your post a little bit. I understand your message and agree with your general sentiments, but the mods have explicitly stated to avoid such pictures and language depicting the deaths of anyone. I'd rather see you edit it a little before Lira/Neo intervenes - from what I recollect they will suspend or ban people for this.
Posted by MisterOpus1 on Nov-29-2007 15:09:
quote:
Originally posted by erdega
This is internet, freedom and democracy and if you can't live with both , it's your problem , you can't see this stuff in your controlled mainstream media , besides these photos are very tame to what's out there so you have no basis to talk about it
Erdega:
quote:
5. TA is not exactly a "democracy": I'll try to be as democratic as possible here, but it doesn't mean you can do/say all you want. If you feel you're being treated unfairly, talk to a mod. We will help you as much as we can. But, if you think all mods are treating you unfairly, tough luck.
Again from what I recollect, that rule was inserted largely because of the death pictures controversy in the past. I'm only giving you a heads up on the matter. You've contributed a great deal to the forums lately, and although I don't agree with everything you say I enjoy reading your posts. So please consider editing before a mod jumps in.
Posted by Lebezniatnikov on Nov-29-2007 15:16:
quote:
Originally posted by erdega
They are soldiers who have never fought a real army and instead of being hunters as they are used to are now hunted as they consider themselves invincible , I've seen what they have done, killing everyone from defenseless chilldren to journalists to grannies in wanton orgies of violence and I consider entire American military as imperial teroristic in nature notwithstanding that they push the policies of the criminal regime in Washington and those invested in them
Fact remains, you don't see anyone here saying that all Serbs deserve to get firebombed for what the Vojska Republike Srpske did in Srebrenica.
quote:
besides these photos are very tame to what's out there so you have no basis to talk about it
Oh I feel real fucking better.
Posted by erdega on Nov-29-2007 15:18:
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Not that I dictate what is appropriate or not, but posting pictures of IED's and saying you are glad Americans "are taking a beating" is a bit over the line in my opinion.
I think it's in line and even understated with those who push the imperial policies where ends justify means. I don't know if you ever condemned American bombing of tv station in belgrade killing 16 journalists and countless other terrorist acts commited on the orders of Washington or if you condemned war on Iraq initiated on false premises for someone else's profit . Anyway this is a so called "sole superpower" as they like to call themselves but when they are put on defensive they are not so tough as they like to believe.
Besides you are the one defending low lives like Joe Biden so why should I take you seriously even as much
Posted by Groundhog Boy on Nov-29-2007 15:22:
quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Agreed. Erdega, I think you need to edit your post a little bit. I understand your message and agree with your general sentiments, but the mods have explicitly stated to avoid such pictures and language depicting the deaths of anyone. I'd rather see you edit it a little before Lira/Neo intervenes - from what I recollect they will suspend or ban people for this.
Can you imagine the outrage if we started posting snuff photos and videos of Iraqis dying? I love how it's acceptable to post pics of the deaths from the side that's killing more enemies. It's not like killing everyone is going to win us the war, because we all know that the death counts aren't the decider in a fight against an ideology.
quote:
Originally posted by erdega
I've seen what they have done, killing everyone from defenseless children to journalists to grannies in wanton orgies of violence and I consider entire American military as imperial teroristic in nature notwithstanding that they push the policies of the criminal regime in Washington and those invested in them
And the other side does the same, more frequently, often to their own countrymen, yet you cheer for them?
Posted by erdega on Nov-29-2007 15:30:
quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
Agreed. Erdega, I think you need to edit your post a little bit. I understand your message and agree with your general sentiments, but the mods have explicitly stated to avoid such pictures and language depicting the deaths of anyone. I'd rather see you edit it a little before Lira/Neo intervenes - from what I recollect they will suspend or ban people for this.
Should I edit it?
I mean these are injured soldiers in war battles , it's not like I post murdered corpses. Besides there is nothing like this in any western media where war is idolized , simplified which ultimatelly leads to even deadlier consequences on the ground
Posted by Lebezniatnikov on Nov-29-2007 15:32:
quote:
Besides you are the one defending low lives like Joe Biden so why should I take you seriously even as much
What the hell does that have to do with anything? You're the king of tangential ad hominem non sequitars. The fact that I support Joe Biden's education and Iraq policies now makes me an American imperialist? So does the fact that you hate America make you a terrorist? In your black-and-white either-with-me-or-against-me world of Zionist conspiracy, you're always right and everyone else is evil. That's like third grade logic. Grow up.
quote:
Originally posted by erdega
I think it's in line and even understated with those who push the imperial policies where ends justify means.
So then my above post would be in line too? Or would you like to have your cake and eat it too?
quote:
I don't know if you ever condemned American bombing of tv station in belgrade killing 16 journalists and countless other terrorist acts commited on the orders of Washington or if you condemned war on Iraq initiated on false premises for someone else's profit .
I did and I do. But I don't pray for Americans to die as a result. Or gloat over the pictures of them doing so.
quote:
Anyway this is a so called "sole superpower" as they like to call themselves but when they are put on defensive they are not so tough as they like to believe.
And? Are you implying that it IS tough to "stand up" to the US by burying bombs by the side of roads? That's so hypocritical. If the US did it you would cry bloody murder. But now it is "retribution". I understand completely why you dislike American foreign policy. I do too right now. But your anti-American venom is hypocritical and stupid.
Posted by erdega on Nov-29-2007 15:53:
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Not that I dictate what is appropriate or not, but posting pictures of IED's and saying you are glad Americans "are taking a beating" is a bit over the line in my opinion.
Sure Mr. Biden fan, like you know what's appropriate . But any imperialist supporter needs to look at some of those pictures and I say again these are tame stuff and none of guys except the one on strecher is dead.
Posted by Lebezniatnikov on Nov-29-2007 16:01:
quote:
Originally posted by erdega
Biden
Still irrelevant.
quote:
But any imperialist supporter needs to look at some of those pictures
Yes, because forcing people who don't support the goddamn war in Iraq in the first place to see pictures of their dead countrymen really does make whatever anti-imperialism point you're trying to make quite effectively. Not.
quote:
and I say again these are tame stuff and none of guys except the one on strecher is dead.
That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Go take your snuff fetish elsewhere please. Hopefully to vacation in suspension-land.
Posted by erdega on Nov-29-2007 16:09:
quote:
Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
Can you imagine the outrage if we started posting snuff photos and videos of Iraqis dying? I love how it's acceptable to post pics of the deaths from the side that's killing more enemies. It's not like killing everyone is going to win us the war, because we all know that the death counts aren't the decider in a fight against an ideology.
America is the only aggressor at the behest of its elite . 99% of American victims in Serbia and Iraq were defenselss victims
quote:
Originally posted by Groundhog Boy
And the other side does the same, more frequently, often to their own countrymen, yet you cheer for them?
This only started after American occupation but likely will not end immediatelly with their withdrawal
Posted by Lebezniatnikov on Nov-29-2007 16:20:
quote:
Originally posted by erdega
America is the only aggressor at the behest of its elite . 99% of American victims in Serbia and Iraq were defenselss victims
As opposed to the massacres of Bosniaks at Srebrenica or Kurds in the Al-Anfal campaign?
Not that I'm about to post any jpeg's of more dead, I'm curious about if there is a line here.
What about pictures of concentration camps / the halocaust or other genocides? I've seen some realy crazy ones on documentaries on PUBLIC broadcasting (US and Canadian stations) in addition to life sized photo's at the London War Mueseam.
Or how about pictures of the trenches in WWI? There are many of bloody mud covered soilders floating around.
Or Vietnam? The pictures that came back from there were instrumental in energizing the anti-war movment at the time. If we continue to abide by censored media standards while cencoring ourselves isn't it likely going to extend the war and the suffering that goes a long with it?
In that respect there's a currious posibility that the more pictures of the wounded are supressed the more pictures there will be to surpress.
Posted by Lebezniatnikov on Nov-29-2007 17:13:
quote:
Originally posted by atbell
Not that I'm about to post any jpeg's of more dead, I'm curious about if there is a line here.
What about pictures of concentration camps / the halocaust or other genocides?
My point is that nobody posts pictures of The Holocaust with the caption "gee I'm glad those Jews got what they deserved."
Posted by LatinLover on Nov-29-2007 20:40:
Incredible! Anti-Americanism in this board is real.
It seems that MisterOpus mission to promote anti-americanism and negative propaganda against our troops is working.
Posted by erdega on Nov-29-2007 21:25:
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
What the hell does that have to do with anything? You're the king of tangential ad hominem non sequitars. The fact that I support Joe Biden's education and Iraq policies now makes me an American imperialist?
It has something to do with your credibility because you may not be wary of war and gore if it satisfies your proclinations and of course supporting Biden among others makes you an imperialist. He has voted for war and is a self proclaimef zionist , he believes in "victory" after almost 5 years of bloodshed and his "plan for iraq" is a direct plagiarism from bosnia dayton agreement which involves american overseeing of de facto iraqi segregation and I bet you knew that, right ?
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
So does the fact that you hate America make you a terrorist? In your black-and-white either-with-me-or-against-me world of Zionist conspiracy, you're always right and everyone else is evil. That's like third grade logic. Grow up.
A fact that I hate America makes me a terrorist, you say ?
I know you are not joking so I gather that my anti zionist imperialist line pushed you to that conclusion as well as your support for Biden who pushes those 2 lines. For your black and white analogy , your definition of terrorism is very politicised and used only to intimidate but when I talk of terrorism I speak of politically inspired blind violence
Speaking of which, I am as american as non american can be, my sister lives in the states , I support Ron Paul way before he became what he is today, I watch nba and so much more but it's the other people who are isolated, the war mongers , they refuse to accept any responsability and are living in fantasy land where they are right and everyone else is wrong, even that fat neocon Perle was talking the other day how everyone else is guilty but him. Also when you talk about "zionist conspiracies", how come people like this can never be objective with zionists and/or jews and treat them like everyone else good and bad ? I think Israel and jews is too romanticised of a subject from holocaust to Israel to wars where people in america and especially politicians are too emotionally involved to see it objectively and that's why they overreact in their policies
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
I did and I do. But I don't pray for Americans to die as a result. Or gloat over the pictures of them doing so.
Given the fact that American army is purely offensive force and its mission is made of lies , why do you or anybody would support it ?
I am showing reality , reality obscured to average american citizen. Maybe you have an idealistic view of the war and the world.
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
And? Are you implying that it IS tough to "stand up" to the US by burying bombs by the side of roads? That's so hypocritical. If the US did it you would cry bloody murder. But now it is "retribution". I understand completely why you dislike American foreign policy. I do too right now. But your anti-American venom is hypocritical and stupid.
Hey man I could go on about Americans who started these wars bombing defenselss targets from 30000 feet or 500 km, planting IED's is way more courageous and skillful than that. You talk about Serbia but fail to mention 78 days of american terror bombing never daring to fight serbian army on the ground, that is cowardice that caught up to americans and their allies in Iraq once they got to defend themselves
And I don't know how well you know me to be making those statements. I fundamentally hate current Washington regime whom I consider criminal and both parties who are in it together , I hate american mainstream media from fox to new york times . My problem is with let's say it American imperialism and you seem to think there is not enough of it. I support Ron Paul even though I am not american and you support Biden who still believes in "victory" , for what and for whom I don't know, to be honest I do know what he means very well . So I'd say by and large we are diametrically opposed which doesn't mean we can't agree on some things , let's just not get personal on these important issues
Posted by erdega on Nov-29-2007 21:33:
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
My point is that nobody posts pictures of The Holocaust with the caption "gee I'm glad those Jews got what they deserved."
There is no comparison between offensive soldiers of a global superpower and defenselss concentration camp victims. Don't throw useless and tasteless comparisons
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