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-- my friend and yours, carpal tunnel syndrome
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my friend and yours, carpal tunnel syndrome

(posted this on another board i frequently post as well, thought id post it here for my tranceaddict friends also...)

eh just thought id share my predicament so hopefully itll help you guys to re-evaluate your habits.

to set this up, im on my computer basically all day unless im in class. if im at work, im on a computer. if im at home, im on my computer. if im eating dinner in my apt, im still on my computer. been using them for prolly 15 years or so, type super fast, i dunno. me and my computer have always been attached at the hip.

so two nights ago as i am starting to drift in and out of alpha state, going to bed, there is this intense shooting pain in my hands.. localized on the inside top of both hands (so, around the thumb/index finger area on the top, down to my wrist). i didnt think anything of it, maybe a muscle spasm i thought. it really did hurt tho. fell asleep.

next morning (a day ago) i didnt feel it. went to class, got to work, started typing... and the pain came back again.. sporatic but consistent.. very, very painful. i began to think maybe something was wrong. called my dr., made an appt for the next day (today)... went home.

as soon as i got home it got exponentially worse. the pain started to extend down to my wrists and lower arms... resonated up and down. let me reiterate that this is REALLY intense pain. then the numbness came, mostly in my right arm.. i couldnt feel my hand or arm all the way up to my elbow a lot. from before i went to bed last night, until about 6-7pm today (once i put the brace on), i could not feel my right arm/hand.

went to school today, the pain was happening all day now, not just when i was at the computer. doctor took down my symptoms, confirmed that i indeed have carpal tunnel syndrome in my right hand/wrist, and its in my left hand/wrist, tho not as prominent (i can still feel things when the nerves are jarred on that hand, but not much.)

im only 21.

this could happen to you, folks. even at this age, if you are around computers a lot, it can happen.. and it sucks ass when it does. the only way to really "fix" it is with surgery (which sometimes doesnt help or you have to get it several times to be effective). you can try to make it regress but it will often come and go. right now i am wearing wrist braces that i have to sleep in.

im not really surprised i got it, because of my habits.. but there were some things i could have done to help prevent it, that i didnt, cuz of course i didnt even imagine id get it (i thought it was only something you get when you are old). those things include, using one of those wrist pads for your keyboard (i never have), making sure you have the right posture for typing (supposedly, someone correct me if im wrong, you ideally shoudl type at a 45 degree angle below you.. not on a surface above where your wrists are kinda up or resting on a desk top.). i didnt do any of these things and now it kinda sucks.. considering my computer is my life, its my major, my hobby, my career now and career in the future, and im stuck with this shit.

so i dunno. just thought id post this to maybe draw attention to it a little.. especially since i know lots of you board kids are prolly just as nerdy as i. dont think you are immune because you are lucky and it hasnt happened, or because you are too young to get it. i had no idea until TWO days ago, and now i wish i had done some simple shit to help ensure that maybe i wouldnt have gotten this.

now im off to bed with these wrist braces and lots of wonderful pain.

bump cuz this is kind of important and i dont want it on page 2 with zero responses >_<

Physical damage from using computers really suck. Personally I had to encounter cramps and pain in my right arm before realizing something had to be done. I build a new computer rack as none of the furniture shops - even those who boast they specialize in ergonomical furniture - had what I needed. The rules are:

* Minimum 50 cm from you to the screen and at a slightly lower position so your tears can run down your eyeball and prevent it from drying in (I'm currently using fake tears as my eyes have taken strain from violating this rule for too long).
* Lots of space beneath the table, so you can sit close to it and still have your legs stretched out.
* The plate in the computer table should stretch at least 1 m into the room to allow for the monitor and a resting place for your underarms while typing/using the mouse.
* Try to get used to using the mouse with both your left and right hand. That way you can switch on a regular basis and avoid putting to much strain on one of them.
* Get a mouse with buttons that allow your fingers to rest on them without clicking. If you constantly hover your fingers over the buttons, you're straining your arm.

Now, I have this really ugly, homebuild, piece of furniture filling a good deal of my room, but I think it's a good investement for me.

wow, ive never heard of the monitor tilting down for tear purposes before... i guess most of us really take this stuff for granted.

its interesting also (just on the subject of CTS) that a lot of peopel think computer is the only thing that causes this. when i posted this on another board, someone responded saying "oh, well i do other stuff to relieve the strain of typing, such as lots of rock climbing, etc etc"... she wasnt aware of the fact that rock climbing is notorious for causing CTS and/or tendonitis. yet one more myth that should be dispelled..

It helps if u find time to work out your wrists too

1) Underhand barbell curls.. sit, rest forearm on your leg/knee, hold weight out and curl inwards
2) Same as #1, but not underhand (this one hurts, lol)
3) Those wrist grip things that you squeeze

eep.

i am 23, i have been a computer programmer for 4 years.
so.. yeah, i should be picking up CTS any day now.
but i don't want to! what should i do, i am not going to stop using a computer any time soon.

i use an ergnomic mousepad with a gel wrist rest thing..
it seems like it does more harm than good, because my wrist is resting on it all day. using it with both hands? yeah right! have you actually tried that?

my keyboard is slanted upwards, i rest my elbows on the desk, and the heel of my palms on the desktop just under the space bar.

is that ok? any other way is not comfortable at all. should i be holding my arms up in the air or something?

thanks for bringing this to our attention sothis.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper It helps if u find time to work out your wrists too

i can assure you mine get plenty of practice



ahem



anyway, i notice ifi am on the comp for ages with the bottm on my mouse holding wrist on the mat for a while my hand goes cold thru lack of blood suplly. plus i sit right wierd on my comp chair and have fucked my knee joint up a bit, but i havnt had any tunnels syndrome or anything yet, but it sounds nasty

I thought carpal tunnel syndrome was that disease when worms live under your skin
We call it RSI, repetitive strain injury.....

I'm sorry to hear this Sothis! You're so young..it must be terrible!

I have no experience with it....all I can say is good luck and hope it will work out fine... :s

quote:

my keyboard is slanted upwards, i rest my elbows on the desk, and the heel of my palms on the desktop just under the space bar.

that is exactly what yoou DONT want to do. thats how i have always done it.. you should go buy one of those gel things, but the kind that goes in front of your keyboard. what you said about your wrist sitting on it all the time, thats what you want. if its bent up like that, thats no good.

quote:

I thought carpal tunnel syndrome was that disease when worms live under your skin

haha.. no

ok, the carpal tunnel is a non-flexible sheath that contains all the nerves/etc that go up into your hand. most of these nerves/arteries go up and are in the inside part of your hand (thumb/index finger type area), thats why a symptom of getting it, is pain in that area, but usually not on the other side of your hand with your pinky.

anyways, when you overuse your wrist area etc... it causes the sheath to swell, but it swells inward, restricting the nerves, etc. thats why you get numbness, and (can be) very intense pain. usually when you get to this point, you can try to have it go into remission by not overdoing yourself, letting the swelling go down.. but a lot of people who get this, are people like me who are on computers 24 hours a day, and i wont give up my computer, so itll just keep happening.

so, swamper, having your wrist immobile is a good thing. tahts why those pads are a good deal.. then you arent constantly moving shit around and all. in fact, the wrist braces that im supposed to wear when i type, are for that very reason, they keep my wrist immobile so it doesnt move around at all. and indeed, after i put it on yesterday, after a few hours my arm wasnt numb again. your keyboard should always be below your wrists, not above it. ideally like i said, im pretty sure the ideal angle is 45 degrees. my desk at work is like that and its super comfortable. my fingers are pointed down at the keys, so my wrist isnt bent up in a bad position.

on that same token, dumonde trancer, id be careful, because that numbness can be what im talking about. you should never have your wrists against your desk. could help keep this from happening :/.. often people dont realize symptoms they have which makes it more aggravated.

as far as bein young, i agree, it sucks. BUT my doctor told me she was surprised that i hadnt gotten it already due to my habits. she told me that in actuality, this is common for people in this age range who are always around computers.. or, mechanics, people that do factory work.

ok, so, i need to get one of those gel wrist rest things for my keyboard as well?

so, my keyboard is below my fingers?
i tried one before, it was really uncomfortable and annoying..

but, if it keeps me from getting CTS, then i guess it's worth it.

ah wow i read that wrong.. haha.. i saw the swamper icon but thought he asked that stuff, and not johnsmith... please excuse my dumb mistake

anyways, so johnsmith, yea i recommend the gel wrist thing for your keyboard. i thought it would be uncomfortable but its really not, especially considering what i know its helping to prevent. doesnt really interfere with my fast typing either.

and yea, keyboard should be on the same level (with the wrist pad thing) or below... i know above is comfortable :/ but it helps out not having it up there

hmmm... now i am confused.. i don't see any mistake.. anyway, it doesn't really matter i guess.

thanks for the tip, i guess i will get one of those wrist rest things.. i guess it is worth it.

i sincerly feel empathy for you though, that must really suck.

maybe you can get some insurance money? RSI is covered by workers compensation insurance here, i don't know about the ol US of A.

so, your wrists hurt, a little cash wouldn't help that, but.. it would be nice anyway right?

good luck

quote:

so, swamper, having your wrist immobile is a good thing. tahts why those pads are a good deal.

thats the mistake i meant

oo insurance, hadnt thought about that. ill have to check that out

oic the mistake now.

yeah, you might be able to get insurance. ain't the internet great?

i have been informed that i CAN'T file for insurance UNLESS i use one of those wrist rests for my keyboard. one was offered to me, i refused, i couldn't type as well.

oh well, i guess i have to use on, and be half as productive, for the sake of my health, and also just in case i get it anyway, i at least want to be able to collect some dough for it.

i hope i can still spin though!

wow, this thread is really informative. It's something I never thought about before even though I'm on the computer all day long. Thanks for the advice Sothis.

hmm, yeah thanks for sharing sothis, sorry to hear about your pain

i've just started using the computer virtually all day at school this year doing 3d animation course...tho i prolly spent just as much time on it before at home (like at home 8hrs+, but now more like 14hrs/day)

hmm, yeah there's lots of information about ergonomics around...just hope that everyone knows about it and i think this is a good way to let people learn

microsoft ( hehe) has a quite good guide actually for "healthy computing"

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/ergo/default.asp

there's lots more sites too...but microsoft one is quite concise & informative i think (and has pretty pictures too

we learnt a lot of this stuff in computing studies back in high school...but it isn't until things go wrong that you kinda think about it i guess...prevention is better than cure so many times people say it, but it can save you a lot of trouble!

i've been meaning to get one of those gel pads for a while now...'cos i did notice aches in my hand/wrist after long hours of counterstrike hmm...looks like i will shop for one this weekend now...been looking at the everglide one 'cos i don't need the mouse pad with an optical mouse

anyway, hope this helps some people...take care!

Yes this is a problem that's been known for a while.
Like Miss P said in her post, in Europe its more commonly known as RSI, but that's a generalisation for many types of injury similar to what you have.

I have used computers since 1981 so thats over 20 years (my 1st computer was a Sinclair ZX81 in case u are wondering) but been lucky enough not to have suffered any form of RSI (yet)

As said before, sitting posistion, monitor posistion, desk size etc all play a role, but also as said before there are ways to help lessen the chances of RSI.

A couple of months ago i bought a new keyboard which was designed to combat RSI (see pic)


It has a zero degree tilt making it virtually flat but makes for a better typing posistion, plus a lot of the mouse controls are on it too, meaning i can use my left hand for mouse control on the keyboard or my right hand on the mouse itself.

For more info on the keyboard check HERE

PS: an informative thread for a change so promoted to sticky status for a while

quote:

Originally posted by DuMonde TrAnCeR i can assure you mine get plenty of practice ahem

LOL!


Well my friend got his back injured because he always leaned forwards when he sat at the computer! So now when he walks he seems to lean forward a bit

Mousearms are pretty hyped nowadays! At least here in Sweden! We got a whole website dedicated just for preventing injuries like that!

//DJ_A

quote:

Originally posted by Dj_Activated LOL! Well my friend got his back injured because he always leaned forwards when he sat at the computer! So now when he walks he seems to lean forward a bit //DJ_A

Hey,it's not really appropriate to laugh about your friend being injured and stuff..! It's not even funny! Imagine how is he feeling now and how would u feel if u have been injured and your friends made fun of you! And imagine how sothis is feeling now...
Better feel sorry and be compasionate than not caring and making fun because it didn't happen to you...
Judgment comes!

damn it, that sucks, sothis. i hope you cure soon, caz having that syndrome sucks.

i have one of those keyboard sliding things, so my keyboard sits below my elbows, while they rest on the chair elbow supporters-thingies. i guess that's bad for me.

my mouse is however on my desk, slightly above my elbow. i have one of those gel things and my elbow, too, rests on a chair handle or whatever. it feels pretty comfortable.

hey sothis i'm really sorry to hear about ur injury , and i hope ur gonna cure and feel better very very soon .

when i first read the thread , i tought it was about someone else , but now after reading it a second time i just realised it's about you

once again i feel sorry for you , and thanks trying to prevent us

thanks for all the comments guys

quote:

i have one of those keyboard sliding things, so my keyboard sits below my elbows, while they rest on the chair elbow supporters-thingies

if im picturing this correctly, this is EXACTLY what you want.

ideally your keyboard should be down low (not on the top of your desk), with your hands pointed down towards the keyboard. so i guess it depends on how low that slidy thing is..

Re: my friend and yours, carpal tunnel syndrome

quote:

Originally posted by sothis ... using one of those wrist pads for your keyboard ...

I use that,... without it I'm in pain after 5 min.
I've also tried to use the mouse with my left hand for a while,... it isn't easy man!!! I switch left and right button al the time,...
Hope your pain will stop soon!!

eeepp carpal tunnel at 21..scary man i feel for you...
um can you get carpal from just mouse use.....i have a trackball now and when i use it my elbow is slightly under the level of the mouse, hand resting comfortably though, with fingers on the buttons. my elbow rests on the armrest of my chair.....is this bad for me? i dont really use my keyboard much

Working out

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper It helps if u find time to work out your wrists too 1) Underhand barbell curls.. sit, rest forearm on your leg/knee, hold weight out and curl inwards 2) Same as #1, but not underhand (this one hurts, lol) 3) Those wrist grip things that you squeeze

Ive been working out and droing barbell preacher curls thinking I was working my biceps, but since doing this the paint that used to shoot through my wrist is no more...with regular moments of rest and stretching.

Its funny too since I'm the Office Ergonomics auditor for my office bldg. Soo bad I can't afford a high tech computer desk!

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