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Posted by Silky Johnson on May-21-2008 12:55:

Haha, God.

In an abortion thread in TOTA, some girl said that God creates everyone and everything, and I said "That's debatable."

Hopefully it turns into a shit storm of people attacking others' beliefs.

Posted by david.michael on May-21-2008 12:57:

You're wrong!

Um..... :: points ::

Did I do it right?

Posted by Meat187 on May-21-2008 12:57:

So... you made a thread about a thread?!
Way to go, woman!

Posted by XaNaX on May-21-2008 12:58:

I'm on my way there to stir up trouble

Posted by Silky Johnson on May-21-2008 13:03:

quote:
Originally posted by Meat187
So... you made a thread about a thread?!
Way to go, woman!

That's right. I'm not ashamed!

Posted by Rook on May-21-2008 18:52:

so what do you believe?? that he created everything or not??

its either one or the other isn't it?

Posted by bananas on May-21-2008 18:53:

link or stfu bitch

Posted by Moral Hazard on May-21-2008 19:07:

quote:
Originally posted by Rook
so what do you believe?? that he created everything or not??

its either one or the other isn't it?

Is your position that god created everything or he/it created nothing at all? I would view this as too simplistic.

Posted by mezzir on May-21-2008 19:18:

Re: Haha, God.

quote:
Originally posted by jennypie
In an abortion thread in TOTA, some girl said that God creates everyone and everything, and I said "That's debatable."

Hopefully it turns into a shit storm of people attacking others' beliefs.

bah
shoulda asked who created god then

Posted by Lira on May-21-2008 19:21:

Re: Re: Haha, God.

quote:
Originally posted by mezzir
bah
shoulda asked who created god then

Not really, theists could easily mention the argument from first cause and the discussion would get way too complicated for most people to join

Posted by Rook on May-21-2008 19:23:

quote:
Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Is your position that god created everything or he/it created nothing at all? I would view this as too simplistic.

i used to believe in evolution. however, recently i had a close relative pass away and have started to see thnigs from a different perspective. i have started to do more research about god and his creations, and tbh honest everything he states in the bible and especially what he reveals in the quran seems to check out.

my question is what part of it is debatable..?? its either he did or didnt.

Posted by hooknife on May-21-2008 19:23:

Re: Haha, God.

Posted by Rook on May-21-2008 19:26:

Re: Re: Haha, God.

quote:
Originally posted by hooknife
I'll take it a step further and say stupid weak people beleive in god.

lol. are you serious??

Posted by Lira on May-21-2008 19:27:

What has evolution got to do with all this?
Are you implying that there are just two possibilities?

quote:

Originally posted by hooknife
I'll take it a step further and say stupid weak people beleive in god.

I`m sorry, but that`s simply not true... and this is coming from an agnostic, so it`s not like I`m trying to defend myself or anything.

Posted by bananas on May-21-2008 19:27:

Re: Re: Re: Haha, God.

quote:
Originally posted by Rook
lol. are you serious??

are you?

Posted by Lira on May-21-2008 19:28:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Haha, God.

Oh, great, now Jenny's mess spilled all the way to the CORe

Posted by bananas on May-21-2008 19:30:

Posted by Rook on May-21-2008 19:30:

quote:
Originally posted by Lira

Are you implying that there are just two possibilities?

isnt that what it boils down to.??

Posted by RJT on May-21-2008 19:31:

Posted by Moral Hazard on May-21-2008 19:33:

quote:
Originally posted by Rook
i used to believe in evolution. however, recently i had a close relative pass away and have started to see thnigs from a different perspective. i have started to do more research about god and his creations, and tbh honest everything he states in the bible and especially what he reveals in the quran seems to check out.

my question is what part of it is debatable..?? its either he did or didnt.

Is it not possible, perhaps even probable that if God exists and is responsible for creation that god mearly laid the groundwork for a self-perpetuating universe? Given that man, presumably all higher forms of life are endowed with free will then it seems logical that god would not take an active role in the procreation of living beings as that would run contrary to free will. Broadening out to a cosmological view, is it not more likely that god would have stepped back after creating the forces and materials that would later create the universe, as once those were in place the rest kind of takes care of itself. In this sense God would have made the creation of every thing possible but not have actively created anything beyond the initial stages of existance.

Posted by Moral Hazard on May-21-2008 19:35:

quote:
Originally posted by Rook
i have started to do more research about god and his creations, and tbh honest everything he states in the bible and especially what he reveals in the quran seems to check out.

I'm not belittling you here, I took a rather lengthy journey of discovery (hell, I'm still on it), but I have to ask - how do you reconsile that there are very key points that the bible and the Qu'ran are at odds on? They cannot both be correct on all counts.

Posted by Rook on May-21-2008 19:35:

quote:
Originally posted by RJT
This is one of the more hilarious posts in recent memory.

you must have a bad memory.

Posted by Scottaculous on May-21-2008 19:41:

h Gd

Posted by Lira on May-21-2008 19:41:

quote:
Originally posted by Rook
isnt that what it boils down to.??

Of course not! And, for that matter, none of this has anything to do with evolution.

Posted by RJT on May-21-2008 19:43:

quote:
Originally posted by Rook
you must have a bad memory.

No, it was genuinely hilarious. I have a tendency to laugh anytime anyone says something in any religious text "checks out."

quote:
Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Is it not possible, perhaps even probable that if God exists and is responsible for creation that god mearly laid the groundwork for a self-perpetuating universe? Given that man, presumably all higher forms of life are endowed with free will then it seems logical that god would not take an active role in the procreation of living beings as that would run contrary to free will. Broadening out to a cosmological view, is it not more likely that god would have stepped back after creating the forces and materials that would later create the universe, as once those were in place the rest kind of takes care of itself. In this sense God would have made the creation of every thing possible but not have actively created anything beyond the initial stages of existance.

Just for fun, let's run with this for a minute. You and I both know that any kind of position on God and creation requires a few blanket or foundational assumptions, and unless I'm wrong, what you've stated above hinges on the assumption that our will is free.

Given that assumption, which of the so-called "omni-3's" are you willing to sacrifice to allow for God to exist compatibly with free will? In order for our will to be free, we've got to have the right to choose, if we have the right to choose, God cannot be omniscient as he cannot possibly know what we will choose given that our will is free. His omnipotence also seems to come into question, albeit on the much weaker argument that for our will to be free, he cannot guide our action - thus removing the quality of his being "all powerful.'

Not trying to pick on you at all Craig, the problem of free will isn't something anyone has come to consensus on, and there are obviously countless ways in which various theists have resolved it for themselves, I'm just curious how you do.

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