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A true noob question

Okay, I'm a classical pianist by training.

I want to begin producing dance music, especially Trance.

I asked a question about what a Trance track consists of, and I got some very thorough, thoughtful answers.

But I have a vocabulary problem.

WTF is a "breakdown"??

lol

Re: A true noob question

quote:

Originally posted by dragontrance Okay, I'm a classical pianist by training. I want to begin producing dance music, especially Trance. I asked a question about what a Trance track consists of, and I got some very thorough, thoughtful answers. But I have a vocabulary problem. WTF is a "breakdown"??

Why didn't you just ask it in the thread you already started?

If you review that thread, you'll see pictures of wav forms that highlight the breakdown.

Even worse, he even said the breakdowns were highlighted...

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle There are really NO rules here. It all depens on what kind of trance track you are going to make, here are three Trance tracks, with main part breakdowns colored yellow, you`ll notice the timing and length of the break is different on all of them. Be creative, do what feels natural for you.

quote:

Why didn't you just ask it in the thread you already started?

Because the other thread was about the structure of a Trance piece. This thread is about the definition of a word. It was off-topic and not appropriate to that thread.

If you will revisit my response to the example posted, you'll see.

Just because you say "this is a breakdown" and play me one, it doesn't mean that I know what one is.

Try this: What does the fkn word mean?

What is a breakdown? I have heard them, but what is it? How do you make it?

I mean, really, guys, c'mon. Is this REALLY rocket science?

quote:

Originally posted by dragontrance Because the other thread was about the structure of a Trance piece. This thread is about the definition of a word. It was off-topic and not appropriate to that thread. If you will revisit my response to the example posted, you'll see. Just because you say "this is a breakdown" and play me one, it doesn't mean that I know what one is. Try this: What does the fkn word mean? What is a breakdown? I have heard them, but what is it? How do you make it? I mean, really, guys, c'mon. Is this REALLY rocket science?

It means look at the fucking wav file, then listen to a song, then figure it out.

And no, it's not rocket science, which is why I can't for the life of me figure out why the fuck you keep asking the same dumb ass question when you can look at the wav file, listen to a couple cd's, then figure it out. As the wav file shows, there's no formula so people can't tell you how to "make one."

And now I see you took the other thread in the same direction. So much for being off topic and not appropriate.

In the context of mainstream anthem trance, a "breakdown" is where most of the percussive sounds, especially the kick, are absent for around one to three minutes while the melodic sounds build some kind of tension. Most of the time in "anthem" trance, the "tension" will be created simply by raising the cutoff frequency of the filters on the main melody and pad sounds, introducing lots of high frequencies into the track. When the filter cutoff is at its highest, the breakdown is ended by bringing all of the percussion back in at full force.

If you don't know what a cutoff frequency is, just Google "lowpass filter audio" or something similar and start reading up.

Hey Ray:

I appreciate that the written language isn't exactly your strong suit.

If you don't understand the question I'm asking then maybe you should just shut the fuck up.

If you'll read back a little (again, not your strong suit apparently) you'll see that I've been listening to this music for years!

I don't learn by just listening. I don't believe you do either.

Since you're so fuckin smart, you must be rich with all your crazy success in the music biz, no?

MrJiveBoJingles:

Thanks very much.

I know my questions are really noob-ish. What can I say, I'm a true newbie.

Thanks for your patience and for your great answers.

quote:

Originally posted by dragontrance Hey Ray: I appreciate that the written language isn't exactly your strong suit. If you don't understand the question I'm asking then maybe you should just shut the fuck up. If you'll read back a little (again, not your strong suit apparently) you'll see that I've been listening to this music for years! I don't learn by just listening. I don't believe you do either. Since you're so fuckin smart, you must be rich with all your crazy success in the music biz, no?

Indeed, I am a poor, ignorant bastard with nothing to show for myself except the fact that I know what a "breakdown" is and how comical the other thread you started became in the last couple of posts. I'm empty. And will shut up now.

quote:

Originally posted by dragontrance I don't learn by just listening. I don't believe you do either.

There is really no other way.

Listen - Analyze - Recreate - Then create your own.

What most Trance productions has in common is

1. 4/4 Time signature with 4 kicks in each bar, building in 8 Bar blocks (Because then every tune will be possible for a DJ to mix together with another tune)
2. A melody most often written in a Minor scale.
3. A tempo between 125-150 BPM
4. Repetetive Closed and Open Hat patterns with one clap or snare on every 2nd kick.
5. 1-2 minute intro and outtro (Or its a pain in the ass for DJs)

Other than that, you`re free to do whatever you want.
Thats the beauty of EDM, now you can add a Drum`n`bass loop in the break, sample an Elvis tune and put a flanger effect on it, let ur mama sing some chants, or you can record cars drives by for the sake of it.

quote:

Listen - Analyze - Recreate - Then create your own.

That's not *JUST listening*.

I get what you're saying, and I agree 100%. The analysis bit is only possible when you understand what you're hearing, wouldn't you agree?

Seems to me that if you have, at least, a basic understanding of what the contituent parts are of a song, then you'll have an easier time creating one.

If you just listen and imitate, I can see where it would take years and years and years, and maybe you develop an artistic voice, maybe you don't.

Thanks, everyone.

Yep, Ray, you just got me pegged spot on, don't you.

I bet you were the kind of guy who flunked out of math because that stupid teacher just didn't know what the hell she was talkin' about, weren't ya'.

quote:

Originally posted by dragontrance That's not *JUST listening*. I get what you're saying, and I agree 100%. The analysis bit is only possible when you understand what you're hearing, wouldn't you agree? Seems to me that if you have, at least, a basic understanding of what the contituent parts are of a song, then you'll have an easier time creating one. If you just listen and imitate, I can see where it would take years and years and years, and maybe you develop an artistic voice, maybe you don't. Thanks, everyone.

To make music, you have to MAKE music.

The more you make, the more you try, the more you understand and the better you get.

And it will take years to develop a good ear for sounds that doesnt fit, sounds that are missing. etc.

I would say that the one of the most important skill you can ever have, is the skill to judge wether to keep or ditch a sound, and when to know if a sound is missing.
And that comes with experience.
Music is an art, thats not meant to be understood properly, very important to remember that.

The best ideas and tracks comes from accidents.

Well said!

quote:

Originally posted by dragontrance Yep, Ray, you just got me pegged spot on, don't you. I bet you were the kind of guy who flunked out of math because that stupid teacher just didn't know what the hell she was talkin' about, weren't ya'.

If you knew me at all you'd be aware of how ridiculous the criticisms regarding my financial situation and math skills are. In all seriousness, the banter is obviously unconstructive, both ways... partly my fault.

I still believe dropping a track in a sequencer to visually analyze what you are hearing is helpful. Take a couple passes at a track you know well - one you've heard a hundred times - and listen to every minor detail, then take another pass and watch what you're listening to. Use a similar view to what is posted above and you'll see some of structural changes as the song progresses and hear what that means simultaneously.

Another suggestion is to try and remake a track - not necessarily for release or anything, but just for practice. If you try and remake the track from scratch, it will provide some useful experience in tweaking synths, getting a structure, and if you end up with something comparible, it will allow you to see the track as a whole. And if not, it may help you see what you are missing. Remaking a track is harder than it may seem at first, depending on the tools you have available, but it can be a worthwhile experience.

Goodluck.

quote:

If you knew me at all you'd be aware of how ridiculous the criticisms regarding my financial situation and math skills are.

Ray, I'm sure you're right. I don't know you, and all I had to go on were your comments. I agree, it's unconstructive and we could have started better. Thank you for being cool about it, and I apologize for the harshness of my tone as well.

quote:

I still believe dropping a track in a sequencer to visually analyze what you are hearing is helpful. Take a couple passes at a track you know well - one you've heard a hundred times - and listen to every minor detail, then take another pass and watch what you're listening to. Use a similar view to what is posted above and you'll see some of structural changes as the song progresses and hear what that means simultaneously.

Ray, that sounds like really good advice. Thanks very much. It wasn't at all clear to me that that's what you were referring to. I apologize, I misunderstood your meaning.

Did I mention I'm new to this? :-)

I've been using FL Studio for about a year now and I clearly have a lot to learn. That's why I'm here, after all. I didn't even know you could download other people's songs in a format that you can load into a sequencer. Yeah, that would be very useful, I totally see that now. Thanks for telling me about that.

I've been a fan of Trance and EDM for years, but I truly had no idea how to go about creating it. I had never heard of a step sequencer until a couple of years ago. The only sequencers I knew about were the kind you connect to a keyboard that just captured your midi inputs and played them back. I assumed that EDM Producers were actually playing every one of those notes directly into a sequencer and going from there. I didn't know about looping, sampling, wave synthesis, intros, outros, and breakdowns.

I learn a lot by reading, but there comes a point, as Subtle said, that you have to learn by DOING. That's where I am now.

So what I need to be doing is finding songs that I can open in FL Studio or Cubase and analyzing them in the sequencer, yes?

Here's another newbie question, don't freak or nothin', but where do you find songs by the likes of PVD or Tiesto in a format that you can anazlyze in this way?

Dragon

You should be able to find all the tracks you want at Beatport.com. You can get them online, download them in mp3 or wav format, and drop them as a new track in FL. What you are seeing in the pic above is that... it's a few tracks that have been dropped into a sequencer in their entirety. When you zoom out to see the full track you'll see the peaks, breakdowns, buildups, and it's easy to keep looping a particular section to hear what's going on.

If you do decide to remake a track, or even start building a structure around another song, just keep the track in your song (muted) and you can use it to reference easily.

Hope that helps.

Very cool!

Thanks, Ray!

quote:

Originally posted by dragontrance Very cool! Thanks, Ray!

Much better
Take it easy guys its just music

quote:

Originally posted by Khayat Much better Take it easy guys its just music

Well said.

quote:

Originally posted by dragontrance Very cool! Thanks, Ray!

No problem. Glad I could redeem myself and provide something useful.

What a thread.
Alright, I have a guess... I'm thinking the big disconnect here is he has not seen music in the visual format presented by a .WAV editor, the time/amplitude look that we're so used to seeing.

dragontrance, you'll want to get your hands on a a .wav file editor. .wav file format is the uncompressed audio file format that holds highest common sonic fidelity. When you use samples in a DAW or a sampler, typically it is playing back .wav files. The pictures shown above are what .wav files look like when you load them into a .wav editor, but zoomed WAY out. When you zoom in, it appears as a complex logarithmic waveform. The wider & rounder the wave, usually the more bass frequencies you'll hear if you played it. Brief, jagged waveforms typically represent high frequency components. Things like high hats and vocals and lead synthesizers.

Running horizontally in the middle of a panel is a straight line which represents the X axis. The X axis represents time.
Running vertically is the Y axis, which represents amplitude. Amplitude runs upwards and downwards, from the X axis.

Roughly, the thinner the blue waveform is along the x axis, the less things are going on in the music, especially low frequencies. It's (sort of) quieter. So in the yellow highlighted areas, thats why it's smaller than the other parts - no drums, other musical pieces drop out. Less total amplitude in the song. In dance music, this is synonymous with the breakdown - It's components are being taken out, pieces are falling off, fading out.

Someone hook this kid up with SoundForge or CoolEdit or whatever you folks are using these days.

He can just download Audacity for free...

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles He can just download Audacity for free...

The people who want all the answers right away usually are the type who will get all through programs for free through a torrent

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