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Emotion in Modern EDM

TA's Emo thread! Now, seriously, what do you thing about the affective value of modern electronic dance music? Do you thing that any of today's EDM (and i'm talking about all genres)is capable of eliciting any strong emotional reactions to the individual, or is it all made for the purpose of shaking your ass without much feeling occuring on the inside? Is there any genre that it is more emotional in comparison to others? WAS there any genre that was more "emotional" in comparison to others in the first place?



Now ofcourse, ALL music is capable of eliciting a kind of basic emotional response (even the most basic one) and thats the reason that people dance in the first place.


But, in vast similarity to almost everything, there are magnitudes of emotional experience with all kinds of feelings. You can feel "high" and dance to a funky, upbeat track, but you can also have crackpot thoughts of being one with the universe, having tears of laughter roll down to your cheeks whilst a melody is unleashed through a club's massive soundsystem (or through your headphones). So , i'm talking about really "strong emotional experience" which is of high magnitude.


There were letters of clubbers in '99 describing how they danced and cried at the same time, raising their hands into the air when tracks such as "Synaesthesia" or "Saltwater" were played. I guess that "Trance" was always the most emotional of the lot, right from the start, but i remember myself feeling ecstatic (in trance!) whilst dancing to Daft Punk and other funky house stuff in an ordinary club. I guess it had to do with the repeatetive and filtered joyful melodies of their tracks.



So, modern electronic dance music and emotion. Whats the deal?

Back when I was listening to trance, I remember hearing emotional tracks more often than now when I'm listening to mostly drum'n'bass, breaks and techno. Carte Blanche and Fiji sound emotional to me, for example. Now I just don't hear emotional tracks that often anymore, although exceptions do exist.

Kicking things off, I'll repost something posted in the production forum...

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Man, I'm starting to sound like a broken record (no pun intended) on these forums, but I'll answer this question again. The "main thing about producing" is simple: think about what you're producing. Are you producing a sidechained pad? Are you producing an original synth sound? Are you producing a FLS project file. NO!!!! YOU'RE PRODUCING MUSIC!!!! The sooner you start to comprehend that the primary focus has to be on improving your music composition skills, the sooner you'll start to produce better music. Unfortunately, that concept is lost on most "producers". But, think about it - nobdody is going to buy your records or dance to your songs because they like the threshold settings you used on your compressor, or the fact that you chose a square wave bass sound over a sawtooth. But looking at this and other EDM production forums, those types of topics dominate the boards. Take a look at this forum's topics for yourself and see how many composition-related threads there are - not many. Is it because we're all such great songwriters that we don't need to discuss it? The next time you're at the club and the crowd is going wild for some song, stop and ask the hot chick dancing next to you what she likes about the song - I guarantee you that the answer won't be "it's produced in Logic!" or "the pulse width modulation on that lead synth is totally dope!" She's probably going to say "get away from me, creep" and then tazer your ass, unless she's really drunk, in which case she'd simply say that she likes the melody, she can sing along with it, it's got a good beat and I can dance to it, etc. It's a total cliche, but it can't be stated enough - you can't polish a turd (well, OK, you can try but it's still going to stink). It doesn't matter what synth(s) or DAW you use, how perfectly you can imitate that JP8000 supersaw with your Virus, how you EQ'ed your mid-bass, or which multiband compressor you use to master your tracks - if your melody sucks and your song is 7 minutes of Amin and Fmaj, your song is going to suck and all you'll have is another polished turd that nobody is going to buy or dance to. Yes, your song needs to be technically sound, but more importantly, it needs to have a solid musical foundation (e.g., good melody or hook, dynamics, arrangement, etc.). That's what separates the successful producer from the masses. OK, enough preaching. I've got music to make.

There is rock music that is emotional and moving, and there is rock music that is driving/dancey/"fun".

There is hip-hop that is emotional and moving, and there is hip-hop that is crazy/get drunk/"party" music.

No musical genre inherently relates to a particular emotion... each leaves open room for interpretation and expression.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Kicking things off, I'll repost something posted in the production forum...

Thats a great post from the music production forum, nice. So, would you thing that the majority of modern EDM is only concerned with how to make people to dance in clubs, focusing in this way on production tricks and stuff? (and hence not caring about emotional expression?) Because this is the way i feel for the majority of it.

quote:

Originally posted by david.michael There is rock music that is emotional and moving, and there is rock music that is driving/dancey/"fun". There is hip-hop that is emotional and moving, and there is hip-hop that is crazy/get drunk/"party" music. No musical genre inherently relates to a particular emotion... each leaves open room for interpretation and expression.

So what is the modern EDM that is "emotional and moving" and not just "driving/dancey/"fun"? Because, honestly, its getting very difficult to find it.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN So what is the modern EDM that is "emotional and moving" and not just "driving/dancey/"fun"? Because, honestly, its getting very difficult to find it.

That's going to be pretty difficult to answer, honestly, since it's all relative to the listener.

it is very very difficult to find

I mean take work from the 90s like

FUSE - Dimension Intrusion (whole album)
Jam & Spoon - Stella
Aztec Mystic - Knights of the Jaguar
Ricardo Villalobos - 808 The Bassqueen


to name a very limited and random few


When I get home I'll post a more complete list of contemporary emotional dance music (FOR ME)

i find emotion mostly in dub techno, detroit techno and deep house.

Sunshine Jones - We Are Free (Sunshine's Soul Mix) [King Street]
Quantec - Hidden Persuasion [Statik Entertainment]
Redshape - Pain (Original Mix) [Styrax Leaves]
Urban Force - Untitled 2 (Mike Huckaby Remix)
Substance & Vainqueur - Resonance [Scion Versions]
Substance & Vainqueur - Libration [Scion Versions]
Maurizio - M Series [Maurizio]
Mari Boine - Vuoi Vuoi Me (Henrik Schwarz Remix) [Universal Jazz]
Sui Generis - Remarkable (Original Mix) [Rush Hour]
Nick Hoppner - Violet (Original Mix) [Ostgut Ton]
Prosumer & Murat Tepeli - Devotion (Original Mix) [Ostgut Ton]
Move D - Silk Dub (Original Mix) [Compost]
Felix Laband - Whistling In Tongues (Todd Terje Remix) [Compost]
Studio - Indo (Original Mix) [Information]
Swell Session - All Of Me (Charles Webster Remix) [Freerange]
Swell Session - The Girl [Freerange]
Force Of Nature - Supernova (Original Mix) [Mule Musiq]
Kuniyuki - Earth Beats (Original Mix) [Mule Musiq]
Vince Watson - Long Way From Home (Original Mix) [Delsin]
Vince Watson - Fragment 7 (Original Mix) [Delsin]
Vince Watson - Solitude (Original Mix) [Delsin]
Quince - Vitjazzdepth (Original Mix) [Delsin]
Quince - Sub-01 (Original Mix) [Delsin]
Quince - For My Mr (Original Mix) [Delsin]

to name a few



When I make music, my point of departure is always the core emotional or philosophical content. I can't and don't expect that it will be legible in the final product, because I'm not nearly good enough at expressing myself this way (getting better I think), but I think any time you really put a piece of your soul in it, people can tell. I usually make simple loops based on an static emotion as a kind of meditation/groove, then elaborate that and establish a direction for it that will suggest a composition.

Technical craft for me comes with experience. I learn more and more how to make higher quality and more interesting sounds and mixes, but it always is corollary to the basic concept of the track.

I blame digital.

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews I blame digital.

For reals?

Re: Emotion in Modern EDM

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN ...but i remember myself feeling ecstatic (in trance!) whilst dancing to Daft Punk and other funky house stuff in an ordinary club. I guess it had to do with the repeatetive and filtered joyful melodies of their tracks.

Yeah, I saw Deadbeat few weeks ago, and I've never danced like that to music like I did to his dub/dubby techno. He almost put me into a hypnotic state; something trance has never managed.

deadbeat is great, a big inspiration right now


I suggest everyone listen to:

Deadbeat - Live @ Space Lab Yellow Tokyo 08.2005

Download


I also find Ame, Move D, Trickski sets to be often emotional. And of course, Francois K and Carl Craig

Re: Emotion in Modern EDM

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN There were letters of clubbers in '99 describing how they danced and cried at the same time, raising their hands into the air when tracks such as "Synaesthesia" or "Saltwater" were played. I guess that "Trance" was always the most emotional of the lot, right from the start,

I disagree. The idea that "trance" is the most emotional is most likely due to how shallow and obvious it was post-96. It's like saying shitty pop bands like Simple Plan were more emotional than the works of Miles Davis because the latter didn't have any whiney self-centered spoiled-brat lyrics about how life isn't fair and you don't know what it's like to be like me.

Re: Emotion in Modern EDM

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Do you thing that any of today's EDM (and i'm talking about all genres)is capable of eliciting any strong emotional reactions to the individual, or is it all made for the purpose of shaking your ass without much feeling occuring on the inside?

Real dancemusic should drain your head from emotion and thought, just like passive meditation will let you focus on the 'nothing'.
That itself can be the 'emotional reactions' you are talking about, but in a different way.

That's how i feel and that's always the way that works best for me.
No emotional breaks/melodies (or vocals!) that demands your attention.



But much lies within the eyes (ears) of the beholder, i'm sure you can get 'lost' in Ti�sto's latest stuff if you tried real hard

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles For reals?

Well... partially. I find analog sounds warmer. Nothing sounds more human than a broken synthesizer

Music made exclusively by using digital may sound a bit sterile. Even dj sets sound better to me when they have that vinyl crackle running in the background.

There needs to be more love for imperfection.

Speaking of Deadbeat, Loneliness and Revelry ftw.

Emotion is thoroughly out of style. Which isn't to say people don't like it or search for it.

Let me use an example. I'm currently reviewing Dave Seaman's new Renaissance mix- the Masters Series Part 10. Listening to it, I found myself comparing it to Seaman's old mixes for Renaissance, such as the Mix Collection Part 4 in 1997, as Dave's stated intention was to encapsulate the current sound of progressive house, where as the 1997 Mix Collection did just the same for 11 years ago. My basic conclusion was that prog house has lost a lot of energy and a lot of emotional overtness, particularly in the last few years, as it tries to lose its image of music for the 90s and stay relevant.

However, checking out the Resident Advisor review of the same record, I read this:

"...Seaman evaporates the goodwill he�s built up by moving into the big room with a string of peak hour builders so cheesy and melodically overblown that you�ll wonder if you�ve been teleported back to the late 1990s."

To me, a self-confessed fan of the 90s progressive sound, this new mix was the sound of prog trying to cut itself down to a more sparse, reserved sound. However, to the trend-following RA guys, it's "cheesy" and "melodically overblown" simply by being prog house. I mean, the peak-time tunes we're talking about here are typified by the use of Who Killed Sparky? by Sasha, which I'm sure everyone is familiar with. Compared with what Sasha was making and playing in the late 90s, this could not be called "cheesy" and especially not "overblown".

RA conclude their review with this damning judgement:

"In the end, The Masters Series 10 sounds like little more than a repackaged late 90s Global Underground mix or any of the numerous others Dave Seaman has already done for Renaissance in the past."

And there it is. Its emotional content automatically render it dated and interchangable with the music of the 90s. Emotion is not cool, it isn't forward-thinking and it isn't edgy.

I blame the Internet.

I think the most emotional dance music provokes emotions you already have rather than attempt to force their own upon you.

There is a lot of dance music that presents emotion in a very roundabout way, like trance music that uses classical melodies and fake string sounds, obvious breakdowns, huge buildups, vocals, etc... that's really easy for most people to get into because it is a sort of social sign for emotion


what i am interested is more a basic emotional response in the guts, visceral, one which is arrived at and intuited rather than adopted or mimicked. (everyone reach for the lasers!)

For me this basic emotional response is instinctive, unconscious.


I don't listen to music to change my mood. I change my music to fit my mood. I drown myself in it.

related to drowning and to what i find emotionally/spiritually important in dance music are these words from mircea elidade's "the sacred and the profane"

quote:

The waters symbolize the universal sum of virtualities; they are spring and origin' the reservoir of all the possibilities of existence; they precede every form and support every creation. One of the paradigmatic images of creation is the island that suddenly manifests itself in the midst of the waves. On the other hand, immersion in water signifies regression to the preformal, reincorporation into the undifferentiated mode of pre-existence. Emersion repeats the cosmogenic act of formal manifestation; immersion is equivalent to a dissolution of forms. This is why the symbolism of the waters implies both death and rebirth. Contact with water always brings a regeneration... The aquatic cosmonlogy has its counterpart - on the human level - in the hylogenies, the beliefs according to which mankind was born of the waters. The Flood, or the periodical submersion of the continents (myths of the atlantis type) have their counteraprt on the human level, in man's second death, or in initiatory death through baptism. But both on the cosmological and the anthropological planes immersion in the waters is equivalent not to a final extinction, but to a temporary reincorporation into the indistinct, followed by a new creation, a new life... In whatever religious complex we find them, the waters invariably retain their function; they disintegrate, abolish forms, 'wash away sins'; they are at once purifying and regenerating. their destiny is to precede the creation and to reabsorb it...

I find this immersive quality in dub techno and deep house for instance, or the thickly layered, undulating formlessness that is detroit techno. It provides a return to a basic emotionally mutable state (the water). a 'framework for freedom'. In the midst of this sea of possibility, emotions surface and take form

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Emotion is not cool, it isn't forward-thinking and it isn't edgy.

I don't think that's true across the board. I think our emotions have changed.

But there are some things in my opinion that are basically emotional that are undeniable.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec I don't think that's true across the board. I think our emotions have changed.

You think our emotions have changed in less than a decade? I don't accept that for a second. I think the dominant attitudes towards emotion in our sub-culture have changed, and most people will swallow the ideological myths around this shift, re-aligning themselves to the new ideology. Superlatives of beauty, emotion and cheese are being used all out of proportion today, usually by the people who have accepted the aesthetic upheaval of recent years without being critical of it.

quote:

Originally posted by paulandrews Music made exclusively by using digital may sound a bit sterile. Even dj sets sound better to me when they have that vinyl crackle running in the background. There needs to be more love for imperfection.

+1, couldnt agree more.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J And there it is. Its emotional content automatically render it dated and interchangable with the music of the 90s. Emotion is not cool, it isn't forward-thinking and it isn't edgy.

I think this is quite relative. One man's cheesy is another one's soulless garbage. I'd say there is no place for big catchy hooks.

Try to listen to this, it's something that's considered 'cool' now, even on RA: http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF305184-01-01-01.mp3
The emotions are there, they are just more subtle.

Mathew Jonson - Symphony For The Apocalypse

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